Discussion in 'The Meadow' started by Chris, Jul 31, 2017.
Very happy kitty indeed.
I've seen one get posted over there, then a second and when I go to look for the first one, it's already gone. Not much time later so is the second one. And I've seen posts mysteriously vanish from a thread and it get locked so no one can re-post anything that was interpreted as disrespectful. Again, over there.
Someone here made a comment not too long ago in a thread about not being allowed to make constructive criticism posts and pointing out that such opinions are actually helpful when done politely. The thread I mentioned was a person saying that they didn't like such and such things about a recently released character. The tone was a polite opinion, not an attack on the creator of the character.
It can be kind of amusing too; some folks over here complaining about honoring the Confederate officers use terms like "traitors" to describe them but have no problem honoring others that could also be described that way for doing exactly the same thing less than a hundred years earlier. Oh well.
/raises hand. That would be me.
Yes indeed. I do consider confederate officers to be traitors. However, I also stated had we lost the Revolutionary War, George Washington and all our other founding fathers would be known now as traitors, rather than heros. I also speculated the leaders of the rebellion would most likely have been hanged had we lost.
But, that is the way things work. A hero to one side is a traitor to the other. Whether they go down in history as one or the other depends on which side writes the history books.
As Harry Truman said, "The only thing new in the world is the history you do not know." Once, American children were taught a collection of myths in place of their national history, but nowadays they are taught neither myths nor facts, if anything at all regarding history, theirs or anyone else's. Teachers who were history majors once taught high school history, but a shift began in the 70's of having sports coaches and physical education majors teach history. Certainly one of the first steps in robbing a people of their future is to steal their past.
I am one on a watchlist apparently who will get any offsite links and other comments removed even if someone else later posts those links.
Many regular Carrara users are on this list it seems.
A user even solved the issue of Genesis 3 and 8 crashing Carrara and has had references to how removed.
I must admit I am at a total loss to understand much of what goes on there and hope I can continue in the hobby I have invested a substantial amount of money into already.
The danger for me lies with Carrara and Windows updates, Mac users are already having compatibility issues, with no development it's a matter of time until my software of choice breaks.
That's is a fair point and very valid but it is amazing how many people just do not accept who won and who lost or just deny certain events took place at all.
Being born in the UK I am well aware of some of terrible things we as a Nation inflicted on the world in the name of the commonwealth and very little of the wealth was common it worked in the favor of the rich in the UK. There are now demands to have buildings renamed and other such things because they were linked to the slave trade. Many do this in the belief it offends others, well the idea that these changes should take place offends me, not because I am proud of our history but because I do not feel we should not forget. If cities made there wealthy through the slave trade why should such facts be air brushed away. If our history shames us, great, perhaps that will stop us doing anything like it again. To forget history is just giving you the chance to act in a similar manner and we could be doomed to making the same mistakes again.
It's a tough call, and hard to know what is the right thing to do. I've been to Germany and they don't have streets named after Adolf Hiter anymore, or statues of him in public. The history hasn't been erased because of it either, the Germans just don't want Adolf Hitler to be regarded as a hero by having streets named after him and statues in public view.
No. We shouldn't forget. Ever.
I don't support destroying the confederate statues and monuments. Though, I do support renaming buildings, parks, schools, etc. It's not like we don't rename things all the time.
For some time now in the United States, Columbus named places have been slowly being renamed. Although a federal holiday since 1937, Columbus Day is no longer recognized as a federal holiday in many states and cities. A number of cities celebrate Indigenous Peoples Day rather than Columbus Day.
When I was young, Christopher Columbus was considered a hero. The most glorious explorer in American history! He sailed the ocean blue ... in three tiny ships. And ... discovered America! Well ... sorta. He actually landed in the Bahamas. On an island named Guanahani. Which was populated by an indigenous people. Their ancestors had migrated to the Bahamas almost 1,000 years before Columbus arrived. So, instead of finding the vast riches of gold and other metals he expected and had promised, Columbus found people. Failing to deliver on his promise of vast riches, he sent those people back to Spain to be sold as slaves. Within 30 years, the entire population he "discovered" had been enslaved and the island depopulated.
Sometimes digging through all the myths and propaganda takes decades (or much, much longer). As myths and stories are peeled back, it can turn out a historical figure wasn't actually all that honorable ... as in the case of Columbus.
Do we continue to honor a man who committed horrible atrocities and genocide of an entire people? Or do we remove him from those places of honor and consign him to museums and history books ... where the truth is told. Not some glorified myth that covers up his greed and immorality.
For me, it's not that the confederate statues and monuments are offensive, it's the values and beliefs those statues and monuments represent that is offensive. To the white supremacist, slavery is right and good and the natural order. Should we continue to honor those values? And the men and women who held those values?
Or, like Columbus, do they belong not in places of honor, but elsewhere. Where they are not held up as heroic and honorable people to emulate, but as vastly flawed, and perhaps even immoral, people who we should strive to be far, far better than.
I know how you feel Wendy, as I started in 3D with Bryce, and I keep my fingers crossed every time I open it, that it will open and work.
Now-a-days I don't use it as often as I did, but I still enjoy rendering with Bryce, as I'm really a landscape artist at heart. I only became a portrait artist when I started beta testing for various vendors over the years.
The more you actually research the history, reading the documents themselves rather than relying on historians' spin jobs, you find that the "facts" that everyone has taken for granted are not only untrue, but that they are the opposite of what actually happened. When you see enough of this, then you recognize that conspiracy is not a theory: People in power have always done whatever they pleased and changed the story to whatever they wanted it to be.
Abraham Lincoln is credited with freeing the slaves, but that is inaccurate. The slaves were freed by the 13th amendment to the Constitution. (However, through the 14th amendment, the citizenship of the rest of the populace was degraded and stipulations were added—very tricky). If you actually read the Emancipation Proclamation, you will find that Lincoln expressly and specifically freed only the slaves that were in territories (seceded states) that did not recognize his jurisdiction, and he expressly and specifically did not free any slaves that resided in the Northern states of which he was still considered the Executive power! But what were Americans taught? The Civil War was fought to free the slaves, and Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves through the Emancipation Proclamation.
Mere semantics, you say? It is in the fine print that people are swindled out of their life's work, life savings and lives. Actually, based upon the principles expounded in the Declaration of Independence, Abraham Lincoln's military action against the seceding states was tyranny, and I say this purely on principle and as a descendant of American slaves (lest anyone think I'm a white supremacist).
Great men rarely stand up to the scrutiny of a later age. But that's no reason to whitewash them.
That's an interesting post xyer0. It's good to get views from people with connections to the subject, than just reading it in books.
It is a tough call and I can well understand the situation in Germany but while they refrain from the use of Hitlers name the concentration camps and some of his hideaways still exist and are visited by many. This makes re-writing history very difficult, as is should be, but this still does not stop some claiming the holocaust never happened. I guess I just question some of the motives of the people that pressing for change. This is not helped by the fact that many of the groups profess to stand for free speech but decry anyone speaking out unless they agree with their views and aims. Other pressure groups hold up other countries as shining examples of good government when they have clearly bought into the hype and know nothing of the reality. Unfortunately the Internet only makes matters worse as they can often find other sources to back up their beliefs even if they are nowhere near the truth either.
This seems a long way from where we started but it is the removal of views contrary official line that was described here and while this is mildly annoying when discussing 3D art the same principles used elsewhere can have a much bigger impact. I guess I am a believer of the principle "Speak your truth quietly and clearly and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant, for they too have their story". Not my words but it is my belief.
I don't question that Lincoln is credited with freeing the slaves. Over the years, I've read and heard that stated. Especially, in Philadelphia. As you say, that is not accurate.
I'm sure it varied state by state, public vs private, and even perhaps, teacher by teacher. But in public school in Oregon, we were not taught the Civil War was fought to free the slaves, nor were we taught the Emancipation Proclamation applied to all slaves. In our classes, we were taught the Civil War was fought to preserve the Union. We were also taught the Emancipation Proclamation freed only the slaves in those states that rebelled and were fighting the Union armies. Of course, that doesn't mean that everyone in my classes learned that!
It's kind of sad we feel it necessary to make our "heros" larger than life and to cover up all their flaws and shortcomings.
I see Renderosity posted on FaceBook that the HW Big Cat is coming...
WOW, I just checked, and sure enough it was posted on their Facebook page 3 hours ago, and there have been 9 likes, 2 of them from top vendors in their store . . . namely Fabiana, and Rhiannon. WOW! Very Nice!
Is the washer done with my last load? Or are you not watching my washing machine?
Separate names with a comma.