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WIP MEC4D - Creations for Dawn 2 and Dusk 2 , work in progress

MEC4D

Zbrushing through the topology
Contributing Artist
Just amazing!

Dana
Thank you Dana , part 2 of big details for displacement ..
Now going to work on the medium details , small wrinkles , pores etc on a second layer
 

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MEC4D

Zbrushing through the topology
Contributing Artist
The medium details in process .. that's my favorite part of everything ..
regularly you don't see it as much from a normal distance , more for the close up shots , but it gonna give the nice break up for the specular node, making it more matte and softer and of course the SSS will profit from it mostly
 

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MEC4D

Zbrushing through the topology
Contributing Artist
First image Big details, second Medium details .. and that is ! tomorrow gonna be painting !
 

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Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
Agree, I never care how a base mesh looks. I care how good you can morph the base and the rigging. Look Tempesta, she has amazing characters from the so called " ugly" figures from Poser. Pauline, ,Dawn....have many of her characters and nobody would tell at the first sight which figure she morphed here.
But when you lack of talent, you call the tool dysfunctional .
This fixation on the base figure lookelike is strange.
Never forget , the Notre Dame or Versailles in your Poser was at the beginning a cube too . :inlove:
As long as there is sufficient topology to play with you can do pretty much anything with a mesh. If you look at what Chris has done with the original Dawn and how he used her as a base for all those animals. It's like a lump of clay for people to mould into the characters they want to.

That said it is easier if you're starting from a base that is fairly featureless, so yes some might find it harder to morph but it's still possible to do. I think that when people say that it's an excuse.
Let me explain something , to make the chimp takes as much work as making Dusk2 , it is not just some morph you can load and done , same with all my other new shapes . There is huge amount of work that is not visible to the users behind it. You thinking you just buying a morph for your base figure, but you actually getting a new figure character that uses the same OBJ as your base figure . The difference between new shapes and morphs is huge , as figure shapes have own adjusted rigging and own unique morphs to function proper independently from the main base figure , they are particularly new figures that use the same unimesh as Dusk2.0 but are not stand alone .
Dawn 2.0 is the new original unimesh from what everything else is delivered this time ..
So here you have it, a brand new stuff that has nothing to do with "yesterday"

you can see below the new unimesh ancestry tree .. and the differences, of course very plain version of the actual system.
That is the Genesis System Dawn2.0 is running on in D|S , all rigged figures in Daz Studio use it just with different unimeshes.
I agree with this. The morphs I do are very basic when you do a full shape like this you really need to understand mesh topology and also anatomy.

That was one of the reasons that Chris and Cath's work blows me away with how skilled they are.
 

AnimaGemini

Living in the clouds
Contributing Artist
As long as there is sufficient topology to play with you can do pretty much anything with a mesh. If you look at what Chris has done with the original Dawn and how he used her as a base for all those animals. It's like a lump of clay for people to mould into the characters they want to.
Agree 100%
That said it is easier if you're starting from a base that is fairly featureless, so yes some might find it harder to morph but it's still possible to do. I think that when people say that it's an excuse.
I have not much talent in morphing out characters .No matter if "clean or detailed" base mesh. Therefore I buy character from talented people . I followed many threads where new figures from Poser get bashed long before they got released. Look what happened to Antonia . Free well rigged figure. She get bashed from the first day. Sixus Scarlet, Dawn... There are a handful people out who are on a crusade against every new Poser figure. Spread lies and discredit them long before their release.
 

MEC4D

Zbrushing through the topology
Contributing Artist
Agree 100%

I have not much talent in morphing out characters .No matter if "clean or detailed" base mesh. Therefore I buy character from talented people . I followed many threads where new figures from Poser get bashed long before they got released. Look what happened to Antonia . Free well rigged figure. She get bashed from the first day. Sixus Scarlet, Dawn... There are a handful people out who are on a crusade against every new Poser figure. Spread lies and discredit them long before their release.
Darling , we promised that we will not going back and talking about the negative past , hate and other stuff but focus what we have a head of us , you know what is the law of attraction? .. bringing back negative talk over and over again will keep it alive and will create the opportunity for others to do it again and again. You can't make others believe that something is good, if they don't find it good, everyone have own taste and needs.

Victoria was a Marilyn Monroe of her times, and nothing will ever bring it back or replace her success again on that scale., as that was not just her that made the success, a lot of other factors . What is left today are just bunch of sentiments and history. It is impossible to bring back the times again.
Dawn 2.0 have a huge chance to be a very successful figure , but it all depends of the support with great products, no misfits that looks like done 20 years ago. It don't have to be realistic at all , but on a proper level for a proper category because if not, it gonna damage it to the same level as all other stuff in the past. Go to ZbrushCentral, see what hobbyist doing , don't make others believe how good stuff is because you don't want to hurt their feelings. Good friends tell the truth and inspire . We may not all have the same skills or be on the same level, but we all have eyes, and we know exactly what looks good and what don't . If someone ask me for opinion I say what it is, as it will help others to improve , and not selling sweet words that means nothing , it is shady and dishonest. I always look on the skills and level of the person's work and based on that giving my opinion for their level, because later the person go outside the "fake circle" and people laughing at their work and that is not nice.

But going back to the subject, let's focus on the good stuff, good art, helping for real each other to make it a better place, no brining dramas from other forums that don't concern anybody here, but in place show them your best honey ! this is the best revenge, as words means nothing .
Let's focus on how we can make it better this time , and leave the envy people behind however it is. Starting fire is easy, but to repair the damage later not so and since there are no great prices to win, not worth it .. just ignore

Chris and Paul did great job on the base figure , the rest is in our hands , how you make your bed so will be your dreams !

you know what my signature quote means in latin ?
"Invidia rumpuntur aves, neque noctua curat" " The birds are destroyed by their own envy, and the Owl doesn't care "
Be the Owl ! your life going to be much more pleasant !
 

MEC4D

Zbrushing through the topology
Contributing Artist
I agree with this. The morphs I do are very basic when you do a full shape like this you really need to understand mesh topology and also anatomy.
You know Pen, I was there before , I was afraid to move the eyelids and eyeballs for so long, not able to fix it if I do something wrong, not enough confidence and practice , but then I just started practice on the difficult parts .

A lot of the models or morph I see around have smoothed out the topology, especially the eyelids , what make the morphs looking weird as with some syndrome , eyelids are the only organic parts in anatomy that have hard edge as well, and I still hate it when I screw it and have to repair , difficult area that take time . When I learned my own ways, sometimes I loaded wire frame face textures with painted inner eyelids for guidance, so I don't go too far to avoid issues while modeling , as it is easy to lose the topology flow in this area because there is no beginning or end.

For full body shape morphs I did load the OBJ with the groups, not material zones , the rigging groups as it was easy to see where the joins are and you don't make a bend a finger or leg somewhere else and later need to be fixed with JCM's , there is a lot of indicators in the topology of Dawn 2, but not on the hands /fingers so I have to load my join group obj and guide myself by the color of the group.

And of course later adjust the rigging to the new shape , some JCMs if needed and done . It is a long process and the second part of it is boring, but I have nobody else to do that for me . We need to learn everything , I don't like to be dependent on others.

I studied human form, color and design , but am still buying new books for anatomy. I even did one 2 weeks ago again ,as I always find something new to learn from. I studied classic art , but you can't do everything based on the sculpture anatomy of David or Venus .. lol



The basic morphs you are doing are fine , that is a good start and a great practice , the face anatomy have soft and hard tissue , when people moving the hard tissue it turns the face into misfits, there are always relations between parts since it is organic matter, there are no ugly people, every face have own proper balance and will find someone that find them attractive , unless it is interbreed or genetic disorder that throw the natural balance out what giving us a natural sign to stay away because something is not ok. That is why we find a lot of face morphs for 3D models not attractive for our taste because they don't actually follow the human anatomy rules unless it is a cartoon or stylized face. The Uncanny Valley
 

AnimaGemini

Living in the clouds
Contributing Artist
Darling , we promised that we will not going back and talking about the negative past , hate and other stuff but focus what we have a head of us , you know what is the law of attraction? .. bringing back negative talk over and over again will keep it alive and will create the opportunity for others to do it again and again. You can't make others believe that something is good, if they don't find it good, everyone have own taste and needs.
Law of Attraction....yes, try to follow as much as possible. Sometimes I fail and curse and do the opposite. Bad for Karma...than I go and meditate , make art or a walk.
But going back to the subject, let's focus on the good stuff, good art, helping for real each other to make it a better place, no brining dramas from other forums that don't concern anybody here, but in place show them your best honey ! this is the best revenge, as words means nothing .
Let's focus on how we can make it better this time , and leave the envy people behind however it is. Starting fire is easy, but to repair the damage later not so and since there are no great prices to win, not worth it .. just ignore
:love::balloon03::balloon03:
 

Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
You know Pen, I was there before , I was afraid to move the eyelids and eyeballs for so long, not able to fix it if I do something wrong, not enough confidence and practice , but then I just started practice on the difficult parts .
It takes time doesn't it to gain confidence. I've recently been experimenting with the eyes more but I'm still very hesitant to do a lot in that area, noses are so much easier less moving bits.;)
A lot of the models or morph I see around have smoothed out the topology, especially the eyelids , what make the morphs looking weird as with some syndrome , eyelids are the only organic parts in anatomy that have hard edge as well, and I still hate it when I screw it and have to repair , difficult area that take time . When I learned my own ways, sometimes I loaded wire frame face textures with painted inner eyelids for guidance, so I don't go too far to avoid issues while modeling , as it is easy to lose the topology flow in this area because there is no beginning or end.
One thing I've noticed with Zbrush is you need to use smooth really carefully. Sometimes just tap it quickly with a really small brush or it ends up doing way more than you want. Ctrl Z is an important thing to use when that happens.
For full body shape morphs I did load the OBJ with the groups, not material zones , the rigging groups as it was easy to see where the joins are and you don't make a bend a finger or leg somewhere else and later need to be fixed with JCM's , there is a lot of indicators in the topology of Dawn 2, but not on the hands /fingers so I have to load my join group obj and guide myself by the color of the group.

And of course later adjust the rigging to the new shape , some JCMs if needed and done . It is a long process and the second part of it is boring, but I have nobody else to do that for me . We need to learn everything , I don't like to be dependent on others.
You're right we need to learn things for ourselves. I remember how long it took with Diva to adjust the rigging and create jcm's.
I studied human form, color and design , but am still buying new books for anatomy. I even did one 2 weeks ago again ,as I always find something new to learn from. I studied classic art , but you can't do everything based on the sculpture anatomy of David or Venus .. lol
It's something you never stop doing. I did life drawing years ago but still need to learn so much. Have you seen this one? Anatomy For Sculptors, Understanding the Human Figure - Uldis Zarins, Sandis Kondrats | 9781735039060 | Amazon.com.au | Books
I found it while watching a preview for an anatomy course on Udemy.
The basic morphs you are doing are fine , that is a good start and a great practice , the face anatomy have soft and hard tissue , when people moving the hard tissue it turns the face into misfits, there are always relations between parts since it is organic matter, there are no ugly people, every face have own proper balance and will find someone that find them attractive , unless it is interbreed or genetic disorder that throw the natural balance out what giving us a natural sign to stay away because something is not ok. That is why we find a lot of face morphs for 3D models not attractive for our taste because they don't actually follow the human anatomy rules unless it is a cartoon or stylized face. The Uncanny Valley
I actually like to try and use pictures of real people to practice my morphing. My recent Ninia and Nisha morphs were inspired by real people but not the same as the photos. I was trying to see how closely I could replicate a particular look. Too many of the characters are very similar in the mouth style and to my mind don't look realistic but there are some vendors who do an amazing job of making the characters look real. My biggest issue at the moment is working out how to texture skin properly. Finding a good tutorial and a good workflow is not easy.
 

MEC4D

Zbrushing through the topology
Contributing Artist
It takes time doesn't it to gain confidence. I've recently been experimenting with the eyes more but I'm still very hesitant to do a lot in that area, noses are so much easier less moving bits.;)

One thing I've noticed with Zbrush is you need to use smooth really carefully. Sometimes just tap it quickly with a really small brush or it ends up doing way more than you want. Ctrl Z is an important thing to use when that happens.

You're right we need to learn things for ourselves. I remember how long it took with Diva to adjust the rigging and create jcm's.

It's something you never stop doing. I did life drawing years ago but still need to learn so much. Have you seen this one? Anatomy For Sculptors, Understanding the Human Figure - Uldis Zarins, Sandis Kondrats | 9781735039060 | Amazon.com.au | Books
I found it while watching a preview for an anatomy course on Udemy.

I actually like to try and use pictures of real people to practice my morphing. My recent Ninia and Nisha morphs were inspired by real people but not the same as the photos. I was trying to see how closely I could replicate a particular look. Too many of the characters are very similar in the mouth style and to my mind don't look realistic but there are some vendors who do an amazing job of making the characters look real. My biggest issue at the moment is working out how to texture skin properly. Finding a good tutorial and a good workflow is not easy.
I came across your figure character the other day I think on Rendo , that what you talking about ? well done Pen, well done !
Regarding the book , yes I have this book, actually his full collection of books , but the prices are crazy on Amazon , it is $55 on his own website and there is also new book released I think 10 days ago Form of the Head to the Neck , I got the beautifully made PDF version $44 , he bring a lot of stuff from the old times in New Light and illustration in European style and the latest book is the best so far, a definitely must have because it focus on the 3D a little more and his eyes anatomy is just exactly on spot what I was talking the other days about. Also his other books explain the movement and structure behind the anatomy of movement so also great if someone learning proper rigging. And of course the anatomy behind aging is wonderfully explained in his last book. Every plastic surgeon in Hollywood should buy this book too lol Form of the Head and Neck - PDF e-book (English) <<< digital pdf version

You see Pen, the shape/morph is most important , skin details or not it will looks real even without skin textures or details, so it is the most important foundation for everything after .
 
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Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
I came across your figure character the other I think on Rendo , that what you talking about ? well done Pen, well done !
Coming from you that means a lot...so much thanks!
Regarding the book , yes I have this book, actually his full collection of books , but the prices are crazy on Amazon , it is $55 on his own website and there is also new book released I think 10 days ago Form of the Head to the Neck , I got the beautifully made PDF version $44 , he bring a lot of stuff from the old times in New Light and illustration in European style and the latest book is the best so far, a definitely must have because it focus on the 3D a little more and his eyes anatomy is just exactly on spot what I was talking the other days about. Also his other books explain the movement and structure behind the anatomy of movement so also great if someone learning proper rigging. And of course the anatomy behind aging is wonderfully explained in his last book. Every plastic surgeon in Hollywood should buy this book too lol Form of the Head and Neck - PDF e-book (English) <<< digital pdf version

You see Pen, the shape/morph is most important , skin details or not it will looks real even without skin textures or details, so it is the most important foundation for everything after .
I agree the shape/morph has to be right, it won't matter how good the texture is if it isn't.

I'm looking to see if I can get it in kindle/pdf format. I will have to check out his website. Thanks for the link and info.
 

MEC4D

Zbrushing through the topology
Contributing Artist
Coming from you that means a lot...so much thanks!

I agree the shape/morph has to be right, it won't matter how good the texture is if it isn't.

I'm looking to see if I can get it in kindle/pdf format. I will have to check out his website. Thanks for the link and info.
I believe you going to profit on this book very much , especially on the morphs creations, I learned in a day how faster sculpt the monolids in 3D compared to how I was doing it always before. I read quickly everything but did not go through every subject in deep review and practice , I just jump in when I get in troubles lol like the smoothed ear last time , there was too late for Ctrl+Z lol when I noticed it . On top it helps to guide you when you get lost or have not enough indicator in the topology. You also can learn quickly what is missing in the already very good topology and how to improve it in your own creations. Or one day sculpt your own .
 

Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
I'm certainly looking forward to reading it. $44 for the pdf version in US dollars is still a lot of money in Australian dollars but I'll be checking my dollars to see if I can get it straight away. He has some interesting texts listed in his store.
 

MEC4D

Zbrushing through the topology
Contributing Artist
I'm certainly looking forward to reading it. $44 for the pdf version in US dollars is still a lot of money in Australian dollars but I'll be checking my dollars to see if I can get it straight away. He has some interesting texts listed in his store.
CGI Artists I know from the film industry introduced me to his books as he is very popular among the 3D studios , there is also some Human proportion calculator for free, very handy , you can check here Human Proportion Calculator and bookmark for future usage, it is based on the old human form proportions and golden ratio.
 

Dakorillon (IMArts)

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Thanks for "liking" a bunch of my Renn Faire pictures, Cath! I wish modelling clothing was as easy as sewing them! (Although you do make it look like it is!)
 

MEC4D

Zbrushing through the topology
Contributing Artist
Thanks for "liking" a bunch of my Renn Faire pictures, Cath! I wish modelling clothing was as easy as sewing them! (Although you do make it look like it is!)
You welcome , very nice job on the costumes , looks very authentic and high quality , trust me sewing clothing for me is much easier than model them. The principle is the same but different approach . Marvelous Design did not worked for me and it should since I am good in making patterns and sewing it . It just don't speak to me , designing clothing for rigging and dynamics are 2 different things, like making topology for animation vs sculpting a 3d sculpture .. same thing but different approach.
Anyway enjoyed the photo, beautiful family you got yourself there.
 

Dakorillon (IMArts)

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Thank you about the family! They are all grown up now and married.

As for the garb, the Faire that we were involved with as cast was much more pitched towards the historic and educational, sadly that isn't the case anymore, as it changed hands some years ago. But, we created most of the trimmings and the hoops and such, and tried to get close to historical. (there were of course some liberties taken here and there!) We sang rounds, Latin songs, and some standard Celtic stuff. It was interesting to learn about Sumptuary Laws, and how big hoops were allowed to be, based on your rank, and so on. Much more complicated than people know about for the most part now! And growing up with it, we are all really good at British accents!
 
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