Official Announcement: DAZ terminates agreement to publish HiveWire 3D animals!

[daywalker03]

Just my 0.02.....

This doesnt surprise me one whit. Face it: they've given away, according to them anyway, something like three million copies of Studio, and yet their customer base really hasnt grown all that much in comparison. Their prices on everything have gone way up, even for model meshes they no longer support. They've made some crackhead stupid business decisions over the years (the clip art fiasco, anyone?), and this is just another in a long series, simply because they refuse to see that Poser is still a very viable software with a big market share. And I suspect that their limited little forays into making Poser items available is telling them that — and they just do not like it.

Honestly, Chris, I think you dodged a Howitzer on this one. Had this relationship continued, they would have insisted that everything come in DS format only, and any possible connection to Hivewire would have been erased... just because that's how they've proven themselves to operate. Seriously, bud, consider yourself lucky.

I'm not so sure they don't realize how many folks still use Poser, or would if DAZ3D content would work natively.

 

[Hornet3d]

As someone who was dismayed by the original announcement (and voiced it on more than one occasion) no one could blame people if they imagined that I would be pleased with this latest development but I am not. If anything I think I am more upset by this than the setting up of the agreement, certainly I was dismayed originally but this has left me feeling angry. I admired the courage of the original decision for, knowing something of the history, I felt the team here were really doing what they felt was best for Hivewire and were being quite forgiving. To have that thrown back in the teams face is indefensible and that is before you take in the time and effort that was expended to make this happen.

At what point did the corporations in the 3D art world become so thin skinned, Daz is not alone for, as some of you will know, I was recently suspended/banned from Renderosity based on supposedly negative comments I had made about them here. That of course is insignificant to what has happened here but it is the same trend. Did Daz really expect that any statement had to be either glowing about them or had to be presented for their approval before being made public. The Hivewire agreement was only as a vendor and not a partner after all and they approached Hivewire not the other way around.

There was a great deal of negative comment about Daz from many here for many different reasons, does anyone at Daz really think that ending this agreement in this manner is going to improve that view. Sure they can shut down discussion in their forums but we all know that keeping bad news (and behavior) away from the public gaze is just not feasible in the age of the Internet. I know I am biased here but anyone other than a real fan will see Daz as the aggressor and Hivewire as the victim.

I am so sorry for the whole team and anyone who worked on the project, I did not agree with the decisions but knew why it was made and I supported that. The road without Daz will be a little harder probably a lot longer but I am sure the journey down this lone road will lead eventually, to a much better place than it would have done.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

That's how I feel too Hornet. I hope the limited exposure of the HiveWire animals at DAZ succeeded in making people on the fence about HiveWire reconsider, and that it brought some people to HiveWire who had never visited before. I also know this partnership had possible positive benefits for HiveWire. It certainly wasn't a decision made lightly ... without a lot of concern over how we would feel. Even before the partnership announcement, it was known some of us had ended any kind of a relationship with DAZ and would be upset over the HiveWire animals being sold exclusively at DAZ.


Healthy competition is important. Unfortunately, the business world today is so focused on wiping out/absorbing the competition, that it's the consumer who is hurt. So many mega corporations have absorbed almost all the competition in much of the world's industries. Does anyone really believe having all food produced/manufactured by a few mega corporations is healthy for anyone? Or that the existence of Monsanto is actually beneficial for anyone ... or the world?!?

I suspect if DAZ thought it had been possible, they would have tried buying HiveWire. Instead, they offered a partnership. Whatever they say ... I think they believe it was going to be too beneficial to HiveWire and threatening to DAZ. That's the only explanation that makes sense ... even if it doesn't. I mean ... how many Davids defeat Goliaths?


It's like DAZ expected HiveWire to become DAZ mouthpieces like RDNA did when it was bought. As if DAZ was going to back out of that purchase if RDNA had even hinted they felt some remorse or concern for their customers. Instead ... everything that was posted read like it had been written by DAZ.

Seriously though ... this is so typical of DAZ. They have such a skewed perception ... of everything. I wonder if they even see themselves as the bully they are?

 

[Hornet3d]

That's how I feel too Hornet. I hope the limited exposure of the HiveWire animals at DAZ succeeded in making people on the fence about HiveWire reconsider, and that it brought some people to HiveWire who had never visited before. I also know this partnership had possible positive benefits for HiveWire. It certainly wasn't a decision made lightly ... without a lot of concern over how we would feel. Even before the partnership announcement, it was known some of us had ended any kind of a relationship with DAZ and would be upset over the HiveWire animals being sold exclusively at DAZ.


Healthy competition is important. Unfortunately, the business world today is so focused on wiping out/absorbing the competition, that it's the consumer who is hurt. So many mega corporations have absorbed almost all the competition in much of the world's industries. Does anyone really believe having all food produced/manufactured by a few mega corporations is healthy for anyone? Or that the existence of Monsanto is actually beneficial for anyone ... or the world?!?

I suspect if DAZ thought it had been possible, they would have tried buying HiveWire. Instead, they offered a partnership. Whatever they say ... I think they believe it was going to be too beneficial to HiveWire and threatening to DAZ. That's the only explanation that makes sense ... even if it doesn't. I mean ... how many Davids defeat Goliaths?


It's like DAZ expected HiveWire to become DAZ mouthpieces like RDNA did when it was bought. As if DAZ was going to back out of that purchase if RDNA had even hinted they felt some remorse or concern for their customers. Instead ... everything that was posted read like it had been written by DAZ.

Seriously though ... this is so typical of DAZ. They have such a skewed perception ... of everything. I wonder if they even see themselves as the bully they are?

You make a good point and the one thing that I do like is that those who do not shop at Daz, for whatever reason, now have access to the Hivewire animals again.

Strange that Daz feels threatened (unless we are talking about the quality of the products) whatever the reason they are certainly trying to make this as threatening as possible to themselves. I do know it only encourages me to spend more money here but that may just be me always trying to support the under dog. What does killing the opposition achieve for example , if they had purchased Bryce and continued to develop it I would still use it, they didn't they bought it and since it has continued to die a long lingering death. How does this help Daz when I buy Vue instead.

This sort of practice really does leave a nasty taste in my throat, is there really no room in this world for respect, honesty and good business practice. Maybe I am just getting old and my memory is failing but I am sure I remember a time when deals were concluded on the basis of a hand shake or on to parties giving their word.

 

[Willowisp]

Seriously Daz?? And here I had a slight hope that things would change over there. Guess not.

Can't say I'm surprised tho, in fact i had expected this to happen sooner, when I saw the amount of attention HiveWire got from this. I think HW is the winner here, as I'm pretty sure they have gotten more customers out of this. Of course, there is all that wasted time in preparing all this, but at the end of the day, I think HW will come out stronger from this.

 

[AllenArt]

Welcome to the New World, where everyone gets butt-hurt over everything under the sun. *sigh*

Companies just shouldn't act like this, and I respect Hivewire for not acting like spoiled children (unlike the other place).

 

[Bonnie2001]

Rather than focus on the quality offering of our animal products, and what could be accomplished together, we were informed after my initial forum announcement, that DAZ was disappointed and saddened by what was stated.

I've read the original announcement and all the posts in this thread here, and I still don't understand what the problem is. Can anyone explain in dummy terms what exactly DAZ had a problem with that caused them to pull the agreement?

 

[Janet]

I reread Chris's announcement where he expressed some concern: "Will there be some concerns for us for having made this decision? Most certainly yes! But... we strongly feel that the benefit of moving our original animals over to DAZ, will outweigh any negatives by doing so. HiveWire will still exist, HiveWire will still produce for our Human figure line, and our animals as well."

And he encouraged feedback. It's gotta be that he didn't go in there trumpets blazing that WOW HiveWire will publish through DAZ and aren't they the best!

 

[Glitterati3D]

I've read the original announcement and all the posts in this thread here, and I still don't understand what the problem is. Can anyone explain in dummy terms what exactly DAZ had a problem with that caused them to pull the agreement?

In simple language, Bonnie, DAZ got their feelings hurt over something Chris said and backed out of the deal. Supposedly.

Much more likely is that the response to the Hivewire animals at DAZ was threatening to them and they backed out of the deal.

 

[Jennifer Blake]

We would be happy to have the animals at Renderosity. No Exclusive Agreement required. You know my email.

 

[daywalker03]

In simple language, Bonnie, DAZ got their feelings hurt over something Chris said and backed out of the deal. Supposedly.

Much more likely is that the response to the Hivewire animals at DAZ was threatening to them and they backed out of the deal.

Maybe a couple of their CAs that do animals felt threatened and demanded that DAZ end the agreement or they would pull all their content. And it seems someone put a "thumbtack" in the DAZ3D forum thread about the initial agreement.

 

[John Hoagland]

I'm sorry to hear the news, but this is exactly what happened to me.

DAZ said they wanted to sell all my products, we signed an agreement, and then they cancelled the agreement because of "negative comments" that they claimed I made. They didn't say what comments I made, where they saw the comments, or what made them so upset that they cancelled the agreement.
But most of all, they never offered to talk to me about these "comments" and resolve any issues like adults so we could both continue to make money. If we assume that DAZ keeps 50% of the product sale, then if I was making thousands of dollars in sales then DAZ is also making thousands of dollars in sales. Yet they're willing to cut off that income and terminate a signed agreement rather than talk things over.

And this may sound like a conspiracy theory, but I also wonder if there's some jealously from the top-selling PA's. After I made my agreement with DAZ, I quickly had 400 products listed on their site, making me the second-largest PA after RDNA. I don't think a lot of top PA's didn't like the fact that I suddenly jumped from 0 products to 400, especially when a lot of my products were older or were meant for use in Poser, Studio Max, or Vue. But the PA's shouldn't blame me since DAZ should have chosen not to upload those products.
So I think there's a similar situation here. Suddenly, Hivewire has a lot of products and they're taking attention away from the usual top PA's. And there's probably some truth to the idea that Hivewire's animals are better than the DAZ animals, which is probably why DAZ wanted to sell the products in the first place. But again, this creates jealously from the DAZ PA's who worked on those animals.

And like I said before, it seems like DAZ would rather terminate an agreement than discuss the issues.

 

[SndCastie]

 

[Glitterati3D]

Maybe a couple of their CAs that do animals felt threatened and demanded that DAZ end the agreement or they would pull all their content. And it seems someone put a "thumbtack" in the DAZ3D forum thread about the initial agreement.

I'm sorry, but that's not how DAZ operates. If a vendor threatened to leave DAZ they would say "bye, bye" because THAT is how they operate.

 

[eclark1894]

I'm sorry to hear the news, but this is exactly what happened to me.

DAZ said they wanted to sell all my products, we signed an agreement, and then they cancelled the agreement because of "negative comments" that they claimed I made. They didn't say what comments I made, where they saw the comments, or what made them so upset that they cancelled the agreement.
But most of all, they never offered to talk to me about these "comments" and resolve any issues like adults so we could both continue to make money. If we assume that DAZ keeps 50% of the product sale, then if I was making thousands of dollars in sales then DAZ is also making thousands of dollars in sales. Yet they're willing to cut off that income and terminate a signed agreement rather than talk things over.

And this may sound like a conspiracy theory, but I also wonder if there's some jealously from the top-selling PA's. After I made my agreement with DAZ, I quickly had 400 products listed on their site, making me the second-largest PA after RDNA. I don't think a lot of top PA's didn't like the fact that I suddenly jumped from 0 products to 400, especially when a lot of my products were older or were meant for use in Poser, Studio Max, or Vue. But the PA's shouldn't blame me since DAZ should have chosen not to upload those products.
So I think there's a similar situation here. Suddenly, Hivewire has a lot of products and they're taking attention away from the usual top PA's. And there's probably some truth to the idea that Hivewire's animals are better than the DAZ animals, which is probably why DAZ wanted to sell the products in the first place. But again, this creates jealously from the DAZ PA's who worked on those animals.

And like I said before, it seems like DAZ would rather terminate an agreement than discuss the issues.

John, as long as you're here, mind sending me a link to where you're selling your Poser stuff these days?

 

[Alisa]

Everyone's support is...beyond awesome! Thank you

Welcome to HiveWire, Geir, L'Adair, and Jen!

 

[Flint_Hawk]

I wanted to add my best wishes to everyone here at HiveWire! I am glad that you are so open/honest! You are the best!

Good luck to you!

 

[LisaB]

Thank you for all of the support, folks. It means a lot to us that you are all as passionate as we are.

Please remember that as much as you may disagree with someone, from their perspective, they are doing exactly the right thing. It may be because they know no other way or haven't yet seen alternative ways to "agree to disagree" and still move forward, or any number of reasons. The point is they feel justified in their decision. Still, it's important to remember that there are humans on the other side of this, too, who are no less deserving of kindness and compassion no matter how angry or frustrated we may become with their actions. When we can all be big enough to truly strive to see and understand from an opposing point of view there is no limit to what might be accomplished together, even if we "agree to disagree".

 

[eclark1894]

I will break my silence to say this. This type of spiteful behavior tends to have a karmic consequence. DAZ should really consider changing the way they interact with others in this community. People tend not to like it when you show disrespect to people that this community respects and consider like family.

 

[sean_martin]

If that's all it takes, then maybe we should start whisper campaigns so that the merchants we want will come here. I for one would love to see Redspark here as opposed to the Evil Empire. Think we can arrange that?

And to you, Mr. Hoagland, I'm glad you got in long enough for me to pick up a number of your things. Your work is always top drawer.