• Welcome to the new Community Forums at HiveWire 3D! Please note that for security purposes our store and forum are on two separate servers so you will require a separate login for each. The store will ask you for your Real Name (WILL NOT BE displayed to the public) and the forum will ask you for a User Name (WILL BE displayed to the public). You may use the same email address and password for both.
  • We are having some issues with our customized styles. The forum will be open with the default style until we can correct the issues. Thank you for your patience.
  • Welcome, Guest! The results are in for the "Spin to Win" Render Challenge! Come check out the final gallery!

Dawn 2.0 Underway

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
Third party vendors are a different story they sometimes do not have the time or the skills to produce products that will work with so many different render engines and if they do, they get very little recompense, if any, for the extra work.
Maybe Chris or Lisa will remember how surprised I was when I first found out that, after spending more than twice the time to create DS versions of my products, I would have to basically give them away for free. And yet, most people will take that for granted, and some would even complain that it was "expensive" to them. Add to insult that it has become increasingly more challenging to create contents, while the prices keep going down. And then when I claim that the market is becoming vendor-unfriendly, there is no lack of people to disagree. <sigh> And yet, I keep doing it because I love it. Those who have left didn't love it enough.
 

eclark1894

Distinguished
If I remember this right, Dawn was 100% FREE when she was first released. She only got a price tag 2 years later, when Dawn SE was released. That gave people plenty of time to play with her for free in Poser and DS. I can't really tell, but my bet is that Dawn 2.0 will be like that as well.
Hmm... iirc, it did take me two years or more to move over to Dawn, but price was not the factor in my decision. I did have V4, but hardly used her. My concentration at the time was in making things work with Roxie and learning more in Blender. Come to think of it, I was on my old computer a day or two ago, and guess what I found? My Prince and Cinderella dress for Dawn and Dusk. Never could figure out how to rig that dress, although, now I'd probably make it all Dynamic and render in in Superfly. Man I bet that would be beautiful!.

 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
That style dress looks like it would work beautifully in the Cloth Room.
 

RobZhena

Adventurous
I've been following this thread with interest but until now I've refrained from commenting; since I don't work with Dawn or Dusk I don't really feel entitled to chime in.
I do have considerable experience with V4, though, so I would like to add my thoughts to this statement.

We mustn't forget that at the time V4 was released she was the best figure available. Her posing was superior to all previous versions and I'm quite sure that it has been one of the reasons for her success. But compared to newer figures her bending is really not very good, as you've pointed out yourself. People still use her because they don't want to switch to Genesis for various reasons and don't want to use any of the other Poser-compatible figure either, also for various reasons. So yes, in V4's case her reasonably pleasing shape combined with a ton of available content (and massive content collections on users' harddrives) outweighs her posing problems.

In my personal opinon Dawn is the only viable alternative to V4. The other female figures all have issues, either in the overall look, in their technical performance or in content support. Dawn 2.0 looks even better than Dawn 1, so this looks really promising, especially for Poser users :)
However, I also think that the conclusion "nice shape is more important than good posing" is the road to failure. If you end up with a figure that has a nice shape but poses just as badly as V4 you will have gained nothing. Users will simply stick to V4. To make them give up (more or less) on the content they've already collected for V4 the new figure must present huge advantages over V4, otherwise they won't make the switch. So yes, good posing is very important for a figure, especially nowadays where it won't be the only available one but has some competition.

But I'm sure the HW team knows all these things very well ;)

That said, I really don't know why the arms are such a problem in 3D figures. I just checked in a mirror: my shoulders are about as wide as my hips, and when I lower my arms I can feel the inside of my upper arms touch my ribcage but it doesn't feel squished - and it certainly doesn't intersect :roflmao:
I don't know a lot about anatomy but I wonder why this natural movement can't be replicated in 3D figures. They all have issues with their arms lowered, and if you add a bit of heavy morph the issues get worse. And these are serious issues as they interfere a lot with cloth simulations (no simulation engine likes self-intersecting meshes with fabric in between).
I'm very curious to see how Dawn 2.0 will be rigged in the end :flower00:
It would be great to see you making Poser items again. Maybe Dawn 2.0 and La Femme can win you back!
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I'll second that Rob, as I have a good many of Esha's products from "back in the day". ;)
 

Art_of_Mind

Engaged
Contributing Artist
I'm in and out but I'm sure I seen a mention of HD morphs here, I have jumped in and out of several threads reading over the past few days and could have seen it in another? I don't know how they are doing it over at DAZ, I think it's a secret/private tool they have. A trick you can do though with DS and Hexagon, you can send a model at base resolution over to Hexagon with the bridge, up the subdivision inside Hexagon, make your morph, importantly, reduce the subdivision back down to it's import level then send it back to DS. I dont have a fancy modeler but I would assume you can do the same thing in any modeler. You just can't call it an HD morph, cause you didnt truly use their private HD tool.
If you all try what I'm telling you, the morph won't be as sharp as it was when you made it, but it still helps you get an extra bit of detail.
 
Last edited:

Art_of_Mind

Engaged
Contributing Artist
Earlier I suggested the base version be a light version, cheap or free; where you would get the base shape and maybe a few alternate shapes; something like the base shape is fitness, with alternates of thin, thick, backward compatible original Dawn. Possibly even leave the texture off too. Going light on the base morphs will also speed up clothing creation, less morphs to add to the clothing. Any of you agree or disagree with this?
 

Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
Firstly, congratulations Chris! I love the direction you have taken with Dawn 2 and the work you have done so far.

Two questions and one request.

Which type of weight mapping will Dawn 2 have? Will it continue to be triax or will it be the same mapping as Genesis 3...iirc Quaternion something or other...sorry I haven't been doing this for a while and just can't remember the name of the other mapping. If this has already been mentioned my apologies but I did look and couldn't see it anywhere.

Second question, in DS will you have the original uv as an alternate UV as well as the newer version?

The request is that from day one Dawn 2 will come with clones for Dawn SE, Dusk and Luna. This will enable people to make use of the Hivewire content that they already own.


Thanks

Pen
 

Chris

HW3D President
Staff member
Co-Founder
I will offer to supply a free merchant resource bodysuit for Dawn 2.0 if you all want.
Here is one I recently made for Dawn, I should be able to use the same mesh and morph it to fit Dawn 2.0 when she's ready.

Great idea.
 

Chris

HW3D President
Staff member
Co-Founder
Firstly, congratulations Chris! I love the direction you have taken with Dawn 2 and the work you have done so far.

Two questions and one request.

Which type of weight mapping will Dawn 2 have? Will it continue to be triax or will it be the same mapping as Genesis 3...iirc Quaternion something or other...sorry I haven't been doing this for a while and just can't remember the name of the other mapping. If this has already been mentioned my apologies but I did look and couldn't see it anywhere.

Second question, in DS will you have the original uv as an alternate UV as well as the newer version?

The request is that from day one Dawn 2 will come with clones for Dawn SE, Dusk and Luna. This will enable people to make use of the Hivewire content that they already own.


Thanks

Pen

Paul is the rigging and weight map king, but I believe he's planning on triax. But don't quote me on that. I do know he's been looking into competitive models and rigs, and Paul will come up with the best option for both Poser and DS.

On the Modo scene I'm working on now, I do have the original UV set, and plan to create a new one as well for Dawn 2.0

We will have a Dawn SE morph with the base Dawn 2.0 on release. I would expect to have a Dusk SE shape and Luna after release.
 

Chris

HW3D President
Staff member
Co-Founder
Okay, so this is what I've done for Dawn 2.0 arm and hand work.

Shorter upper and lower arm.
Reshaped and made thinner upper and lower arm.
Narrowed up the shoulder.
Topology reworked to quads.
Scaled down hand.
Reshaped and thinned down hand and fingers.
Removed fingernails.

Will model and position new fingernails next.

Dawn2Work99.JPG


Dawn2Work100.JPG


Dawn2Work101.JPG

Dawn2Work102.JPG


Dawn2Work103.JPG


Dawn2Work104.JPG


Dawn2Work105.JPG


Dawn2Work107.JPG


Dawn2Work108.JPG
 

Attachments

Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
Sounds cool Chris...if the morphs are included I can get my own clones up and running if necessary.

I thought Paul might have to answer the one about weight mapping...so happy to wait on his response.
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
Hey Chris, I like the new arms and hands! My only observation is that from the front view, the hands seem to be off-centered in relation to the elbows, like a bit too high. Maybe the hands could be a little lower, like in the yellow line? Or perhaps raise the upper arms instead?

DawnArms.jpg
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Congraulations Chris, her hands are looking so graceful, and I'm really liking her arms as well. ;)
 

Chris

HW3D President
Staff member
Co-Founder
Thought it might be good for folks to see the new Dawn 2.0 hand (shaded) against the current Dawn SE (Wireframe). Both are set at current scale and positioning. So you can see the smaller more delicate Dawn 2.0 hand with the shortened arm length.


Dawn2Work109.JPG


Dawn2Work110.JPG


Dawn2Work111.JPG
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Oh, thanks for doing this Chris, as it really shows the difference between the two versions.
 
Top