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SKYLAB CHAT
- Thread starter skylab
- Start date
skylab
Esteemed
Hey Terre 
You know, I remember hearing people say spooky stuff about the Hair Room, but I had a ball with it, creating silly stuff. Of course it wasn't commercial quality, and I'm still learning new things about it, but what fun I would have missed if I had listened to that stuff. Same with dynamic clothing...have achieved some impressive results...and of course the mistakes can be hilarious, but who cares...the whole purpose is to have fun without getting stressed out about it. Animation is also an area that folks avoid...and my friend Sarah shoved me face first into that, and I'm still learning, and having a ball. So, it's in that spirit that I'm pursuing the Setup Room. And I'm hoping that you'll keep me from leading folks in the wrong direction with it...or if there are other free utilities that will do the same thing, or even better, then share the tips. It can be a learning experience for everyone.
I'm setting up Poser 7 now, and unzipped the PHI builder in the same directory with the Poser executable as instructed. UV Mapper Classic is installed, and I've put the Mr Humpty (remember him?) .obj file in the Geometries, assuming that's where he will need to be.
Art Weaver 6 Free is a newer version that what's in the support files, so folks might prefer getting that. It appears to be similar to the free program PhotoFiltre 6.53 that I use all the time.
I thought that Mr Humpty could get along compatibly within Nursoda's village, especially his more recent characters. I'm thinking that if this project is successful, it's possible that he could also be a good candidate for a Poser hair-do And again, if the rigging is successful, then it would be an incentive for me to get back to modeling...then I could create original characters. But first step in the parade is conquering the setup room...without it, everything else sort of fizzles out. So let's hope that Mr Humpty is a success
MR HUMPTY
You know, I remember hearing people say spooky stuff about the Hair Room, but I had a ball with it, creating silly stuff. Of course it wasn't commercial quality, and I'm still learning new things about it, but what fun I would have missed if I had listened to that stuff. Same with dynamic clothing...have achieved some impressive results...and of course the mistakes can be hilarious, but who cares...the whole purpose is to have fun without getting stressed out about it. Animation is also an area that folks avoid...and my friend Sarah shoved me face first into that, and I'm still learning, and having a ball. So, it's in that spirit that I'm pursuing the Setup Room. And I'm hoping that you'll keep me from leading folks in the wrong direction with it...or if there are other free utilities that will do the same thing, or even better, then share the tips. It can be a learning experience for everyone.I'm setting up Poser 7 now, and unzipped the PHI builder in the same directory with the Poser executable as instructed. UV Mapper Classic is installed, and I've put the Mr Humpty (remember him?) .obj file in the Geometries, assuming that's where he will need to be.
Art Weaver 6 Free is a newer version that what's in the support files, so folks might prefer getting that. It appears to be similar to the free program PhotoFiltre 6.53 that I use all the time.
I thought that Mr Humpty could get along compatibly within Nursoda's village, especially his more recent characters. I'm thinking that if this project is successful, it's possible that he could also be a good candidate for a Poser hair-do
And again, if the rigging is successful, then it would be an incentive for me to get back to modeling...then I could create original characters. But first step in the parade is conquering the setup room...without it, everything else sort of fizzles out. So let's hope that Mr Humpty is a success MR HUMPTY
skylab
Esteemed
It's probably worth mentioning, you can read the first chapter of David D'Champs' beginner book on rigging on the Amazon page, by clicking on the "Look inside" link along the top of the picture of the book, on the top left of the page. The first chapter is a general intro, and clarifies the function of the utilities that he recommends. It says specifically, plainly, that PHI Builder is by Roy Riggs...so apparently the user comments that reflect not knowing where to find it perhaps skimmed over the information in the intro. That's why I like to take my time...and let things soak in, to avoid frustrating meltdowns.
I'm going to take a break now, since I've been at the monitor a number of hours reading and searching. I'll continue this later, after some rest. Have a good day everyone
I'm going to take a break now, since I've been at the monitor a number of hours reading and searching. I'll continue this later, after some rest. Have a good day everyone
skylab
Esteemed
I've been meaning to post this link....the MakeHuman website has moved, and the program is currently a 2017 release.
MakeHuman 1.1.1
Now I'm done....later
MakeHuman 1.1.1
Now I'm done....later
skylab
Esteemed
Nursoda's recent characters have reminded me of Mad Magazine's Horrifying Cliches, my favorite illustrations amid the vintage collection of mad-ness. If you are not familiar with Horrifying Cliches, here are a few links to view some examples
Alfred E. Newmhein
GETTING A CASE OF THE SCREAMING MEEMIES
TROUBLED BY A NAGGING DOUBT
RECALLING AN OLD INCIDENT
TOSSING OFF A COMPLIMENT
HATCHING A SCHEME
ESCAPING THE DOLDRUMS
SHRINKING FROM A LOATHSOME TASK
LABORING UNDER AN ILLUSION
BURYING A GRUDGE
DROWNING HIS SORROWS
LODGING A COMPLAINT
PRESERVING A FAMILY TRADITION
STRETCHING A POINT
Have a good evening everyone. I'll probably be back at it tomorrow evening
Alfred E. Newmhein
GETTING A CASE OF THE SCREAMING MEEMIES
TROUBLED BY A NAGGING DOUBT
RECALLING AN OLD INCIDENT
TOSSING OFF A COMPLIMENT
HATCHING A SCHEME
ESCAPING THE DOLDRUMS
SHRINKING FROM A LOATHSOME TASK
LABORING UNDER AN ILLUSION
BURYING A GRUDGE
DROWNING HIS SORROWS
LODGING A COMPLAINT
PRESERVING A FAMILY TRADITION
STRETCHING A POINT
Have a good evening everyone. I'll probably be back at it tomorrow evening
skylab
Esteemed
Oh wow, thanks Janet I appreciate any help anybody can offer....thank you so much! I was going to take a break this evening in order to rest my eyes...I get the monitor fuzzies after awhile, and reading gets difficult until I rest. Once I rest, I can hit studying again.
I'm very interested in how prop models are rigged (correctly) as well, like doors that open and shut. All of the little props that I used to make were always in parts, then I'd just put the parts together in the scene and use rotation for instance to achieve animation, like with the lighthouse...the light spins inside the lighthouse through being Y-rotated...but it does require the pieces being manually fit together. A better way would have been to have rigged the light inside the house, so assembly would be unnecessary. So it's wonderful if I can go back and turn some of those old models into rigged props This is exciting, can't wait to try it. I've got errands I have to run during the morning hours, so I can't get back to playing until the evening. I'll take time to view your video now so I can be thinking about the information in it while I'm out and about this morning....so again, thanks bunches 
I appreciate any help anybody can offer....thank you so much! I was going to take a break this evening in order to rest my eyes...I get the monitor fuzzies after awhile, and reading gets difficult until I rest. Once I rest, I can hit studying again.I'm very interested in how prop models are rigged (correctly) as well, like doors that open and shut. All of the little props that I used to make were always in parts, then I'd just put the parts together in the scene and use rotation for instance to achieve animation, like with the lighthouse...the light spins inside the lighthouse through being Y-rotated...but it does require the pieces being manually fit together. A better way would have been to have rigged the light inside the house, so assembly would be unnecessary. So it's wonderful if I can go back and turn some of those old models into rigged props
This is exciting, can't wait to try it. I've got errands I have to run during the morning hours, so I can't get back to playing until the evening. I'll take time to view your video now so I can be thinking about the information in it while I'm out and about this morning....so again, thanks bunches
skylab
Esteemed
Well, I've just successfully rigged my first character. I'm in shock...partly because it worked, and partly because the process is nothing like I anticipated. I thought that perhaps the .obj model would be imported into the setup room and bones applied in order to accomplish rigging. But with the process that I just did, following the first three chapters in D'Champs' rigging book, the .obj is imported first into UV Mapper Classic where the body parts are dissected and assigned, saved to a new .obj, and then the new .obj is imported into PHI Builder where joint rotation and proper hierarchy is established, then saved to the new .obj file. Then the saved PHI file is imported into Poser under File -> Convert Hier File, and BAM, you have your first rigged character. It was all text work...no drawing bones in the setup room. There is a sample .obj file included in the book's support files called Box Man. This is the tutorial .obj used in the first three chapters of the book, and here's Box Man, rigged and ready to go This poor book will be a wreck by the time I get through it, since I'm having to refer to the instructions often. Okay, back to work
This poor book will be a wreck by the time I get through it, since I'm having to refer to the instructions often. Okay, back to work
skylab
Esteemed
After testing Mr Humpty in UV Mapper, his large abdomen prevents easy selection of his arms, so I'm think he may have to be done partly in UV Mapper, then completed in the setup room, so he will have to be done later after some experience. With that in mind, I searched Turbosquid for free .obj models that appear to be original (that is, have several angle views or a snapshot in the modeling program), and these appeared to be good candidates for beginner rigging projects.
TWO RATS
HUMANOID BIRD
YOUNG BOY
GERGO
DUNCE (SLUG) - would go well with Nursoda's new characters
TROPICAL FISH PACK
...and a good free light set to use for underwater fish scenes:
UNDERWATER LIGHT (what I used in the Finding Folbat animation, along with an underwater .jpg in the background)
...and a low-seated chair prop, might be great for small characters:
CHAIR
TurboSquid free models begin on this page, and go on for 191 pages...it takes some concentration to pick out good .obj models from all the .max and .c4d stuff, but it's worth the time...some good original props and character models there. Just avoid stuff that appears to be poorly converted or pirated.
I'm off to rest my eyes today...so I'll check in later...have a good day everyone
TWO RATS
HUMANOID BIRD
YOUNG BOY
GERGO
DUNCE (SLUG) - would go well with Nursoda's new characters
TROPICAL FISH PACK
...and a good free light set to use for underwater fish scenes:
UNDERWATER LIGHT (what I used in the Finding Folbat animation, along with an underwater .jpg in the background)
...and a low-seated chair prop, might be great for small characters:
CHAIR
TurboSquid free models begin on this page, and go on for 191 pages...it takes some concentration to pick out good .obj models from all the .max and .c4d stuff, but it's worth the time...some good original props and character models there. Just avoid stuff that appears to be poorly converted or pirated.
I'm off to rest my eyes today...so I'll check in later...have a good day everyone
Last edited:
skylab
Esteemed
I'll try again on the TurboSquid free models link, the other link seemed to lead to commercial products.
And, a few more .obj models for rigging practice.
STICKMAN CHARACTER
BIKER
DUMMY (like Manny)
SNOWMAN
GOLDEN FISH
LUMBERJACK
POPEYE
OLIVE
WORKER/FARMER
Okay, that completes the list of models I'll be testing first.
Later . . .
And, a few more .obj models for rigging practice.
STICKMAN CHARACTER
BIKER
DUMMY (like Manny)
SNOWMAN
GOLDEN FISH
LUMBERJACK
POPEYE
OLIVE
WORKER/FARMER
Okay, that completes the list of models I'll be testing first.
Later . . .
Terre
Renowned
A customer gave me a laugh this morning.
What he had was the seedpod of a Devil's Claw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proboscidea_(plant) which he had sprayed gold and glued two little eyes to (The kind that are hemispheres with a white back and little circles of black plastic inside that are loose to move around.) just below the part where two of the claws diverge. To me the result was surprising, amusing, and cute. Not something I'd be interested in buying though.
I think Parviflora is the specific variety.
What he had was the seedpod of a Devil's Claw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proboscidea_(plant) which he had sprayed gold and glued two little eyes to (The kind that are hemispheres with a white back and little circles of black plastic inside that are loose to move around.) just below the part where two of the claws diverge. To me the result was surprising, amusing, and cute. Not something I'd be interested in buying though.
I think Parviflora is the specific variety.
skylab
Esteemed
Hey Terre You mean like McGyver's Googly Eyes ? Haha
Well, I've had experience now in dealing with what I used to see on endless forum discussions...the woes of tris vs quads. Most, but perhaps not all, of the models listed above should be checked for this before beginning a rigging project. I had completely worked through rigging the young man model, thinking he'd be perfect as a long-legged dancer...and then had it crash in Poser 7. Disappointing, because the Hierarchy was appearing correct, and the rotations were set correctly. Tri modeling leaves a lot of jagged edges between body sections to deal with...quads leave a nice, clean boundary between them. So, I thought I had invested some time to have lots of free models to play with....but I may not have squat...just some nice props that I collected at the same time. Also, because some models were conversions, the creators didn't think to separate groups of models, and just exported them out in groups (what were they thinking?). I was very hopeful that the Stickman Character would be excellent....but it was exported in a group of three, posed like the promo, which trashed their ability to be rigged for another program...I successfully separated one from the group in Hexagon, but the pose had his legs squeezed together too closely for UV Mapper dissection. Again, what were they thinking? There was a Clothed Stickman model that showed possibility, but the dense mesh appeared to be tris, and I didn't want to waste time working over it if it was doomed to fail. I suppose I could practice on older, already rigged models that don't require clothing. I'll have to pause the rigging project long enough to think through what to do next. I'll try searching ShareCG one more time for unrigged characters specifically created for Poser use.
I wouldn't call rigging "difficult" at this point, just "intense" in terms of concentration. It reminds me of work I've done in the past at the hospital, intensely monitoring the system for errors, and doing corrections. One has to be alert and well stocked with Eye Lubricant to do that kind of task for hours. PHI Builder language also reminds me of the old DOS WordPerfect 5.0 program...long before our current point and click candy software...haha. There was a feature in DOS WordPerfect called Reveal Codes....I loved that thing, and kept it on always...it showed every hidden command in the text, making it easy to find the mysterious text command errors that would occasionally accumulate within a much-edited document. PHI Builder reminded me of working in Reveal Codes, or similar to writing old HTML, which I liked...I could <BR> all night long...haha. Back when Geocities free sites were on Yahoo, I'd build entire pages in HTML text, never opening the drag and drop editor. So I'm far more comfortable with PHI Builder than facing an unfamiliar environment in the Setup Room. And, it's best to learn "the right way" to do things in terms of staying within conventional hierarchy naming, and now I know from a little experience why I've observed some older models that didn't necessarily follow this, like order and naming of rotations for instance, or using rHand, lHand, etc. Slon is an example of unusual naming and rotation order....everything works properly, but some of it is quite different. I've used Slon so much, I can pose him in my sleep...but a new user might wonder what ShakeIt and Paranoid means in his head rigging...haha...taking the place of the usual Twist and SideToSide. I've always thought that the conventional naming used on most commercial models was a bit unclear...I think of it as HeadTurn and HeadAngle...so I have my own posing language like Nursoda used sometimes. If I remember correctly, there is also something different about Slon's ears...the left and the right side are slightly different....so I guess a fun project would be to create a Slon with customized hierarchy.
You mean like McGyver's Googly Eyes ? Haha Well, I've had experience now in dealing with what I used to see on endless forum discussions...the woes of tris vs quads. Most, but perhaps not all, of the models listed above should be checked for this before beginning a rigging project. I had completely worked through rigging the young man model, thinking he'd be perfect as a long-legged dancer...and then had it crash in Poser 7. Disappointing, because the Hierarchy was appearing correct, and the rotations were set correctly. Tri modeling leaves a lot of jagged edges between body sections to deal with...quads leave a nice, clean boundary between them. So, I thought I had invested some time to have lots of free models to play with....but I may not have squat...just some nice props that I collected at the same time. Also, because some models were conversions, the creators didn't think to separate groups of models, and just exported them out in groups (what were they thinking?). I was very hopeful that the Stickman Character would be excellent....but it was exported in a group of three, posed like the promo, which trashed their ability to be rigged for another program...I successfully separated one from the group in Hexagon, but the pose had his legs squeezed together too closely for UV Mapper dissection. Again, what were they thinking? There was a Clothed Stickman model that showed possibility, but the dense mesh appeared to be tris, and I didn't want to waste time working over it if it was doomed to fail. I suppose I could practice on older, already rigged models that don't require clothing. I'll have to pause the rigging project long enough to think through what to do next. I'll try searching ShareCG one more time for unrigged characters specifically created for Poser use.
I wouldn't call rigging "difficult" at this point, just "intense" in terms of concentration. It reminds me of work I've done in the past at the hospital, intensely monitoring the system for errors, and doing corrections. One has to be alert and well stocked with Eye Lubricant to do that kind of task for hours. PHI Builder language also reminds me of the old DOS WordPerfect 5.0 program...long before our current point and click candy software...haha. There was a feature in DOS WordPerfect called Reveal Codes....I loved that thing, and kept it on always...it showed every hidden command in the text, making it easy to find the mysterious text command errors that would occasionally accumulate within a much-edited document. PHI Builder reminded me of working in Reveal Codes, or similar to writing old HTML, which I liked...I could <BR> all night long...haha. Back when Geocities free sites were on Yahoo, I'd build entire pages in HTML text, never opening the drag and drop editor. So I'm far more comfortable with PHI Builder than facing an unfamiliar environment in the Setup Room. And, it's best to learn "the right way" to do things in terms of staying within conventional hierarchy naming, and now I know from a little experience why I've observed some older models that didn't necessarily follow this, like order and naming of rotations for instance, or using rHand, lHand, etc. Slon is an example of unusual naming and rotation order....everything works properly, but some of it is quite different. I've used Slon so much, I can pose him in my sleep...but a new user might wonder what ShakeIt and Paranoid means in his head rigging...haha...taking the place of the usual Twist and SideToSide. I've always thought that the conventional naming used on most commercial models was a bit unclear...I think of it as HeadTurn and HeadAngle...so I have my own posing language like Nursoda used sometimes. If I remember correctly, there is also something different about Slon's ears...the left and the right side are slightly different....so I guess a fun project would be to create a Slon with customized hierarchy.