Poser 11 SR3 and Content Update

[Mythocentric]

Yeah. I agree with a lot of what you say but let me try to make my point clear. Yes! Poser and Daz Studio are very different and I have both programs loaded and I'm aware that with Poser you have a lot of backwards compatability and the ability to complain when things go bottoms-up. That's what you pay your money for! I use Poser far more than Daz for the simple reason that it is far more intuitive to use. I often find Studio to be frustrating and only employ it as a last resort, nor do I like having to buy a whole new set of models with each Genesis evolution because Daz keep changing the game plan, but the simple truth is Daz are winning the content game and you only have to visit sites like Renderosity and the sellout of RuntimeDNA to see how Genesis has swamped Poser content onto the sidelines to see the truth of that!
However, as I said Poser is my choice, along with a lot of other people, because of its simplicity (in use) and when Poser 11 was released I bought it. Then I went out and spent nearly $2000 on a computer capable of handling its features before I installed it, and up to the the release of SR3 and SR4 it ran and performed near-perfectly. It was as near perfect a tool as I have needed to do what I wanted to do - create art!
Note that keyword, TOOL. Because at the end of the day that's all Poser (or any other program) is. A tool! I've spent my whole life as a professional artist in the traditional field until ill-health and age forced me to retire and seek other ways of working and I always bought the best tools for the job. Spending $300 on a brush because I got $300 performance from a tool designed for the job was, and still is, not a problem, because that was the only way to get the results I wanted to the best of my ability. Same goes for Poser. If you would go back over this thread and take a look at the problems which have become apparent since SR3. The tendency to skip back to the top of the list when you click on an arrow to open an item in the library rather than open that item. The length of time it takes for the library to open both on start-up and when switching between runtimes. The fact that the keyboard strokes to carry out simple operations like switching between windows no longer work, or at best, only intermittantly. I could also add the increased number of times the program simply stops responding when I start a render, load a figure/prop/etc or, as has happened three times in the last few days, simply crashes! All these have come about since SR3 and we were told that SR4 would put them right. The honest truth is they haven't. We've heard a lot about the great number of improvements and new features that these upgrades have introduced, for example Animatable Origins, but the end user has been left with impaired functionality as a result. And that is what all the complaints in this thread have been about - basic functions which Poser (or any other program) should handle with ease. Not some all-singing, all-dancing new feature which, to be frank, most Poser-users will never use. Just the basic functions which have become a routine part of Poser usage. SR3 impaired that functionality and SR4 has done nothing to correct them. So where do we go from here? Wait for SR5, SR6, SR7 in the hopes that one of them will finally put things back to how it was on release or simply give up and give the competition (and what a sorry move that would be) a chance?

 

[Gadget Girl]

I completely get your frustration. I've had Poser break completely on me more than once and it can be frustrating beyond belief. That said, reading through some of what you have said about your library issues, is there any chance that is has to do with the hard drive you're runtime is on? I've had no issues with my library loading in SR4. Now, I am on a mac, and the main computer I use I do have the runtime on my local drive, which is also a flash drive so my situation isn't the same as yours. Part of that is because I don't trust hard drives (not that I don't have them, I have about four backups) mostly because of the years I sent repairing computers, and most of the time the hard drive is what is at fault.

 

[Mythocentric]

Hi Gadget Girl! I'm running Poser on Windows 8.1 via an Intel Core i5-5200U CPU at 2.2GHz, 8 Gb RAM, 64 bit, 2Tgb hard drive which, as I mentioned, was bought purposely to run Poser 11. I have one Runtime on that hard drive and two separate back up copies on two of a bank of six 500Gb external hard drives which I use for that purpose and to store my images and photographs. I've used this set up since Poser 6 without any problems. Until SR3 I had no problems loading the libraries from any of them. While the load time is a frustration I could do without it's not unusual for Poser with all it's little quirks. In past times and earlier versions I've known occasions where it's taken just as long, longer or occasionally even had to connect to the 'net before they appeared. Of more concern is the fact that SR3 has disrupted some very basic funtions of the program which while minor in themselves, collectively add up to some serious lapses in a program which up until then had proved to be near-perfect. We were told that SR4 would fix that. It hasn't! The only solution offered so far is to carry out a complete re-install of the program which involves downloading the whole kit and kaboodle again which, for me, is expensive in time and bandwidth in the hope that it may put things right, or live in hope of some future update correcting some what are, after all, pretty elementary errors. That's not the sort of performance SmithMicro can afford with Daz making such serious inroads into the current market. To be honest, until I discovered Hivewire which has been a godsend, I was getting pretty downhearted about the whole thing given that the sites I previously purchased from, RuntimeDNA being swallowed up by the Daz corporate maw and Renderosity practically becoming a Daz outlet with it's wall-to-wall Genesis offerings. Prime example: My latest newsletter from them with items (supposedly) tailored to my requirements consisted of nothing but Genesis 3 stuff with one lone Poser product, and that was a tutorial to teach Poser from Beginner to Advanced!!! All in all not a happy time especially when my preferred program presents us with updates which promise much then turn out to be a pair of clunkers!

 

[Miss B]

OK, I was going to ask if you were working on a Windows 10 computer, but you're not. That's usually the first thing I point a finger at when something isn't working as it should.

That said, I'm running PP11 on Windows 7 Pro on an Intel Core i7 CPU @ 2.00GHz with 8gb of Ram, and a 700mb hard drive, with all my Runtimes are here on the hard drive. I have yet to have any crashes, and I just finished a SuperFly render this morning that took a little over 3 hours, and it didn't squawk at all while I went about reading emails and checking my forums while it rendered.

 

[Gadget Girl]

Hi Gadget Girl! I'm running Poser on Windows 8.1 via an Intel Core i5-5200U CPU at 2.2GHz, 8 Gb RAM, 64 bit, 2Tgb hard drive which, as I mentioned, was bought purposely to run Poser 11.

Definitely a nice machine. I was thinking your runtimes were on an external drive, so that cuts down on some possible issues. That being said, however new your machine is, my experience has been always to look at the hard drive first, especially with problems like this. I'm not saying your hard drive is failing, although all hard drive fails, and I've seen it happen right out of the box. I've also seen them last more then ten years. It could be something file system related making it hard for Poser to index. I'm not up on file systems in Windows 8 so sadly I can't offer much advice on that front, but it is something to consider.

The only solution offered so far is to carry out a complete re-install of the program which involves downloading the whole kit and kaboodle again which, for me, is expensive in time and bandwidth in the hope that it may put things right, or live in hope of some future update correcting some what are, after all, pretty elementary errors.

Is that the solution SM gave you? I only ask, because in my dealings with their tech support, they have not recommended reinstalls. In fact I've created some issues for myself trying to do that. I've also learned the hard way, to keep local copies of installers of anything that I might want to reinstall, because believe me, I've been there with the time and bandwidth issues. That being said, you might be able to download the original version of Poser 11 if that worked better for you. I could be wrong. I feel like I've done this before by clearing out my preferences from the SM download manager and re-entering my serial number. I could be wrong, and I would definitely recommend double checking because like I said, I've made Poser worse by uninstalling it and reinstalling it.

My latest newsletter from them with items (supposedly) tailored to my requirements consisted of nothing but Genesis 3 stuff with one lone Poser product, and that was a tutorial to teach Poser from Beginner to Advanced!!!

I've never thought of the news letters I get from Rednerosity as being tailored to me, except the ones about items on my wish list. That being said I think that every other week they change between doing a DS centered newsletter and a Poser centered one.

Regardless, I'm just hoping something will help so you can get back to the fun and creative part, of things.

 

[Ken1171]

The bulk of the issues I had with P11 were related to the new library. It was initially lacking the features we already had with previous versions, and that was tough on me, because we learn to rely on such things. By now a lot that been fixed, but keyboard navigation and drag and drop are still not 100% yet. The important thing is that I have reported all the issues, so SMS can do something about them. This is very important, for they need to know the issues exist if we want them to be solved. It's no use to just be mad about it. And this is just to get back library functionality we already had in Poser 10, so I know it can be frustrating.

The library performance issues I was initially having are gone by now. Poser 11 starts fast, and the library takes just a few seconds to initialize. I have 1 main runtime, plus a dozen smaller ones. They are all external ones, but all in the same drive. If Poser gets sluggish on a laptop, I would check the hard drive first. Laptops are typically slowed down by default to save battery life, meaning the hard drive is not always spinning, and is slowed down to 5400 RPM instead of the 7200RPM from regular desktops. The processor is typically also slowed down to lower clock speeds to save battery and avoid overheating laptop's squeezed down cases, where air flow is very limited. Long battery life requires basically slowing everything down, and that has been the rule of thumb for designing laptops. Things like hard drive fragmentation can also be aggravated in such cases, so defragmenting the drive might help - unless it's an SSD, in which case defragmenting is NOT recommended at all, as it will reduce it's lifespan. Still on the laptop, even dedicated video adapters are slowed down in the "M" (mobile) version to save battery life. Features are also removed for the same reason. Laptops will always perform slower, except for the high-end "desktop replacement" ones, which tend to cost 5 to 8 grands (not cheap!). Examples of that are the Toshiba Cosmio series, which are so bulky and heavy that one wouldn't think of carrying them around anyway.

To make things easier and faster to maintain, it might be a good idea to create a partition to store your Poser runtime, for then you won't be affected by disc fragmentation from Windows operations. Over here I actually maintain my Poser runtime on its own drive, and then backup copies in external drives for extra security. More recently I have replaced the Poser drive with an SSD, and expected a boost in performance - but that didn't happen at all. When Poser is loading files, it's not the drive access that take time, but instead it's some internal processing. The only benefit was that Poser starts faster, but after that I see no additional performance gains besides faster content searches.

I have DS 4.8 in the same drive, and loading a figure STILL takes a looong time, even in a fast SSD. There again, the loading time is because of some internal processing, and not disc access as I first thought. It appears that Poser actually loads figures a little faster than DS in that aspect. By using a SSD, the only thing that can slow down figure loading is the program itself, and DS actually performed a little worse than Poser on that part. This was by loading Dusk or Dawn in the native DUF format, so no conversions were involved.

Having that said, there are many things that can affect performance, and different people with different hardware will face different Poser scenarios. But I can say that from my experience, the library is no longer lagging or slow anymore. Granted, my workstation is very fast and powerful, because I have designed it for this task, but I saw the new P11 library being slow in the past, and that's no longer happening in SR-4. There are many other issues, but being slow doesn't seem to be one of them. I am not saying it's not slow to you, but instead that the causes might be somewhere else, like the hard drive. Fragmentation, maybe?

 

[Mythocentric]

Hi Miss B,

I don’t use Windows 10 nor intend to, not because of program related issues but security. I am a great believer in privacy and internet freedom and will remain so. I could in fact upgrade to Windows 10 free of charge which came as part of the deal with my laptop, indeed so insistant are they that the upgrade is now being inserted in with the normal updates, (and just as quickly removed by me), besides the constant pop-ups! The problem is that Windows 10 has so much built-in spyware that it is virtually impossible for you to do anything with your computer that isn’t ‘recorded’ and made available to Microsoft and via them to the US and other governments to whom they are officially required to submit such information together with most internet service providers. This information covers everything from email to personal information such as medical and banking details. That’s why I don’t use it and why my computer is encrypted to prevent such intrusion. These ‘legal’ requirements also cover telephone calls from mobiles, etc. As they say, it’s a nasty world out there and not all the bad people are terrorists!



Hi Gadget Girl,

In the past I have had my Runtimes on an external drive and experienced no problems with load times. In fact it wasn’t until I installed Poser 11 that I moved my Runtime to the hard drive with two backup’s kept externally. Again, no problems until I installed SR3 either with the internal or external Runtimes!

The original idea for re-installing the program came from me in post #110 “Could someone

please make it clear whether the 11.04 update alone is sufficient or should I re-install the whole program which is now showing as version 11.04.” and Ken1171’s reply in Post #112 “I have been just updating. It doesn't hurt to try a clean install, though. As far as I know, it won't delete your runtime.”

Renderosity does occasionally send out newsletters containing items specifically tailored to your purchases together with other offers, content, etc. More frequently they are aimed at new content and related items in general. I’ve just checked my last few emails just for curiosity and they show that one in the last seven newsletters was aimed at Poser-specific content. What surprised me is that in all the years I’ve dealt with Renderosity I’ve only ever bought three Genesis related items; Victoria 5 (or 6?), Faunus and a Modern Kilt (which I bought by accident thinking it was a Poser item!



Ken1171,

I’m sorry but you seem to be making much of how fast the libraries are now for you and minimising the other problems myself and other contributors have raised in this thread. As far as I’m concerned I am no different from any other Poser user and expect that the program I bought performs as specified. That performance should not change regardless of how many updates it receives nor should it require any user to make changes to their computer, i.e. by creating partitions specifically to hold the Runtimes or any other means! I’m not a programmer or any kind of computer expert and I’ve no intension of doing something which would probably be irreversible especially on a five-week-old machine! The problem with the library (and caused by the SR3 update) as I’ve already mentioned previously is a minor irritant which can be tolerated. That said the fact still remains that the SR3 update has caused problems with the basic interface between Poser and its end user and that one fact outweighs any number of other bonuses because it makes the program awkward to use and eventually the end user less likely to upgrade to the next version. Small in themselves but collectively they comprise a big problem! We have been told via this thread that those problems would be corrected with SR4. They weren’t and while they remain they are a major issue in a marketplace which is increasingly swinging towards Daz!

I’ve checked my hard drive’s and they are all showing maximum optimisation with zero fragmentation which is pretty much what I’d expect from a new machine. While I’m running Poser on a laptop I rarely run on batteries preferring to use mains power for which reason the power settings are optimised for high performance with power saving mode switching in when I’m travelling, during which time I'm taking photographs not using Poser. I suspect that you yourself have offered one possible reason for the problems others are experiencing “Granted, my workstation is very fast and powerful, because I have designed it for this task, but I saw the new P11 library being slow in the past, and that's no longer happening in SR-4.”

High spec machines are everyone’s dream but one which is rarely realised. I’m afraid the vast majority of us are more likely to be using computers of lower specs because they are the ones available to us. They can also hide a multitude of sins which only become apparent when the end user tries to run a program created or modified on that machine loads it into one of lesser performance.



As for myself I’ll continue using Poser and put up with its little quirks (even the ones needlessly inflicted by SmithMicro) and as Gadget Girl said, “Regardless, I'm just hoping something will help so you can get back to the fun and creative part, of things.” That said, I believe its time I bowed out of this conversation before I disgrace myself!

 

[RobZhena]

Just in case nobody else asked, do you have indexing set at startup in preferences? I found that indexing at startup makes a still slow library load much worse. By "slow" I'd guess with that turned off, the libraries appear 60-90 seconds after everything else opens, which feels slow. Better to suffer the indignity of indexing on first search.

 

[Mythocentric]

Hi RobZhena,
It was mentioned a few posts back but yes I do have indexing at startup set as a preference. I've just been having a play with the libraries and found that if I set the library to 'All' after the initial delay I can open any Runtime (I have nine!) without problems. However I noticed that with several Runtimes open at the same time and in use there is a drop in speed. Not large but enough to be noticable and not particularly a problem. Using my preferred method of switching between individual Runtimes gives me a delay both at startup and switching between runtimes. None of which occurred before SR3 (and4). Thats not much of a problem as much as the disruption to the program/user interface which has also arisen. Hopefully we can only cross our fingers that SmithMicro correct that sooner than later!

 

[Ken1171]

@Mythocentric You have some good points there. I also have a list of reported issues SMS hasn't addressed yet, but I know they are in their queue list - it's just a matter of what priority they get compared to other issues. However, I DO recommend installing all the updates because SMS has been working very hard to resolve the most they can with the rather small team they have there. Part of what makes things take longer to fix is their principle of keeping backwards compatibility, meaning any changes they do should also work with everything else, and that is not only tough, but also has side-effect consequences.

On one hand, backwards compatibility is highly desirable to protect the money we have invested on content. It's also a way to show respect for customers. On the other hand, it can also play against performance and efficiency, in a similar way Windows has suffered from the very beginning. I was initially mad with SMS for replacing the library for one that lacks the same functionality we already had before, but I can see they are making an effort to fix that over time. Even Larry Weinberg, the creator of the original Poser, has personally fixed some of the more critical issues I have presented and made sure they were included in 11.0.4, even if it was already on the deadline. That shows me respect, dedication, and commitment, and I appreciate that.

HiveWire3D also has a rather small team, and it's impressive how many things they have accomplished in just a few years. I admit sometimes I got impatient with how long things can take, but we have to look at the big picture. I started asking Chris for an "Anime Dawn" back in 2013, and we have only seen her now in 2016. Poor Chris knows well how many times I have hammered him for that, but now Sora is finally coming to life!

If you have issues with Poser, the best is to report them directly to SMS. Talk to John or Matt, and they will process your reports. The number of people who report a certain issue also seems to affect the priority they get, so make sure to let SMS know when you find issues, or else nothing will change. They can't fix if they don't know about it.

 

[Mythocentric]

I have reported these issues!

 

[Ken1171]

Awesome! Now it's just a matter of time, then. ^^