SKYLAB CHAT

[skylab]

Hi Seliah...glad you stopped in As for which is the best Poser version, that one would be debated by some. Currently I'm really enjoying Poser Pro 11...added lighting features, the adjustable UI, and their new figure Paul (which is growing on me because of his more normal proportions and ease of posing). The OBJ import issue is something I've discovered, and I don't know technically why it's happening...sometimes an OBJ imports, and it says it's there, but it doesn't show up in the preview pane, other times an OBJ file will import problem free. I tend to think it has to do with the surfaces, or mats, or lack of them, but I don't know for sure. Poser Pro 2014 imports OBJ with no problem. The fit room features are also in Poser Pro 2014, and it was the last version free of activation issues (that started with Game Dev). If you're wanting to support older figures, it may require use of an older version of Poser alongside, like Poser Pro 2010 or Poser 8 (try looking on Amazon). I encountered a problem trying to conform clothing to Apollo in Poser Pro 11....there's a problem in the right shoulder area that causes shirts to distort, and his shoes also do not conform properly...I remember seeing an article on RDNA Poser forum about this type of thing and the solution had something to do with going in and editing information on the figure, but since that was a bit over my head, I opted to conform Apollo's clothing in PP2010, then bring him into the PP11 scene by using the Import - Poser Doc/Prop feature (see pic), then proceed with posing. All that to say, it's difficult to recommend which Poser version would be right for your needs...all have strengths and weaknesses. I keep all three installed on my workstation (PP2010, PP2014, and PP11) as it is part of my daily workflow with keeping up support for the older figures. Good luck with this, and hope the videos and information help

 

[skylab]

I thought of something else to compare the OBJ import issue to...it reminds me of when I tried to use DAZ DSON importer unsuccessfully in Poser...I was trying to get Mil Horse 2 to import into Poser, and it indicated that a horse was on the editing screen, but nothing was visible in the preview pane. After several rounds with the "invisible horse", I gave up. So, the OBJ import issue in PP11 is similar...you feel like you're trying to find the "invisible object"...it's there, but not showing. So, for me, it was a matter of choosing a time saving work around, that is, importing into an older version of Poser, saving it as a scene file, then using the Import - Poser Doc/Prop feature in PP11. I got the idea about importing the scene because I encountered a problem with PP11 recognizing Poser 7 scene files...and finally narrowed it down to PP2010 being the best workflow bridge when dealing with older content.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Skylab,

I still have Poser 10 on my system, as I had bought it about halfway through last year on a sale price. I haven't had any issues with the older figures in P10. I can't speak much to the DSON importer, as I have never bothered to install it or try to use it, since I am a Studio artist when I'm rendering for my own artwork.

The adjustable UI was another reason I was considering the P11 Pro. P10's UI is practically locked in place, and as Poser does not make good use of space in it's UI, I'm constantly feeling "cramped" when I work in it, and I frankly can't wait to get back out of it again. The UI is just too busy, too many things that must ALL be on the screen at the same time, leaving me this tiny little scene window to work in. A previous version (I think it was P8?) had the content library set up to float. It took me a little to get used to that, and in some ways it was and still is very irritating, but I did come to appreciate having it floating and having the larger space available for my preview window/scene setup, as well as de-cluttering the workspace as well.

I also kind of do want to get my hands on Paul and Pauline. I am curious to see how they work, and they do look like nice figures. But mainly I use Poser for content creation, not art at this point. I can't stand the way Poser handles lighting at all. It's constantly a guess, and it takes twice as long to render the same scene as Studio does, if it renders at all for me.

Mainly, I was considering it for the better rigging/setup tools, the UI, and Paul/Pauline. I do still do some content support for the Gen4's, but most of my content these days is geared either to the Genesis lines (all three...) or Dawn, Dusk, and Luna, all of which are weight mapped and I don't think would suffer the issues Apollo seems to in P11.

Thanks for the explanation on the OBJ import.

 

[skylab]

Content Library placement options are one of the reasons I've stuck with Poser Pro versions in recent years...PP2010, PP2012, and PP2014 all have an option to view the library outside of the Poser program, so it's space saving and easier to read, after customized. I was disappointed when this external library feature was not available in PP11, so I put up with it occupying the right hand side, and allow the parameters box to float near the areas where I'm doing posing details.

I've demonstrated with screen captures below how the external library appears in the Pro versions...and I was sorry to see this feature not included in PP11....the trade off was the adjustable UI. The way I get around this in terms of consuming less time is I save base models with clothing, hair, and skin textures applied....and just import the dressed model into my workflow, thus bypassing searching for clothing, etc., so I can keep the PP11 library occupying as little space as possible. It's acceptable for pose work to do this, but I can see where it would not necessarily work for other things. Anyway, the screen captures below are from Poser Pro 2014 which is the Pro equivalent to Poser 10, so you'll see the difference in the Pro external library option.

The only way I know of getting an external library to function in Poser 10 would be something like Dimension3D's XL Library, available at Rendo and CP. I used it for awhile when Poser 8 was first released and everyone was having problems with flash and Internet Explorer, causing the library to not show at all.

 

[skylab]

I did this animation of a broken-hearted Andy, demonstrating the blank Poser 8 library, back when it was first released...haha.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

LOL, the animation is cute. And yeah, that would drive me nuts having the library empty like that! Fortunately for me, it took me so long to save up for the cost of the software that by the time I was finally able to afford it, they must have fixed whatever the issue was causing that, as I thankfully don't have that problem in P10.

I'd like to move up to a Pro version for the UI and technical side of things. I have to save up for it. Again. By the time I've saved up for it, they'll have probably moved on to the next version, LOL...

 

[Miss B]

Cute animation Sky. I had read somewhere about the outside of Poser view of the library, but haven't had a need to do that.

@Seliah I know what you mean. Up until now, I've always been at least one version behind, and not just with Poser. I do it with my 2D graphics apps as well. I just can't always buy a new upgrade when it comes out, so wind up getting it when another new version comes out at a cheaper price, or, I never update it again.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Up until now, I've always been at least one version behind, and not just with Poser.

I have a sort of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" policy, even with software. I don't rush out to get the upgrade just because it's an upgrade. There are times where I will skip entire versions. However, if there are features I want in the new versions, well, that qualifies as "time to start saving pennies."

Especially with Poser Pro versions, which cost literally half of my monthly mortgage payment. LOL

 

[Miss B]

That's EXACTLY my thinking as well. I'm thrilled to finally have access to the Fitting Room, and other options not available in the standard versions.

 

[skylab]

Poser Pro 2010 on Amazon for $29.90...that deal probably will go quick, and Poser 2012 for around $100. I think the fitting room was introduced in PP2014...pays to watch for deals to get you started, then you'd be eligible for upgrade pricing. There's always a Smith Micro sale right before a new version is released.

 

[Terre]

I have a sort of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" policy, even with software. I don't rush out to get the upgrade just because it's an upgrade. There are times where I will skip entire versions. However, if there are features I want in the new versions, well, that qualifies as "time to start saving pennies."

That's Jim's policy too. He skipped both 6 and 8/PP10 because he didn't consider the improvements to be worth the cost. He may end up skipping the current version as well because if a render takes more than half an hour or so he stops it and figures out another way to get the job done.
He won't be using a PBR until the ones available for Poser can turn out renders as fast as the one used in Skyrim and other games.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

He won't be using a PBR until the ones available for Poser can turn out renders as fast as the one used in Skyrim and other games.

Yep, I feel the same way about Iray. I don't have the patience to wait 12+ hours for an Iray render, and I'm not going to replace a whole computer just to use a PBR, either. I thik those engines put out gorgeous renders. But until they can render in a reasonable amount of time, and until they stop being an Nvidia proprietary thing... I'll stick to 3Delight and Firefly. CPU-only rendering in PBR's (especially Iray) on this machine is slower than a snail in a bucket of tar! LOL

 

[skylab]

I plan to take a look at the information about SuperFly rendering, but have to be realistic about the age and capability of my hardware...I just don't have the video card and processor speed that it would take to do fast SuperFly renders. But I could try some simple scenes later on just to become familiar with the techniques. I'm gathering that the process is very different from the former Firefly rendering method. So far I've been doing everything in Firefly, but am seeing improvement in results with PP11. When I have to set up a scene in PP2010, one of the things that I do is delete all but one light, so that when it's imported into PP11, it's just getting the scene information.

One thing I've noticed concerning discussions about Poser, even on the Poser forum...we don't have to worry about DS users stopping by to bash the software, Poser users fly off the mark as soon as the software is launched to do it themselves, much like that little Duster did with the Camaro in the race video. It's amazing. The most painful release of Poser was version 8, because it was a shift toward a new interface, and frankly the majority of the problems were flash and Microsoft related. If I could suggest anything to the Poser development team, it would be that they should keep at least two, if not five, old, piece of crap computers on site during beta development, and save themselves the headaches of trying to figure out how many of the complaints are Poser related, and how many of them are related to old computers. I'd venture to say that the majority of hobbyist users are expecting a bit much from computers that are 5-10 years old. This was a strong consideration for me, in even trying Poser 11, because I knew the decision to stay with Windows 7 would sooner or later impact the performance of updated Poser versions. I'm glad I took the risk for the adjustable UI alone...because eyesight issues were getting to be a challenge, my own physical "hardware" was the problem, not Poser...haha. I've tackled numerous complicated pose projects since upgrading, and have not had the frustrations of being unable to see what I'm doing...so I'm thankful a thousand times that I took the gamble toward the upgrade. I will say that, as a seasoned computer user, the new version "feels like" it's leaning toward Windows 10 performance...just like Poser 8 "felt like" it was flash and Explorer dependent (that is, intermittent, random problems would occur that could easily be traced to Windows or flash updates, if one was paying attention). Any time there's a major change in how a program relates to it's operating system, you can expect stormy seas...so this is why I say, at least five piece of crap computers need to be on the beta testing team, so there will be some anticipation of the types of complaints. A similar, but totally unrelated to Poser, problem is ongoing now for AOL users...when I recently restored my laptop to factory, cleaning out over five years of garbage, I made the mistake of putting off AOL installation until everything else was setup and ready....I typically do it first, and should have this time. Even though it's still Windows 7 with the same hardware I've had all along, AOL will not install. After trying everything under the sun, I went searching through AOL on my internet front line Vista and discovered that they are aware that their software installations are failing, due to an Adobe and Microsoft update....and they are hoping that they are working on a fix. So....that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about....sooner or later, like it or not, for those who have decided to decline Windows 10, other software may be impacted. I can only imagine what the Poser release forum would be like if there were installation issues...it would make Andy's missing library seem like not such a big deal...haha. All that to say, I was very thankful that this version of Poser installed and has functioned pretty much without a hitch so far. As to whether we can count on it working so well in two years...I don't know, but I'd guess it will depend heavily on what Microsoft does...just ask AOL users...haha.

 

[skylab]

I'll just add, if one is going to "camp out" with a Poser version, shoot for Poser Pro 2014, and be very, very careful with Windows updates. If one is wanting to go as far as you can with compatibility and can swing it, then you might want to do Poser Pro 11...but again, be very careful with Windows updates. And, if you are a dedicated, vintage Poser figure user, then Poser Pro 2010 was the last "sure thing" version.

For those interested in learning Poser 2014, or the new features of Poser Pro 11, teaching videos are posted on page 3 of this thread.

 

[Miss B]

There's always a Smith Micro sale right before a new version is released.

That's how I got Poser versions 7 and 9 for really good prices.

 

[Terre]

Eventually Jim will see a reason to upgrade Poser. I just don't know if it'll be PP11 or later. We'll see. Sales is how we got the version of 7 that I've used a few times.

 

[skylab]

Me too....I remember when Poser 6 was on leap year sale for $2.49...you can't beat that....haha. Of course, it was another story when I got it, and opened the program up, got scared out of my wits and closed it up again, thinking I'd never understand all of that! It took lots of time before I felt comfortable with it. There were lots of sales on Poser 7, and moving up to it helped a lot, since then I could "see" the figure in the preview pane, instead of a bunch of connected boxes. I camped out at Poser 7 for a very long time and learned a lot. Then Poser 8 came, with the disappearing content library. Until there was a fix, I had to load my scenes in Poser 7, then re-open in P8. I soon got tired of that and tried XL Library as a solution. Then when Poser 2010 was released, I heard there was an external library option, so upgraded during the sale price, and have stayed with it ever since through sales.

So I understand fully how people feel, no way would I just lay out $499 at one crack....but over the course of the 10 years that I've been doing this, a little bit at a time, I'm sure it's been that much....the difference being, I had the chance to learn and enjoy the program through the years...not to mention having given a lot of tips to new users who were just as scared as I was the first time I opened Poser. So I do understand it...but if you happen to be a new user and feel overwhelmed, the answer is not trying to learn everything at one time....rather, pick something that you like to do, and do that....and the rest will come. For me, it was posing....and what followed was animation. I'm still learning about lighting and materials, and walk very wide circles around the rigging room for fear it will jump up and "get" me...haha....or put more clearly, fear of failure, and that's what holds most people back. And it's no wonder we struggle with fear of failure, because we can be the most outspoken, critical, even bashing, folks when it comes to the tools we use. My real life peers think I've been some sort of genius for learning as much as I have....but in reality I've been pretty much average, with all the fears and failures as everyone else. But one thing I refuse to do....I will not camp out back at P4 and James or M2...the figures popular when I started out just because I'm afraid of moving on and learning something new, and I'd never encourage others to do the same. I still support the older figures because I enjoy using them, but I enjoy using the new ones as well. The same is true for the tools we use....every upgrade is an improvement over the last. Unfortunately our outlook of the figures we use is the same....if "new and improved" ends up not being perfect, we bash the very life right out of it. But the fault lies not with the figure, but with our expectations, and lack of creativity. I can remember when V4 was released, the first time I saw the base model, I thought "woof, take her for a walk..." I mean really, those eyes gawking into the camera and the green tint to the base skin....but she turned out to be the model that everybody has hung onto for years...because of creativity.

 

[Terre]

Several years ago a good deal was offered on a lifetime upgrade for Filter Forge. As much as Jim uses that program we jumped on that deal.
When it comes to Poser, when I open it I mostly practice posing. I figured that was a good place to start. My decision was also influenced by how many renders I'd seen which were made worse by totally dopy canned poses. I've learned to see if there's a canned pose in my library that is a good starting point and go from there but none of the few renders I've made have simply had canned poses. All have taken quite a bit of fiddling to get the figure positioned the way I wanted.

 

[skylab]

I totally agree...a bad pose can ruin the best effort in lighting and rendering skills. That's why I try to do every day type things, things that people actually do....occasionally I release simple poses that folks can use as starter poses. I try to involve every body part....if the figure is slightly twisted, then begin at the waist, then the abdomen, then the chest, same with side to side movements...this helps the figure flow into position instead of appearing jerked out of shaped.

Working on up close poses for P11 Paul...I need a break from all the vehicle poses, to just do something fun. This set will be using Mark's free wooden chair. I want to keep working with the poses awhile so it may be a couple days before they are released. Just exploring bending capability...he reminds me of Roxie in ease of use, and I like his "normal-ness".

By the way, I've been using M4 Aram hair and M4 Beard with Beard Plus, scaled and parented to Paul's head in order to create a unique appearing character for the P11 release.

 

[skylab]

Finished the poses for Paul, uploaded to ShareCG.