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Show Us Your Dawn Renders!
- Thread starter HiveWire3D
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- dawn dawn special edition
Me195
Extraordinary
Thank you very much.
Hornet3d
Wise
I like your render and the fact that you used it to vent your anger to some degree. I think the products here are great but a lot of it is dynamic and a lot of artists do not use it and don't really look too hard. I used to be very much like that, although I would never be critical of a product just because I do not understand it or would not use it. Thanks to Hivewire team, the vendors and members here, I now use dynamic clothing on a regular basis but the conforming clothing here is every bit as usable.
Those people who only give Hivewire a passing look I think might miss the fact that it is more than a place to spend money. It is a community in a way that other marketplaces are not, or were and now cease to be. It is never worth arguing in forums as people take up positions they are not prepared to move from and they become very combative. It can be clearly seen elsewhere that the end result is everyone looses and the community falls apart. Happily I have never found Hivewire forums to be combative, just a nice place to share your views, your art and even your problems at times.
When I see comments such as those you refer to I do not feel anger but sadness for I know just how much such people are missing out by not spending time here. Very sad, but, in the end it is their choice.
Love this comment Hornet, and also Me195.
It's so much easier for some people to be mean. It can be a challenge for many to be nice, civil, polite, and supportive. I love hearing that this place is somewhere for folks to share ideas, to be helpful, and empathetic, rather than pathetic.
As far as tubular content, or content of an inferior quality. We all have to start from somewhere anyway. Those of us that create content grow as we go. Do we have some content that is perhaps of a lesser quality than others? Certainly so. Big deal, so what! For the most part we have and offer solid product here. Can some of the imagery be of a higher quality? Certainly so. But to "poo poo" on HiveWire content and the store as a whole is indeed unfortunate, and an unfair statement made by several that prefer not to explore and search for the truth.
Listen you people of other sites that don't care to frequent HiveWire. We're the only content creating company that is producing core figures that are sustainable for both Poser and Studio, and if it's important for you to see new and improved core animal content (for example) that is the best produced anywhere, then you should get on board and embrace what we're striving to do here at HiveWire. Rather than do what is easy and continue to drop overarching and unsupported statements on us.
We are here for all people, and our content offering at HiveWire is of a superior quality. Look at this statement from a prominent artist that produces elsewhere and decided to give Dawn a try.
"And wow talk about the bends! Thighs look amazing. I expected… um… I won’t say. Not this, thats for sure. Shoulder rotations are great. Hands and ankle joint rots are smooth as butter.. wow. You guys did a great job with the tech. I honestly didn’t know. I really didn’t. I spent too long listening to influences I should have been questioning and I have no one to blame but myself for that.
Seriously. I apologize for every assumption I ever made about this figure. I was wrong. I am sorry. Really good job with Dawn SE, guys!!"
This statement to me wraps up very nicely what the perception is out there in the misinformation abyss. If folks really want the truth of our content they only need to give Dawn, Dusk or any other content a try. I love this part again from the artist statement-
"I honestly didn’t know. I really didn’t. I spent too long listening to influences I should have been questioning and I have no one to blame but myself for that. Seriously. I apologize for every assumption I ever made about this figure. I was wrong. I am sorry."
It's so much easier for some people to be mean. It can be a challenge for many to be nice, civil, polite, and supportive. I love hearing that this place is somewhere for folks to share ideas, to be helpful, and empathetic, rather than pathetic.
As far as tubular content, or content of an inferior quality. We all have to start from somewhere anyway. Those of us that create content grow as we go. Do we have some content that is perhaps of a lesser quality than others? Certainly so. Big deal, so what! For the most part we have and offer solid product here. Can some of the imagery be of a higher quality? Certainly so. But to "poo poo" on HiveWire content and the store as a whole is indeed unfortunate, and an unfair statement made by several that prefer not to explore and search for the truth.
Listen you people of other sites that don't care to frequent HiveWire. We're the only content creating company that is producing core figures that are sustainable for both Poser and Studio, and if it's important for you to see new and improved core animal content (for example) that is the best produced anywhere, then you should get on board and embrace what we're striving to do here at HiveWire. Rather than do what is easy and continue to drop overarching and unsupported statements on us.
We are here for all people, and our content offering at HiveWire is of a superior quality. Look at this statement from a prominent artist that produces elsewhere and decided to give Dawn a try.
"And wow talk about the bends! Thighs look amazing. I expected… um… I won’t say. Not this, thats for sure. Shoulder rotations are great. Hands and ankle joint rots are smooth as butter.. wow. You guys did a great job with the tech. I honestly didn’t know. I really didn’t. I spent too long listening to influences I should have been questioning and I have no one to blame but myself for that.
Seriously. I apologize for every assumption I ever made about this figure. I was wrong. I am sorry. Really good job with Dawn SE, guys!!"
This statement to me wraps up very nicely what the perception is out there in the misinformation abyss. If folks really want the truth of our content they only need to give Dawn, Dusk or any other content a try. I love this part again from the artist statement-
"I honestly didn’t know. I really didn’t. I spent too long listening to influences I should have been questioning and I have no one to blame but myself for that. Seriously. I apologize for every assumption I ever made about this figure. I was wrong. I am sorry."
Indeed, there is some widespread misinformation being spread all over the web about HW and Dawn. I was very surprised to find that also happening at the SMS forums in early 2016, since what they say has some weight over the Poser community. There is a chance that was caused by SMS trying to push their own figures, who knows? I know Dawn is not perfect, and I have pointed out some of her issues in some occasions, but it's definitely nothing like what I've heard over there. But since those things wore being said by the admins and moderators, a lot of people decided to follow the herd, and that's understandable.
I won't try to convince anyone or try to change their minds about Dawn. I instead show what I can do with her in my DA gallery, and let people jump to their own conclusions. People who know me have seen I cover a wide range of character styles, and since 2013, I have been doing it with Dawn almost exclusively. All I can say is that I could do more character styles with Dawn than I did with V4. To me I only care about the results, and Dawn delivers. My motto is that showing is believing.
In one of my more recent renders, I've got comments such as "How did you do something like that with Dawn?", where they assumed Dawn was not supposed to be able to do it. These people are CONVINCED that Dawn is not capable of achieving anything, because that's what they heard elsewhere. Like they say, if you hear something enough times, it becomes the truth to you. And then they see my gallery, and keep asking me the same question: "How did you do it?".
One could think that "seeing is believing", but they still refuse to give Dawn a try by making all sorts of excuses, to include complains about the HW store. Some of these complains came from people who admittedly never bought anything from HW, so here again, misinformation has been repeated so often that it became true to them. We came to a point where they don't believe it even when they see it.
It's not like people believe anything they hear, but instead, it depends a lot on WHO is saying it. Like when Adobe Flash was threatening the Apple (and Google) Store by dominating 78% of the market for decades - they used Steve Jobs to claim that Flash was evil, and everybody instantly agreed, ignoring decades of what they already knew about it. Here again, the only ones who disagreed were the ones who actually used it. This is how Apple and Google defeated the market leader in web apps - with a lie said by a person people trusted.
Looks like the only thing keeping Dawn from rising above the crowd are these well placed lies, spread by people at key positions. I saw this in 1st hand at the Poser 11 release event last year, and, of course, from DAZ for the obvious reasons. Their biggest fear is when people give Dawn a try - for *then* we hear them apologizing for what they said in the past.
I won't try to convince anyone or try to change their minds about Dawn. I instead show what I can do with her in my DA gallery, and let people jump to their own conclusions. People who know me have seen I cover a wide range of character styles, and since 2013, I have been doing it with Dawn almost exclusively. All I can say is that I could do more character styles with Dawn than I did with V4. To me I only care about the results, and Dawn delivers. My motto is that showing is believing.
In one of my more recent renders, I've got comments such as "How did you do something like that with Dawn?", where they assumed Dawn was not supposed to be able to do it. These people are CONVINCED that Dawn is not capable of achieving anything, because that's what they heard elsewhere. Like they say, if you hear something enough times, it becomes the truth to you. And then they see my gallery, and keep asking me the same question: "How did you do it?".
One could think that "seeing is believing", but they still refuse to give Dawn a try by making all sorts of excuses, to include complains about the HW store. Some of these complains came from people who admittedly never bought anything from HW, so here again, misinformation has been repeated so often that it became true to them. We came to a point where they don't believe it even when they see it.
It's not like people believe anything they hear, but instead, it depends a lot on WHO is saying it. Like when Adobe Flash was threatening the Apple (and Google) Store by dominating 78% of the market for decades - they used Steve Jobs to claim that Flash was evil, and everybody instantly agreed, ignoring decades of what they already knew about it. Here again, the only ones who disagreed were the ones who actually used it. This is how Apple and Google defeated the market leader in web apps - with a lie said by a person people trusted.
Looks like the only thing keeping Dawn from rising above the crowd are these well placed lies, spread by people at key positions. I saw this in 1st hand at the Poser 11 release event last year, and, of course, from DAZ for the obvious reasons. Their biggest fear is when people give Dawn a try - for *then* we hear them apologizing for what they said in the past.
Hornet3d
Wise
I think what saddens me the most is that some artists are truly missing out by not using Dawn. If they have tried Dawn and the figure is not for them, so be it, we all have different needs and different goals. My concern is for the others that listen to, and believe the 'experts', without trying something for themselves. I tried the original Dawn and decided to stay with V4 but I tried Dawn SE and the improvements were clear and I rarely use V4 today. The biggest reason for me personally is that achieving some believable expression with Dawn SE is so much easier than with V4, all the improvements are just the icing on the cake.
Thanks to Hivewire I am having more fun with Poser than I was having a few years ago, I have a workable Dawn wardrobe at a fraction of the cost it would have taken for other figures. So I am clearly a Dawn fan, but more than that I am a Hivewire fan. I have found a place where others put an effort into encouraging and helping people not putting them down. A place where you can discuss the strengths and weakness of DS and Poser, and any other software, without the flame wars. More to the point often someone comes a long to suggest a workaround to some of those weaknesses. Hivewire is a place where the artist and the art is important which, unfortunately, seems to be very rare if not unique. I hope it continues and thrives for years to come.
Both additional comments are again well said.
I've recently read portions of a long thread over at Smith Micro, talking about upcoming figures that are being worked on elsewhere. I read that Dawn was "unworkable" or perhaps it was "unusable" in Poser. I thought bologna, who is propagating these lies? Where do they stem from? The competition? Those that have been previously mentioned, that have something to gain by trashing our Dawn? It was very frustrating to see this continue, because I know it's not true. I wanted to post right away that this is not true and that many good folks are using Dawn very successfully with brilliant results. Then I thought that I didn't even want to call attention to the thread, so I didn't post. I saw that a handful of people that visit here were witnessing the false dialog there, and perhaps they've been beaten down enough to let it all just go on as fact about our Dawn. It was frustrating all around.
Now, I'm thinking that I ought to back into that Smith Micro thread again and state the true facts.
I've recently read portions of a long thread over at Smith Micro, talking about upcoming figures that are being worked on elsewhere. I read that Dawn was "unworkable" or perhaps it was "unusable" in Poser. I thought bologna, who is propagating these lies? Where do they stem from? The competition? Those that have been previously mentioned, that have something to gain by trashing our Dawn? It was very frustrating to see this continue, because I know it's not true. I wanted to post right away that this is not true and that many good folks are using Dawn very successfully with brilliant results. Then I thought that I didn't even want to call attention to the thread, so I didn't post. I saw that a handful of people that visit here were witnessing the false dialog there, and perhaps they've been beaten down enough to let it all just go on as fact about our Dawn. It was frustrating all around.
Now, I'm thinking that I ought to back into that Smith Micro thread again and state the true facts.
I know the thread you're talking about Chris, as I visit that forum daily, and I know that some of our folks here have posted renders of Dawn there in several of the threads. It is disheartening to see them discount her, and I have a feeling a good many of them haven't been around long enough to remember V3, and V4 when she first came out. Neither was an instant winner, so why they think any "new" character would be is beyond me.
Hornet3d
Wise
The sad fact is that all those people who are being misled need to do is spend a few minutes browsing the forums here to see just how people are using Dawn in both Poser and D/S. People with very different aims, goals and skill sets who are all using Dawn to very good effect. If they then spent a little bit longer to see what else is available and in the pipeline and they will see Dawn is only a part, a big part maybe, in a very much bigger and growing story.
I have not seen the thread at Smith Micro but comparing Dawn with Pauline would prove an interesting exercise.
Mythocentric
Extraordinary
Well said you guys! Trouble is that most people don't think for themselves but prefer to be led by others and their often incorrect assumptions. Earlier this week I happened upon one of the old RDNA forums (I followed a link from one of the threads here but I can't for the life of me remember which one, for which my apologies) started by a newbee to 3D who asked for advice on which figures other users preferred. Needlessly, after a good start there were attempts by certain characters (who deserve to remain nameless and thereby ignored) to turn it into the stale old Daz versus Poser cliche with a side order of I use V4 because nobody uses Dawn, she's crap, etc. I wonder! If they are as well-informed as they claim to be, why are they unaware that both Vicky and Dawn were created by a certain Mr. Creek (or so I believe and would be happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong), and given the age difference between them that Dawn may take advantage of all the advances in technology and modelling skills made over that period. Fact is I am happy to use both but prefer Dawn, not because she's a Hivewire creation but because I like her and the things I can do with her without having to spend the (considerable) extra amounts of money I've spent just to get V4 to do the same! OK! V4 has a lot of extra content available over Dawn but the lady is in her early days and as content creators catch on I believe there will be quite a few characters out there changing their attitudes (whilst claiming thats what they said all along, of course). Toilet paper clothing? I've seen some dire stuff about but none of it for Dawn yet. I've have seen a lot of excellent clothing for Dawn, both conforming and dynamic (my own preference) from venders like our own Lully, Satira Capprichio and others and I would also note others outside the Hive like Tipol, Sshodan, etc who are turning their considerable skills in Dawns direction.
For myself, when I found Hivewire I had reached a point where I had become disenchanted with the whole 3D scene, and to be honest was about to give it up as futile given the infighting, snide attitudes and downright dishonesty prevelent on the various forums. Hivewire changed all that when I suddenly found myself confronted with not only a content provider but a place where I could share my work, discuss and learn from its members in a atmosphere of openess and friendship and where the guys at the top not only shared their work in progress with its members but actively sought those members advice and actively took part in the forums. That's a great rarity in this world and is one that deserves to succeed! Respect!
For myself, when I found Hivewire I had reached a point where I had become disenchanted with the whole 3D scene, and to be honest was about to give it up as futile given the infighting, snide attitudes and downright dishonesty prevelent on the various forums. Hivewire changed all that when I suddenly found myself confronted with not only a content provider but a place where I could share my work, discuss and learn from its members in a atmosphere of openess and friendship and where the guys at the top not only shared their work in progress with its members but actively sought those members advice and actively took part in the forums. That's a great rarity in this world and is one that deserves to succeed! Respect!
Hornet3d
Wise
That is so true and that was at a time when there was little in the way of true competition. Any new figure today is going to struggle and, in truth, is only going to grab a much smaller piece of the market than V4 because the market has moved on and fragmented. It is just a crying shame that many of the people using 3d software do not appear to have moved on any where near as much.
Hornet3d
Wise
I remember the thread and a few more along the same lines. We appeared to have traveled a similar path because I came close to looking for a new way spend my hobby time for pretty much the same reasons as you. Luckily, like you, I found Dawn and through her, Hivewire. They are almost certainly the only reason I am still playing in Poser today and having more fun than in the past.
I saw the thread, and those are the SAME words (unworkable/unusable) I've heard at the Poser 11 release event last year. People were repeating these same words all over the SMS forum, proving my theory that this was 2nd hand information just being repeated. If people REALLY disliked Dawn, each would have a different explanation, but they all seem to use the same words - the herd has spoken.
I have tried to disagree over there, but was massively flamed by the herd. The admins warned me to stop talking about Dawn, or else I could be suspended or even banned. They basically coerced me to shut up, claiming Dawn was off topic and therefore detracting from the subject (Pauline). We are only allowed to flame HW and Dawn, or else we are "detracting the subject". And note that I was threatened of suspension right on the 1st or 2nd post, where I said my experience with Dawn was completely different from what was being said there.
Considering WHO is spreading the lies over there, I am not sure if it's possible to clear this out in a civilized way when a single post started a war that almost got me kicked out of the SMS forms. People trust these guys, and are more than happy to repeat what they claim. I was not allowed to disagree, and nobody tried to back me up.
Hornet3d
Wise
I am not sure of the true origins of this quote but I heard it quoted by Desmond Tutu in a TV interview. - 'You can wake up someone who is asleep but not someone who is pretending to be asleep', somehow it seems to fit nicely with what is gong on in some quarters.
I don't go over there much...it's been 7 months since the last time...can anyone provide me with a link to this thread? I just had a quick look but couldn't locate it...
Nothing like Alternative Facts, right?
It is so disheartening for all these lies to be spread as truth in a forum that SHOULD be celebrating there is any store still producing figures and support for Poser.
It is so disheartening for all these lies to be spread as truth in a forum that SHOULD be celebrating there is any store still producing figures and support for Poser.
It's the "New Figures for Poser any updates?" thread. It's 24 pages long, so don't recall what page it all started to go south, but it's been quite a while.