Poser sold to Rendo

[Miss B]

OK, I just took a look at Stardock's products, and Start10 would be the only one I'd be interested in, so I'm glad to see there's software to recreate how I prefer to work. I don't have my apps listed alphabetically, but more in groups, such as my usual 2D apps, and then my 3D apps, and then a couple/three games at the bottom of the list.

For those I don't use that often, I use the All Programs link at the bottom, and those are all set up in groups as well, so I never have a problem finding what I need quickly. It's how I had my Start Menu set up with WinXP, so I've been so used to this setup, I wouldn't do well with any other.

 

[Janet]

Now THAT is encouraging, because that's how my Win7Pro is set up. I HATE having more than a handful of icons along the bottom of my desktop, and those aren't ones I use all the time, other than the Recyle Bin. I prefer having any one of a number of 3D renders I've done, or downloaded, as my desktop.

I had heard there was a way to set up the Win10 Start menu like the Win7 Start menu, so if that's actually possible, I might not mind it. What makes me cringe is the Microsoft Surface look, which is how Win10 started out, and one of the reasons I hate the Opera browser, as that's how it's Start Page is set up. It doesn't allow you to set your own Start Page as Firefox does.

I just asked my son about Windows 7 and he said it's going to lose support in a few months and will be hacked immediately.

 

[Miss B]

Yes, I believe the beginning of 2020 is when they'll stop support.

 

[Hornet3d]

Yes, I believe the beginning of 2020 is when they'll stop support.

#

January 14th 2020 is the exact date so almost at the very beginning of 2020.

 

[Semicharm]

OK, I just took a look at Stardock's products, and Start10 would be the only one I'd be interested in, so I'm glad to see there's software to recreate how I prefer to work. I don't have my apps listed alphabetically, but more in groups, such as my usual 2D apps, and then my 3D apps, and then a couple/three games at the bottom of the list.

For those I don't use that often, I use the All Programs link at the bottom, and those are all set up in groups as well, so I never have a problem finding what I need quickly. It's how I had my Start Menu set up with WinXP, so I've been so used to this setup, I wouldn't do well with any other.

The apps list in Win10 is shortcuts and folders that can be changed and reorganized, just like every version of the start menu. However, it's not quite as easy to manage. There's no drag-drop support anymore, so you'll have to manually create folders and move the shortcuts yourself.

These files are in the same place as Win7. Apps installed for "all users" are in
%AllUsersProfile%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

and user apps are in
%AppData%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

Win10 also has a new app format that buries it's files in the system, so I'm not sure where those shortcuts are hiding.

To get direct access to these hidden folders, just copy and paste the path into the start menu. It'll load File Explorer with the correct location for you. Then, just create the new folders you want, such as 3D or Utilities, and move the shortcuts to the new locations. When you're done, you can delete the empty folders or other useless cruft. Keep in mind, however, that anything in the folder for "all users" will effect all users. There's two other caveats.

1) You can't have nested folders. They won't show up and all of the shortcuts in them will be listed in the parent folder. (Anyone who remembers Win3.1 will understand what a pain that is. However, too many companies needlessly abused nested folders, so Microsoft simply did away with them.)

2) You can't move Win10 apps. They're stuck where they are.

 

[Miss B]

The apps list in Win10 is shortcuts and folders that can be changed and reorganized, just like every version of the start menu. However, it's not quite as easy to manage. There's no drag-drop support anymore, so you'll have to manually create folders and move the shortcuts yourself.

I've been doing that since I found the folder Win7 had them in to start with. I don't like dragging and dropping shortcuts into the Start Menu.

 

[Semicharm]

I've been doing that since I found the folder Win7 had them in to start with. I don't like dragging and dropping shortcuts into the Start Menu.

There's two folders. And now wherever Win10 puts it's apps.

 

[Miss B]

I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Mythocentric]

This thread appeared in the Official Poser thread over on Rendo on Sunday:

Has your Poser stopped working? License issues? Can't start Poser?

To be honest I don't know what to make of it because judging by the thread title someones been ignoring the hundreds of posts already made concerning this or the moderators in charge of the threads are not reporting the concerns raised by many people, particularly about the license issues. One the other hand we have been variously told by one moderator that, 'the answer to that is above his pay grade', or 'it (the license issues) turned out to be harder than it looked!' closely followed by 'it might be different in the next version of Poser!' Interestingly, no ones bothered to respond so far so if you have anything to say please go along and make your feelings known while someone appears to be listening at last!

 

[eclark1894]

Actually, several people were pretty much asking the same questions about their Poser not working, so I assume Jenn made a Sticky with that title to answer everyone's questions. It points towards the update download and an article that answers most people's questions.

 

[Ken1171]

To be honest I don't know what to make of it because judging by the thread title someones been ignoring the hundreds of posts already made concerning this or the moderators in charge of the threads are not reporting the concerns raised by many people, particularly about the license issues.

This is the same old that was already going on at the SMS forums for years - where people were asking for Genesis support in Poser. SMS had promptly replied claiming that would never happen unless DAZ wanted it to, but people kept re-posting the same question for years to come - as if it was never answered. I remember replying to many of these questions myself - but do people ever read it? I guess some things never change.

 

[Miss B]

I suspect they figured if they keep inundating the forums with the same question, SM, and now Bondware, would get in touch with DAZ about making it happen.

Why they don't realize DAZ isn't interested, and never will be, stumps me every time I see a similar post. Genesis is DAZ's proprietary creation for their proprietary software, and why they would want to make it available in a competitor's software is something I could never wrap my head around. The folks who keep posting about this just don't consider this. All they know is they want it, and that's all there is to it.

 

[Hornet3d]

Well in the Poser 11 Technical forum there are about 10 threads that are related to updating or activation issues. Titles like 'Activation', Poser 11.2.272, 'Poser 11 upgrade' and 'Poser 11.2 will not activate' are a few but there are many more. With slight variations they tend to cover very similar topics but that does not seem to stop new threads being added to cover yet another aspect of the same issue. There are some complaining they have been robbed of Game Dev, or being forced to upgrade when they don't want to. Now I can understand maybe that a vendor would see this as a issue but for most users they have a version of Poser that gives them all of the Game Dev features plus those of Poser 11 Pro with a lot of free content but somehow they have been cheated. There is also a lot of animosity towards Rendo for the activation farce, a farce that many Poser users predicted when the feature was discovered. Those that know the history and put the blame purely at the door of SM seem to be ignored.

The real issue here though are those users who do have genuine problems whose complaints might get lost in all the dross or the extra effort support people are having to put in just repeating the same old answers. We don't know, and never will, the exact terms of the sale of Poser, SM does not care and Rendo/Bondware are hardly likely to stir up a hornets nest by making any terms public. They seem to be doing their best and some things like giving people a working copy of Game Dev seem either impossible or would require an immense amount to work just to keep an old, and only seemingly loved by a few, version running. Not really fair when they have already stated they wanted to concentrate on an single version and they have already offered for free a solution that would appear to be acceptable to many users. It has not always been the case but on this occasion I am certainly supportive of what Rendo have done and I little support for some Poser users and that saddens me.

One final point, whatever the issue, threatening to take your bat away and not play is not a good strategy to get any issue resolved. Words along the line of ' Well I have had it with Poser, DS for me all the way now', may make someone fell better but to most support people is suggests they now no longer need to deal with the issue because the complainant is no longer looking for a resolution.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

It's possible in some cases they never were looking for a resolution.

One final point, whatever the issue, threatening to take your bat away and not play is not a good strategy to get any issue resolved. Words along the line of ' Well I have had it with Poser, DS for me all the way now', may make someone fell better but to most support people is suggests they now no longer need to deal with the issue because the complainant is no longer looking for a resolution.

Maybe I'm jaded or just so tired of all the hate Poser gets. But, I sometimes wonder if some of the most vicious complaints are from people who don't actually use Poser but just want to keep everyone riled up.

I'm always amazed when someone says something along the lines of ... well, I have had it with Poser, DS for me all the way now! I mean ... seriously? Why does someone continue to spend money on Poser if they believe another application is better? Of course, if they are still using Game Dev, that means they haven't upgraded for some years. And ... well. I'd never compare Game Dev to the current version of DS. That's like comparing Red Delicious apples to Cara Cara oranges. Yucko. But then, I don't get the appeal of Red Delicious apples. They aren't. Fuji all the way for me. None of that Honeycrisp nonsense either. Tried them (a four pack), and didn't find them all that amazing. And CERTAINLY not worth the expensive price!

Anyway ... back to the computer world ...

Don't like Adobe? There are other options. It's not like Adobe is going to listen to a hobbyist/non professional when it's professional software. Don't like Smith Micro (or now Bondware)? Again ... there are other options. Some far more expensive than Poser and others far less expensive ... and even free. (I don't think Smith Micro ever got the hobbyist/non professional usage of Poser.) For that matter, no one is even tied to an operating system anymore. Don't like Microsoft, then use Apple or Linex. Don't like Microsoft, Apple, or Linex, well ... there's always an abacus! Or ... gasp! Paper and Pen/Pencil.

Although, to be honest, I'd hate being dependent again on paper and pencil. Fortunately, I can still use paper and pencil, but there are many people who because of arthritis or other medical conditions are no longer able to hold a pencil or pen comfortably or painlessly. There are also many of us who without a computer would live a rather dull and boring life. Think of all the trolls who would be without an outlet with no internet!

We have FAR more advantages and options than we did 20+ years ago. Why continue to use an application that doesn't fit your needs? Or profit a company you hate.

 

[Miss B]

Maybe I'm jaded or just so tired of all the hate Poser gets. But, I sometimes wonder if some of the most vicious complaints are from people who don't actually use Poser but just want to keep everyone riled up.

AB-SO-LUTE-LY!!!

Sorry, didn't mean to shout, but that's exactly what about 75%-80% of complaints are comprised of. There have been legitimate complaints by folks who couldn't get it to install properly, but once they were informed of a better way to do it than they had done the first time around, they were happy campers again. Unfortunately, those sort of threads in the forums are in the minority.

 

[Glitterati3D]

AB-SO-LUTE-LY!!!

Sorry, didn't mean to shout, but that's exactly what about 75%-80% of complaints are comprised of. There have been legitimate complaints by folks who couldn't get it to install properly, but once they were informed of a better way to do it than they had done the first time around, they were happy campers again. Unfortunately, those sort of threads in the forums are in the minority.

Yeah, I am certain the competition got tired of all the good press Bondware/Renderosity was getting and sent in some of their users. There are several "complainers" who are active and supportive DS users on their forum. Not really a surprise is it?

Some are legitimate (like Tiny's) but are straightened out almost immediately.

 

[KageRyu]

I feel as @Satira Capriccio said about most of the complaints is likely the truth - especially after certain events of the last few months where I went out of my way to offer help and get answers and was dumped on for it.

I have never liked this activation feature/license manager and have been very vocal about it over the years, even back in the RuntimeDNA forums when I was an official Poser Ambassador. I lay the blame for it firmly at Smith Micro's feet. In fact when I reached out to them about those "Contingencies" they had regarding using my software in just this situation I was essentially told to go pound sand. This is not Rendo's fault and never was.

I feel Renderosity's Poser team has been very cooperative and helpful, especially when I emailed them directly. I have usually gotten an answer or information within a day, two over a weekend. Renderosity has offered everyone affected by the deactivation a free upgrade to the version of the software they will be supporting - this is more than other software companies may have done, and is very generous. I get updating may not appeal to everyone, but that it was offered free and solves the problem of the old software no longer activating means that they have not ignored the problem and have offered a viable solution.

Now, all of that being said - I can see how for some upgrading may not be immediately viable. I, for example, use a Graphics workstation that still runs Windows XP 64. Poser 2014 was the last version of Poser that would install and run on it (but was not officially supported on XP), Poser 11 will not even install. The workstation needs drivers, some of which are not supported in Windows 7, 8, or 10 so it is not a question of upgrading the OS it means I need a whole new machine. Additionally many of my peripherals (Flatbed Scanner, Photo-Printer, Dye-Sublination Printer, 250mb Zip drive for my old archives) do not even have drivers for Windows 7+ which means I would also need a new scanner, new printer, and lose access to my Zip archives. These are expenses that even were I not on fixed income due to disability would be hard to handle all at once. However, I know there is a copy of Poser 11 waiting for me when I can run it - and my situation can not be a common one.

 

[eclark1894]

I have noticed that most of the complaints usually end up with Poser not being able to find a missing file or being put in the wrong place. I'm not a Windows person, although I am currently on a PC laptop. While I'm on my Mac, I can usually put Poser pretty much anywhere I want, within reason, of course. On my laptop, I let Poser put it where it wants. I don't know if there's a built in problem with doing that way, but I've yet to have a start up problem.

Also, not related to any updates or anything, but I have been working on a scene, saved it, and next time I tried to open it, Poser has a problem locating something like a texture file. Or having Dawn just outright disappear on me. First time that ever happened to me with ANY figure.

 

[Miss B]

I've noticed with a lot of posts by folks on the Renderosity forum who are having issues, they're installing Poser into Windows > Program Files. I stopped installing ANY software where I can choose the installation location into Program Files when I left WinXP Pro behind.

IIRC, Microsoft changed things with Windows Vista (the UAC issue?), and most software, or at least the 3D apps I have, now place content in a My Documents folder, which is NOT where I want it. Soooo, I have two directories at the root of my C: drive called 2D applications and 3D applications. By installing Poser in the 3D Software directory, I can keep my Poser Runtime within the Poser main folder without having issues.

Granted, with Poser you can have your Runtimes anywhere, even on another drive, and since I started using the External Library to view my Runtimes with my browser, it doesn't matter that much, but I'm so used to this setup, I don't want to change it. I guess it's what you get used to, as long as it keeps working for you, that matters.

 

[Ken1171]

I have Poser installed on its own hard drive (H:\), and I used to have problems with that by the times of Poser 7, 8 and 9, but not anymore with 10 and 11. I have sorted this out with SMS after some really exhaustive back and forth rounds. The problem was that Poser was storing some of its configuration in Windows' temporary folders, which got wiped out from time to time. I had to find that out myself (examining Poser log files), since SMS tech support was once again playing dead. They have fixed that after I gave them the problem in a silver plate. Now I can install it anywhere I like, and it no longer bugs out at launch.

However, some problems persist with the library when we use multiple runtimes. Poser fails to locate geometry and textures, because it keeps looking at the previous place it has used, and refuses to look even at the default runtime. Oddly enough, it still keeps opening the file search dialog even after we told Poser where the files are. It opens the file open dialog for every texture or geometry it wants, even if they are all in the same folder. I have been reporting this for years to no avail. It still does in 11.2. All this could be avoided if Poser would use meta-data when saving it's files. I have suggested this to SMS, and they said no. It's best to let people locate the files manually.