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Poser 11 SR3 and Content Update

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Some things in rigging have changed in P11 that are not backwards compatible with previous versions, but they are few and not many people will ever use them. The most publicized is Smooth Translations, which came to complement the existing Smoothing Scale zones. But as far as I know, regular P11 rigging should work fine in previous versions up to P9. The Morphing Tool has a new feature that allows editing morphs restricted by Material Zone, but that won't break compatibility with previous Poser versions.

I have been keeping my rigging for store products done in PP2014 just to be on the safe side, but there are some MAJOR drawbacks. First of all, rigging done in P11 automatically copies the bulge maps and smoothing scale zones from the base figure to your outfit. PP2014 will skip both, which will cause problems later. There is no simple or practical way to recover the missing smoothing scale zones once the rigging is done, so that is something to consider. You will also have to manually redo all bulge maps that were skipped by PP2014, making you work more than you should.

In addition, there is a serious bug with PP2014 when you delete an existing morph. It was also present in P11, but it has been fixed in last night's build (11.0.4). When you delete a morph in PP2014 to replace it with a fixed one, Poser might also delete it from ALL other clothing that is conformed to the base figure, and also from the base figure itself. The CR2 gets messed up, and a side effect is that some other (even unrelated) morphs may stop following the base figure after that. When you save the CR2, you make the damage permanent. This has been fixed in P11, but there is no saying if SMS will ever fix it in older versions - namely PP2014.

As an example, I have started the rigging of my new superhero suit in P11, and it automatically inherited all of Dawn's Smoothing Scale zones and bulge maps. This means my new outfit is automatically compatible with body scaling - something none of my previous products can handle, and there is no simple way to do it without destroying the existing rigging. Thanks to the inherited bulge maps, there was WAY less work to do on the rigging right off the bat. Since the main outfit part is a catsuit, I thought it would take me forever to adjust all the joints, but it was nothing like that. It's just that I was used to PP2014 skipping the bulge maps, forcing me to redo them manually afterwards. No such thing with P11.

This doesn't mean we can't do the rest of the rigging in PP2014, which is exactly what I did. But now that I know the delete morph bug has been fixed in P11, I might have to reconsider doing that part in P11, because PP2014 actually deletes MUCH more than it was supposed to when you delete a morph. I have experienced this in 1st hand when making my upcoming Office Lady outfit for Dawn, where I was forced to redo several morphs that were already done and tested that stopped working or vanished for no apparent reason. In addition, the shirt buttons got distorted beyond fixing with some FBMs, and the only way to fix them is by using the new P11 Morphing Tool, which allows restricting morph editing by Material Zone. That is not available in PP2014, so it's not even an option. I have only learned about this last night! LOL
 

Robynsveil

Admirable
Cloth room improvement:
"Restored ability to exclude body parts of Unimesh skinned figures from simulation."
:( That's it?

Oh well, maybe the next version.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Cloth room improvement:
"Restored ability to exclude body parts of Unimesh skinned figures from simulation."
:( That's it?
Oh well, maybe the next version.

There are actually MUCH more things done there, but they decided to use a short version. I have been beta-testing P11 since last December, and the list of changes in this build is extensive. Maybe not much on the Cloth Room, though. What do you think is missing there?
 

d32un3d

New-Bee
My SM-Download Mgr is still only showing the 11.0.3.32055 Update. What should I do to get the 11.0.4 Update? (assuming this is a PP11 Update) I ask because the 11.0.3.32055 Update has caused PP11 to completely stop working.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
My SM-Download Mgr is still only showing the 11.0.3.32055 Update. What should I do to get the 11.0.4 Update? (assuming this is a PP11 Update) I ask because the 11.0.3.32055 Update has caused PP11 to completely stop working.

The public version is still 11.0.3. The 11.0.4 is only for SMS beta-testers at the moment, but I know for a fact that they are getting close to a release date. I am one of the guys who have been delaying the release by reporting some rather critical issues that need fixing right away. So 11.0.4 will come out with a significant number of fixing and improvements. SMS have been very efficient on receiving and solving reports in a timely manner, which is important to me as a content creator. As a matter of fact, there are some parts of content creation that I would not be able to finish if not the changes already present on the current 11.0.4 beta. This is going to be a great update! ^__^
 

Mythocentric

Extraordinary
I'm not the most knowledgeble guy around when it comes to delving into the intricacies of programs like Poser but I thought I'd comment on my impressions so far of the latest SR3 update. I've used Poser from version 4 and upgraded as and when new versions are released. That includes Poser 11 and I've been quite happy with things until I downloaded and installed SR3. Throughout that time I've used 10 runtimes for different model catagories, V4, M4, Props, Structures, etc and never had problems switching between them. Now, not only have I to wait for the Library to load when I first open the program (up to 5 minutes!) but I also have further waits when I switch between runtimes. The standard scroll buttons on the Library window have disappeared and reverted to the awkward 'grab and tug' bar. In addition to which clicking on the arrows causes the cursor to jump to a different location in the window (cured by ignoring the arrow and double-clicking on the item name instead!) These problems have already been mentioned and dealt with here and I have checked the Refresh Index box in General Prefs-Library which has shortened the load-up time but not eliminated it! What I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that the shortcut's, i.e. Cntrl+M, Cntrl+=, Cntrl+D no longer work and the only way I can switch is by going to the Menu's. Minor problems you may think, I'm doing this for fun nowadays rather than profit but that doesn't excuse them. As a final note quite frequently when I load a figure, start a render, etc the blasted thing simply stops responding, sometimes for up to 10 minutes until it makes its mind up, or very occasionally crashes altogether. Overall not bad going for an update intended to improve your experience. OK! So I'm being grumpy but my view is that Poser like Daz Studio is a tool, and if that tool proves inadequate why use it? I don't generally get on with Daz Studio, much preferring Poser for its ease of use and previous experience but I must admit I'm sorely tempted to have a rethink. With Studio making such inroads into Posers former territory I have to question SmithMicro's releasing such a bug-ridden upgrade in the first place!
 
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Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
@Mythocentric I am happy to say basically ALL of those things have been reported and fixed in 11.0.4. Like I said, it's a BIG update with tons of issues resolved. :)
 

Mythocentric

Extraordinary
@Mythocentric I am happy to say basically ALL of those things have been reported and fixed in 11.0.4. Like I said, it's a BIG update with tons of issues resolved. :)

Thanks Ken1171! That's good to hear and look forward to the update in the, hopefully, not-to-distant future. I do like Poser but having my workflow constantly interrupted is a definite no-no. At my age (i.e. grumpy old sod!) I'm probably fixed in my ways so anything which makes life easier! :rolleyes:
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
@Mythocentric I hear ya! I am also currently stuck with a Poser bug that SMS claims will not be fixed in time for 11.0.4, and Larry Weinberg, creator of the original Poser version, has been personally working on it. The bug causes the Morphing Tool to be unable to weld some faces, making some clothing areas impossible to rig. Larry claims this will be tough to fix, and I am depending on it to finalize a product.

Conversely, the only alternative is DS, where we have absolutely no access to their developer team when something goes wrong, and we are not even eligible to ask for bug fixing since the program is free. I personally prefer to pay for the software, and be eligible for support when I need it. :)
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
The bug causes the Morphing Tool to be unable to weld some faces, making some clothing areas impossible to rig. Larry claims this will be tough to fix, and I am depending on it to finalize a product.

Okay, I have to ask now, how do you use the morphing tool to weld faces? I've have run into places where as I'm weight mapping, I suddenly find that Poser has decided that the polygons were not welded together and I get seems appearing. Of course it sounds like currently this only works sometimes, but still, I'd love to know how.


@MythocentricConversely, the only alternative is DS, where we have absolutely no access to their developer team when something goes wrong, and we are not even eligible to ask for bug fixing since the program is free. I personally prefer to pay for the software, and be eligible for support when I need it. :)

I agree that is a huge benefit. Let's face it, any 3d program out there is massively complex, and there is a lot that can go wrong. Doesn't mean we don't want perfect versions, but as someone who used to collect information on user issues for engineers, I know how much difference it can make having someone report bugs, and not.
 

Sunfire

One Busy Little Bee
QAV-BEE
Contributing Artist
@Ken1171 I do hope they're also fixing the problem that some of us have with the library thumbnails. I reset the size of the thumbs in my library. Close my Poser, repopen and have the default thumb sizes again. I have reported it, a couple of times.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I'm with you Tana. I love the thumbnail size in P9, but absolutely hate the tiny thumbs in PP11.
 

Sunfire

One Busy Little Bee
QAV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I change it, and they don't stay. It is most frustrating. And I never got the hang of library manager.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Okay, I have to ask now, how do you use the morphing tool to weld faces? I've have run into places where as I'm weight mapping, I suddenly find that Poser has decided that the polygons were not welded together and I get seems appearing. Of course it sounds like currently this only works sometimes, but still, I'd love to know how.

The bug is exactly that the Morphing Tool was supposed to automatically weld faces between body groups BEFORE allowing us to paint weights on them, but it's failing to do so in some cases. In my case, there are unwelded faces between the pelvis and thighs on my superhero outfit. But beware - this can also happen if the model has inverted faces when it was modeled, where faces with inverted normals CANNOT be welded by any 3D program because they cannot form a single surface. In my case, I have examined the model and confirmed that is not the case. It becomes move evident it's the bug causing faces not to weld when:

1. You hover the mouse over the group and observe the while line that highlights it, and faces at the affected area are not part of the actual group. You can see which faces are part of the group by toggling it's visibility. In my case, the highlighted faces are DIFFERENT from the ones in the group, which proves the Morphing Tool has failed to weld the required faces.

2. You can see artifacts along the line between the affected body groups, and they show in both OpenGL previews and Firefly renders. If you have already checked for inverted faces on the OBJ itself in an external program and didn't find any, this caused by the Morphing Tool bug.

This bug exists in Poser 10 and 11, and SMS will only fix it in 11.0.5, meaning users of older versions are out of luck. SMS has confirmed that older versions are NOT being fixed for anything. This is why I do the job in P11 nowadays, and not in PP2014 anymore.

@Ken1171 I do hope they're also fixing the problem that some of us have with the library thumbnails. I reset the size of the thumbs in my library. Close my Poser, repopen and have the default thumb sizes again. I have reported it, a couple of times.

If you have reported the issue, and SMS has confirmed it, it will be fixed in order of how critical it is for general usage. Thumbnail sizes are not show-stopping, so I believe it will take a lower priority. The idea is to have 11.0.4 free of critical errors like the example above, though it seems like this last bug will not be included because release date is close and, according to SMS, fixing the unwelded faces will be quite complex.

Nonetheless, SMS has fixed a large number of bugs on the new HTML5 library - many of which I have reported myself. Just last night I have reported yet another library bug where trying to drag an item causes the mouse to select everything in the way as if in a web page, to include parts of the tree view. Once this happens, the only way to remove the blue selection is to either global-reset the library, or restart Poser. Today SMS has decided that this is a critical issue was scheduled to be fixed still in 11.0.4. Larry is also considering the possibility of fixing this critical unwelded faces issue still in 11.0.4, but that is yet to be seen. It's definitely show-stopping enough to be critical. That's the ordering criterion.
 

Sunfire

One Busy Little Bee
QAV-BEE
Contributing Artist
No small thumbs aren't a show stopper when you have a large monitor. But if you have vision problems, small thumbs and constantly having to go in and reset the sizes becomes quite the show stopper. Even with a large monitor.

I was so thrilled when I learned the UI of P11 was going to be sizeable, so a user could make the interface larger if they needed, because the gal who first got me into Poser is legally blind and keeps her monitor resolution as close to 800x600 as she can and wears a jeweler's magnifying hood on top of that to read her screen. Unfortunately she died before she could even buy P11, let alone try the sizeable UI out. *sigh*
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
I know what you mean, and I don't actually know what priority SMS is giving to this subject. I just wanted to illustrate how they choose what to pick next. Over here I am stuck with a 20" monitor since my older Samsung 24" burned out due to a factory defect on the power supply. This seems to be happening all over the world, not only with computer screens, but also with flat screen TVs - the power supply burns out, and replacing it is more expensive than the device itself. The only surviving monitor is this 10 years old ViewSonic, once again proving that the newer the device, the cheaper the parts. Conversely, these old relics were build to last.
 

Sunfire

One Busy Little Bee
QAV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I just recently picked up a 27" increasing from a 20". So I know what it's like to work on a 20" and having to fight with things and find those seams and all.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
I've noticed larger monitors are much more affordable nowadays. But unfortunately, people over here are not allowed to buy computer-related parts thanks to the communist regime. Import taxing goes as high as 260%, which is the same as forbidden. Until last year, it was restricting only computer parts, but now it has been generously expanded to anything whatsoever, unless it costs less than $10. So my 20" ViewSonic will indeed have to last forever, and I am lucky to have it. This year the government is trying to pass a new law that will restrict access to the internet, so I am also lucky to still be here. I better enjoy while I still can! ^^
 
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