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Show Us Your Dawn Renders!

phdubrov

Noteworthy
Contributing Artist
I also think that Superfly is not as advanced at this point in time as iRay, there certainly seem to be more iRay shaders on sale than Superfly.
To be precise:
there are only a handfull of Iray shaders on sale, shaders as in different node trees or different MDL files. There are a lot of materials based on Daz Iray Ubershader on sale. Same as was with 3DL - many materials packs and only a few really different shaders.

what is more advanced is tricky question. Iray is more physicall correct. It was made such, it was made for archviz and product renders. It allows measured materials and measured lights and so on. All this is aviable even in DS al long as you can work with Shader Mixer. Suprefly is Cycles-based, and Cycles is animation render at base level. So basicly you can't make precise diamond ring render, but have less troubles making believable skin.
 

Hornet3d

Distinguished
To be precise:
there are only a handfull of Iray shaders on sale, shaders as in different node trees or different MDL files. There are a lot of materials based on Daz Iray Ubershader on sale. Same as was with 3DL - many materials packs and only a few really different shaders.

what is more advanced is tricky question. Iray is more physicall correct. It was made such, it was made for archviz and product renders. It allows measured materials and measured lights and so on. All this is aviable even in DS al long as you can work with Shader Mixer. Suprefly is Cycles-based, and Cycles is animation render at base level. So basicly you can't make precise diamond ring render, but have less troubles making believable skin.
Thanks for that, I am certainly no expert and I am really only looking at the changes from the outside as I do not use DS or Poser 11. I am also probably a little away from the norm in that I am not trying to make my render photo realistic so I would not upgrade to Poser 11 just for Superfly. My perceptions are therefore based a lot on the materials on sale on one sites and the promos for some DS only items and some of promos for the DS sci-fi items are certainly impressive.

For the Superfly and iRay renders I have seen here I tend to prefer the iRay ones a little more but tI believe the iRay has been around a little longer in DS than Superfly has been in Poser so it could just be the users are slightly more experienced.
 

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
For the Superfly and iRay renders I have seen here I tend to prefer the iRay ones a little more but I believe the iRay has been around a little longer in DS than Superfly has been in Poser so it could just be the users are slightly more experienced.
Admitedly, I haven't played with Superfly much (only a couple of renders) but I think Iray is easier, I got good results with Iray from the start (but I've only been doing this a short while, I came in just as Iray did and I find lighting with the HDRi enviro to be easy for me than setting up lights manually :) not sure if Poser has the same thing as I haven't looked it up and I find Poser soooo confusing :p)
 

Hornet3d

Distinguished
Admitedly, I haven't played with Superfly much (only a couple of renders) but I think Iray is easier, I got good results with Iray from the start (but I've only been doing this a short while, I came in just as Iray did and I find lighting with the HDRi enviro to be easy for me than setting up lights manually :) not sure if Poser has the same thing as I haven't looked it up and I find Poser soooo confusing :p)
I think it is always easier if you know the base program and are just learning a different aspect of that program. It is even more difficult for me as I am really on the outside looking in through the window in respect of both iRay and Superfly. I have seen more examples of iRay renders so I get the impression, maybe wrongly, that is is easier to get to grips with. In the past I tended to gain information about new versions of Poser from the forums, sadly the two main ones I used are now dead, well one has gone and the other might as well be dead with a handful of posts each month. All of this makes it less likely that I will upgrade Poser as I really like to know what my hard earned cash is buying me.
 

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
I love Superfly and use it almost exclusively now. I find the conversion from Firefly to Superfly easy and painless.

Not to mention that a Superfly render doesn't take any longer than a well lit Firefly render does.
 

Lyne

Distinguished
HW Honey Bear
At my DeviantArt page --> Ken1171.deviantArt.com. :)[/QUOTE said:
Hmmm went there, but is there a reason your not uploading higher quality images? It's pretty pixelated there too... (when I clicked to see the semi larger version).
 

Mythocentric

Extraordinary
DAYLIGHT’S GATE. Harry and Dawn pause to greet the morning.


Daylight's Gate.jpg



Hivewire Horse and Dawn, Arabian for HW Horse, Classic Tack all from Chris Creek and the Team at Hivewire. Janet for Dawn + Rose ears by Virtual_World and LadyRaine Graphics (Hivewire3D). Finches in Flight by Ken Gilliland (Hivewire3D). Poses from A girl and her Horse by Morris (Hivewire3D). DejaVu Hair with FK Hair Fits for Dawn by Fabiana. Landscape: Deepwood Gorge by ShaaraMuse3D. Lights and Skydome by Colm. Dynamic dress from Royal Gowns Set 2 for V4 and Dawn by Sshodan.
 

Hornet3d

Distinguished
DAYLIGHT’S GATE. Harry and Dawn pause to greet the morning.


View attachment 21650


Hivewire Horse and Dawn, Arabian for HW Horse, Classic Tack all from Chris Creek and the Team at Hivewire. Janet for Dawn + Rose ears by Virtual_World and LadyRaine Graphics (Hivewire3D). Finches in Flight by Ken Gilliland (Hivewire3D). Poses from A girl and her Horse by Morris (Hivewire3D). DejaVu Hair with FK Hair Fits for Dawn by Fabiana. Landscape: Deepwood Gorge by ShaaraMuse3D. Lights and Skydome by Colm. Dynamic dress from Royal Gowns Set 2 for V4 and Dawn by Sshodan.
Very nice selection of textures really suits the nature of the scene.
 

Mythocentric

Extraordinary
Thanks Hornet and Rae! I wasn't sure if I was pushing the symbolism a bit too far with the rose pink gown but it is a colour we frequently see in the sunrise's around here.

Just for the record, the title and image, Daylight's Gate is inspired by a real place on Pendle Hill close to where I lived for a while. It's a small gorge on the skyline of Pendle best seen from the west which catches and reflects the rising sun on it's rocky walls well before the sun itself comes into view, hence the name which has been in use since at least Medieval times. Quite a spectacular sight in the right conditions and a place long associated with Faerie! :sun:
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
That is worth remembering, in this case the time went from 2 minutes to over 3 minutes, more than 50% just by a change of camera angle. An extra minute may not be much but the camera angle may be very important for those of us that don't have such lightning fast rigs.
One thing that can speed up PBR is to use a closed environment, so that the casted rays have something to hit and bounce back. In my tests with Superfly, it can easily cut rendering times by as much as 60%. That makes no difference in Octane, though, because it has a built-in physical sky. If we use a closed environment with it, distante lights can't pass through and the scene goes pitch black. This is more for the likes of Cycles and iRay.

If you notice though the camera is closer to the hair. Hair, transparency maps of any kind, will slow down a render.
Indeed both Cycles and iRay get a spike in rendering times when we have a lot of transparency to render. Octane is basically unaffected by that, though. Depends on the renderer.

Being a Poser only user I don't have access iRay. I know there is Superfly but I didn't upgrade Poser this time around and I also think that Superfly is not as advanced at this point in time as iRay, there certainly seem to be more iRay shaders on sale than Superfly.
Both iRay and Cycles are "advanced" in the sense that they are both PBR solutions. On one hand, iRay is financed by a major corporation, while Cycles is homebrewed by community effort and is still under development. For instance, Cycles still has no support for a shadow catcher, micropoly displacement, or caustics, but it is certain that all of these will be added over time. What's really good about Poser adopting Cycles instead of iRay is that Blender3D has a huge community, so we can share shaders between Cycles and Superfly.

To be precise:
there are only a handfull of Iray shaders on sale, shaders as in different node trees or different MDL files. There are a lot of materials based on Daz Iray Ubershader on sale. Same as was with 3DL - many materials packs and only a few really different shaders.

what is more advanced is tricky question. Iray is more physicall correct. It was made such, it was made for archviz and product renders. It allows measured materials and measured lights and so on. All this is aviable even in DS al long as you can work with Shader Mixer. Suprefly is Cycles-based, and Cycles is animation render at base level. So basicly you can't make precise diamond ring render, but have less troubles making believable skin.
The reason why we don't hear much about commercial Superfly shaders is that they need no conversion in Poser. All Poser materials already work in Cycles, so there is no need to create Cycles-specific shaders, UNLESS we are dealing with very specific surfaces such as glass or metals, which are better handled in PBR for the obvious reasons. For the record, Cycles supports physical lights just like iRay, so one is not better than the other in this particular aspect. Both also use the exact same kinds of lights that are typical of PBR. The real difference between them is the way the math is calculated with the interactions between lights and surfaces. This is what makes the visual differences on the renders between Octane, iRay, Cycles and Lux. From this bunch, Lux is the most accurate (by design) when it comes to illumination realism. NVidia has some interesting approach for cloth rendering that was introduced in iRay, so each have their own strengths.

Admitedly, I haven't played with Superfly much (only a couple of renders) but I think Iray is easier, I got good results with Iray from the start (but I've only been doing this a short while, I came in just as Iray did and I find lighting with the HDRi enviro to be easy for me than setting up lights manually :) not sure if Poser has the same thing as I haven't looked it up and I find Poser soooo confusing :p)
I have tried both, and I have to admit this is not a fair comparison. All my existing Poser shaders render beautifully in Cycles off the shelf - no conversions needed. Poser RSR shaders have all been seamlessly integrated into Cycles, so we don't actually have to do anything for them to work in either Firefly or Superfly. When it comes to iRay, it's the exact opposite. None of my 3Delight shaders work in MDL, so I have to redo them every time, like I do with Octane.

So which one is "easier"? The one where I don't have to do anything to use my shaders in both rendering engines. This is probably why there isn't a great demand for Cycles shaders in the Poser community. Your existing shaders will work in Cycles - EXCEPT for those that make no sense with the way PBR works. It's not that it's incompatible, but instead that PBR only understands materials that make sense in the real world. The default Dawn SE shaders for Poser are an example of that, where it tries to connect a Blinn node into an alternate diffuse, which makes no sense in physically-based rendering. If we just disconnect the Blinn node, it all works nicely. If I were in iRay, I would have to recreate all the shaders in MDL architecture, like it is with Octane.

Superfly also allows CAs to create both SF and FF shaders and put them into a single material with 2 root nodes, so we only distribute 1 material for both SF and FF. When Poser reads the material, it automatically picks the right one for the rendering engine currently selected - the user doesn't have to do anything on their side. In DS we have to create 2 separate sets of materials: 1 for 3Delight and 1 for MDL. It's up to the user to pick the right set for the rendering engine they want to use. Which one is easier for both CAs and costumers? :)
 
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Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
This is Dawn wearing my MK-1 uniform and headgear with the data modules attached, rendered in Poser with Octane. I originally created the outfit for Aiko3 like a decade ago, and I kind of forgot about it. The headgear is more recent, created for a commission job. The face is a custom morph I made last year. ^^

Police_1200.jpg
 

Hornet3d

Distinguished
One thing that can speed up PBR is to use a closed environment, so that the casted rays have something to hit and bounce back. In my tests with Superfly, it can easily cut rendering times by as much as 60%. That makes no difference in Octane, though, because it has a built-in physical sky. If we use a closed environment with it, distante lights can't pass through and the scene goes pitch black. This is more for the likes of Cycles and iRay.



Indeed both Cycles and iRay get a spike in rendering times when we have a lot of transparency to render. Octane is basically unaffected by that, though. Depends on the renderer.



Both iRay and Cycles are "advanced" in the sense that they are both PBR solutions. On one hand, iRay is financed by a major corporation, while Cycles is homebrewed by community effort and is still under development. For instance, Cycles still has no support for a shadow catcher, micropoly displacement, or caustics, but it is certain that all of these will be added over time. What's really good about Poser adopting Cycles instead of iRay is that Blender3D has a huge community, so we can share shaders between Cycles and Superfly.? :)
Thanks you for the detailed description and comparisons, as a Poser users I would be drawn to Superfly if I was to be drawn at all but it is nice to know about the strengths and weaknesses of other render engines.
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
Thanks you for the detailed description and comparisons, as a Poser users I would be drawn to Superfly if I was to be drawn at all but it is nice to know about the strengths and weaknesses of other render engines.
Superfly can reuse all Poser RSR shaders without changes (assuming it makes sense in PBR). For Poser users that means they don't need to know anything about Cycles-specific shader nodes if they don't want to - at least at first. There is also a kind of all-in-one root node called "Physical Surface" that allows a large amount of versatility with minimum effort in Superfly. This is NOT a Cycles shader, but instead a generic root node that is dedicated to PBR shaders. It supports but doesn't require Cycles shaders, so we can use regular Poser RSR nodes if you prefer (and I do). It greatly simplifies things, like we can create SSS skin by just setting a single digit on it. It also makes it very simple to create realistic metals and glass with no extra nodes attached. As opposed to DAZ3D tutorials, which are almost all rather expensive, SMS offers a FREE webinar where they explain everything you need to know about the Physical Surface root node. This has introduced a huge simplification in my shaders, where I can replace large numbers of nodes with just a couple, and get the same (or better) effect in Superfly.

For those who claim they won't upgrade to Poser 11 "just because" of Cycles, they are missing a load of new functionality that SMS has introduced in this version, and even more features added in the 5 service releases we had so far. I admit most of the ones I care about are on the content creation side, like, for instance, Poser 11 has introduced automatic transfer of the "Smoothing Scale" zones when rigging new outfits, which was never possible until now. Body scaling doesn't work in Poser outfits without this, so it's big deal to me. I use that a lot in my personal renders, and until now, Poser outfits didn't support it.

As for a closed environment for Cycles, we have the FREE EZDome for Poser, which simplifies things with PBR HDRI rendering, and also speeds it up considerably. I strongly recommend it! ^___^
 

Hornet3d

Distinguished
Superfly can reuse all Poser RSR shaders without changes (assuming it makes sense in PBR). For Poser users that means they don't need to know anything about Cycles-specific shader nodes if they don't want to - at least at first. There is also a kind of all-in-one root node called "Physical Surface" that allows a large amount of versatility with minimum effort in Superfly. This is NOT a Cycles shader, but instead a generic root node that is dedicated to PBR shaders. It supports but doesn't require Cycles shaders, so we can use regular Poser RSR nodes if you prefer (and I do). It greatly simplifies things, like we can create SSS skin by just setting a single digit on it. It also makes it very simple to create realistic metals and glass with no extra nodes attached. As opposed to DAZ3D tutorials, which are almost all rather expensive, SMS offers a FREE webinar where they explain everything you need to know about the Physical Surface root node. This has introduced a huge simplification in my shaders, where I can replace large numbers of nodes with just a couple, and get the same (or better) effect in Superfly.

For those who claim they won't upgrade to Poser 11 "just because" of Cycles, they are missing a load of new functionality that SMS has introduced in this version, and even more features added in the 5 service releases we had so far. I admit most of the ones I care about are on the content creation side, like, for instance, Poser 11 has introduced automatic transfer of the "Smoothing Scale" zones when rigging new outfits, which was never possible until now. Body scaling doesn't work in Poser outfits without this, so it's big deal to me. I use that a lot in my personal renders, and until now, Poser outfits didn't support it.

As for a closed environment for Cycles, we have the FREE EZDome for Poser, which simplifies things with PBR HDRI rendering, and also speeds it up considerably. I strongly recommend it! ^___^
Again thank you for the information it is nice have further details on Superfly and, no doubt I will be playing with it ast some point in the future, however my reasons for not upgrading to Poser 11 was nothing to do with Cycles ( I know you were not suggesting it was in my case) and more to do with other factors. There are parts of Poser 11 I do not like and many parts I decided I that, while they were an improvement were not enough to justify the upgrade price. Purely a personal decision based on my views and the type of scenes that I render.
 

Mythocentric

Extraordinary
As for a closed environment for Cycles, we have the FREE EZDome for Poser, which simplifies things with PBR HDRI rendering, and also speeds it up considerably. I strongly recommend it! ^___^
Just to save my sanity could you provide us with a link or tell us if EZDome is actually still available. I've carried out a goodly number of searches including over the last hour and zilch. No clues or working links in the Poser forums and Snarly's freebie links is closed. Nice to have as you say but not if you can't acquire it! :confused:
 

Lyne

Distinguished
HW Honey Bear
This is Dawn wearing my MK-1 uniform and headgear with the data modules attached, rendered in Poser with Octane. I originally created the outfit for Aiko3 like a decade ago, and I kind of forgot about it. The headgear is more recent, created for a commission job. The face is a custom morph I made last year. ^^

View attachment 21718
now this I REALLY like! :) and love the higher jpg quality too, Ken! :)
 

Lyne

Distinguished
HW Honey Bear
This was just a test... leave it to me to post work a test render! LOL! I'm creating several Dawn's for my HUGE Molar Island scene I'm working on! :)
DawnViolenTest.jpg

don't ask me what morph I used on Dawn... kept changing and she's sort of 'my' Elven character now... but with either Soraka or Face of Asia skin.. I forget which of that too.. (time to open P3do!) Anyway, thanks for the violin freebie in the store.... I did adjust the pose for it...combined it with IDG's sitting cross-legged pose... OH and before you ask, that is Murielle (spell?) hair for V4. :) and of course Lully's dress... and Maiden texture on it....
 
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