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SKYLAB CHAT
- Thread starter skylab
- Start date
Sky -
In order to fit to/conform items from one figure to another, DS and it's auto-fit tool (which is the conformer scripting), require clones to be installed. Those clones can be found on Daz's website. I have a LOT of clones, and can pretty much fit anything TO anything if I want to.
These are all the clones I have for Genesis 1 (this means I can take clothing items FROM these figures and auto-fit them to Genesis 1) :
Note that there are no such thing (clones) to allow converting items *TO* the Generation 3/4 figures. These clones only exist to convert items to and from Genesis, G2's, and G3's. I think by default, the clones that come with the figures are very minimal. If I remember correctly, Genesis only comes with clones for M4 and V4, and the G2's only come with clones for Genesis 1. I think. I don't remember exactly anymore. LOL I basically snap up anything that will allow me to expand out my wardrobe for Genesis figures, so I have added a LOT of clones to my installation over time.
Now, regarding auto-fitting of clothes from one figure to another --
Some items require more fiddling than others. And don't EVER expect long skirts/dresses to work very well. Sickle's got some REALLY nice templates and with her projection templates at least we can have some bones in the auto-fitted skirts/robes to help, but long skirts and dresses/robe type things (including.. trench coats, capes, cloaks...) these just do not convert well from one figure to another via the auto-fit. Much better running them through Crossdresser if at all possible, which is one of the reasons I was and still am SO annoyed that Evil Innocence never bothered to make a Genesis 1 license available for Crossdresser. I think he just assumed everyone could autofit EVERYTHING to G1, and with some stuff we really could have used a CD license.
A couple of tricks to use when autofitting clothing --
1. Run the clothing item through autofit so that it conforms to your figure.
2. Now go to the SCENE tab, and make sure the newly conformed item is selected.
3. Go to the top of your DS window.
4. Click on Edit --> Figure --> Geometry --> Add Smoothing Modifier
One you've done that, you now have a smoothing modifier in the clothing. This has a couple of fields that can be adjusted to help with the appearance of the autofitted clothing. You can increase the number of Smoothing Iterations, and you can also increase the number of Collision Iterations.
Smoothing modifiers are also really helpful with using hats/head covers over the top of SOME (not all) hairs, as well as really helpful with layering things like belts or sashes over the tops of robes/shirts/etc.
Another trick which can sometimes help with autofitting clothing - especially if it's older items - is to convert the item to Sub-D.
1. Run the clothing through autofit, get it conformed to the figure.
2. Go to the SCENE tab, make sure the newly converted item is selected.
3. Go to Edit --> Figure --> Geometry --> Convert to Sub-D.
The item will now have Sub-D which increases the mesh resolution and can allow for some more leeway in terms of how well it fits and tolerates bending and posing. You can adjust the Sub-D level in the Parameters tab, just like with the Smoothing Modifier.
WARNING!! -- Do NOT set the Sub-D up above 2! You will VERY likely crash Studio if you try to do that!
You can set your RENDER Sub-D as high as you like. But the View Sub-D pretty much maxes out at 2, and trying to go over that usually results in an immediate and enthusiastic crash of Studio.
This is where you find the Sub-D settings, once you've converted a mesh over to Sub-D :
And this is where you will find the Smoothing Modifier settings once you've added it to a mesh :
This is Blake - a Genesis 1 build - using the Genesis 3 Male "Chunky Knit Sweater" outfit, done via auto-fit and the extra clones I have to be able to auto-fit backwards (from new figures to old figure). I added Sub-D, which is set as a View Sub-D of 2 and a Render Sub-D of 4. I also added Smoothing Modifier, and have the Smoothing Iterations set to 6, and the Collision Iterations set to 4 :
Now, the above is obviously NOT rendered, but you can see even in the preview, it's taking to his bends pretty well.
Shoes can be a bit finicky at times; some convert better than others. NONE of Arki's shoes will ever convert very well, at least through Autofit. I also have a lot of issues with her clothing in autofit too, which is one of the reasons I don't use it much, or buy much of her stuff. If I can't depend on it being able to convert well, I pretty much don't buy it.
Adding smoothing modifiers CAN cause some lag in the scene, if you have the modifiers set up very high. If you experience any lag, just turn the smoothing modifier OFF (there's a button in the parameters of the items with these modifiers to let you do that), and you can just turn it back on when you're ready to render.
Likewise, items that use Sub-D can also be a bit hard on some screens in the viewport during scene building. If you're getting lag, you can go to the parameters and turn the Mesh Resolution back to "Base", then turn it back to "High Resolution" just when you're ready to render.
Both Sub-D and Smoothing Modifiers can and often DO increase render times, but I find that the increase is for the most part, usually minimal. Also note that both of these can sometimes "break" a mesh, so they are not a PERFECT solution, but they can help with fitting clothing sometimes.
Sub-D can also be VERY helpful with using older props; increasing the mesh resolution on these props can sometimes do a lot for the appearance of the mesh. Other times it will break the mesh. You just have to experiment with it and play around with the settings. Each item is a little different.
Oh - before I forget - if you try to add either Sub-D or a Smoothing Modifer to an item, and DS spits an error out, then most likely that item already has those modifiers added to it, and you just have to go to the Parameters tab to adjust them.
Hope this helps.
In order to fit to/conform items from one figure to another, DS and it's auto-fit tool (which is the conformer scripting), require clones to be installed. Those clones can be found on Daz's website. I have a LOT of clones, and can pretty much fit anything TO anything if I want to.
These are all the clones I have for Genesis 1 (this means I can take clothing items FROM these figures and auto-fit them to Genesis 1) :
Note that there are no such thing (clones) to allow converting items *TO* the Generation 3/4 figures. These clones only exist to convert items to and from Genesis, G2's, and G3's. I think by default, the clones that come with the figures are very minimal. If I remember correctly, Genesis only comes with clones for M4 and V4, and the G2's only come with clones for Genesis 1. I think. I don't remember exactly anymore. LOL I basically snap up anything that will allow me to expand out my wardrobe for Genesis figures, so I have added a LOT of clones to my installation over time.
Now, regarding auto-fitting of clothes from one figure to another --
Some items require more fiddling than others. And don't EVER expect long skirts/dresses to work very well. Sickle's got some REALLY nice templates and with her projection templates at least we can have some bones in the auto-fitted skirts/robes to help, but long skirts and dresses/robe type things (including.. trench coats, capes, cloaks...) these just do not convert well from one figure to another via the auto-fit. Much better running them through Crossdresser if at all possible, which is one of the reasons I was and still am SO annoyed that Evil Innocence never bothered to make a Genesis 1 license available for Crossdresser. I think he just assumed everyone could autofit EVERYTHING to G1, and with some stuff we really could have used a CD license.
A couple of tricks to use when autofitting clothing --
1. Run the clothing item through autofit so that it conforms to your figure.
2. Now go to the SCENE tab, and make sure the newly conformed item is selected.
3. Go to the top of your DS window.
4. Click on Edit --> Figure --> Geometry --> Add Smoothing Modifier
One you've done that, you now have a smoothing modifier in the clothing. This has a couple of fields that can be adjusted to help with the appearance of the autofitted clothing. You can increase the number of Smoothing Iterations, and you can also increase the number of Collision Iterations.
Smoothing modifiers are also really helpful with using hats/head covers over the top of SOME (not all) hairs, as well as really helpful with layering things like belts or sashes over the tops of robes/shirts/etc.
Another trick which can sometimes help with autofitting clothing - especially if it's older items - is to convert the item to Sub-D.
1. Run the clothing through autofit, get it conformed to the figure.
2. Go to the SCENE tab, make sure the newly converted item is selected.
3. Go to Edit --> Figure --> Geometry --> Convert to Sub-D.
The item will now have Sub-D which increases the mesh resolution and can allow for some more leeway in terms of how well it fits and tolerates bending and posing. You can adjust the Sub-D level in the Parameters tab, just like with the Smoothing Modifier.
WARNING!! -- Do NOT set the Sub-D up above 2! You will VERY likely crash Studio if you try to do that!
You can set your RENDER Sub-D as high as you like. But the View Sub-D pretty much maxes out at 2, and trying to go over that usually results in an immediate and enthusiastic crash of Studio.
This is where you find the Sub-D settings, once you've converted a mesh over to Sub-D :
And this is where you will find the Smoothing Modifier settings once you've added it to a mesh :
This is Blake - a Genesis 1 build - using the Genesis 3 Male "Chunky Knit Sweater" outfit, done via auto-fit and the extra clones I have to be able to auto-fit backwards (from new figures to old figure). I added Sub-D, which is set as a View Sub-D of 2 and a Render Sub-D of 4. I also added Smoothing Modifier, and have the Smoothing Iterations set to 6, and the Collision Iterations set to 4 :
Now, the above is obviously NOT rendered, but you can see even in the preview, it's taking to his bends pretty well.
Shoes can be a bit finicky at times; some convert better than others. NONE of Arki's shoes will ever convert very well, at least through Autofit. I also have a lot of issues with her clothing in autofit too, which is one of the reasons I don't use it much, or buy much of her stuff. If I can't depend on it being able to convert well, I pretty much don't buy it.
Adding smoothing modifiers CAN cause some lag in the scene, if you have the modifiers set up very high. If you experience any lag, just turn the smoothing modifier OFF (there's a button in the parameters of the items with these modifiers to let you do that), and you can just turn it back on when you're ready to render.
Likewise, items that use Sub-D can also be a bit hard on some screens in the viewport during scene building. If you're getting lag, you can go to the parameters and turn the Mesh Resolution back to "Base", then turn it back to "High Resolution" just when you're ready to render.
Both Sub-D and Smoothing Modifiers can and often DO increase render times, but I find that the increase is for the most part, usually minimal. Also note that both of these can sometimes "break" a mesh, so they are not a PERFECT solution, but they can help with fitting clothing sometimes.
Sub-D can also be VERY helpful with using older props; increasing the mesh resolution on these props can sometimes do a lot for the appearance of the mesh. Other times it will break the mesh. You just have to experiment with it and play around with the settings. Each item is a little different.
Oh - before I forget - if you try to add either Sub-D or a Smoothing Modifer to an item, and DS spits an error out, then most likely that item already has those modifiers added to it, and you just have to go to the Parameters tab to adjust them.
Hope this helps.
skylab
Esteemed
Wow, thanks for the info...it won't be necessary for me to try to do it now, and I certainly couldn't be as thorough as you've done for us...thanks so much. It's for the benefit of any of our readers that may be on the fence about trying DS, either now, or if it becomes necessary in the future.
So I'm to look for clones on the DAZ site...would that be on the forum, or some other place?
I did notice that Genesis 2 could only autofit backwards to Genesis 1. Genesis 1 had the options for several older figures.
I also wish that CrossDresser would support the newer figures, both Genesis and Poser 11 Paul. I'd really like to work with him more, but he has a very limited wardrobe, and no freebies in sight.
So I'm to look for clones on the DAZ site...would that be on the forum, or some other place?
I did notice that Genesis 2 could only autofit backwards to Genesis 1. Genesis 1 had the options for several older figures.
I also wish that CrossDresser would support the newer figures, both Genesis and Poser 11 Paul. I'd really like to work with him more, but he has a very limited wardrobe, and no freebies in sight.
Give E.I. a bit of time to update his software. It usually takes him a little while to get licenses out for new figures, and with the upheaval going on with RDNA's closing, it might take him a little longer. But considering he has licenses out for CD on a lot of the less popular figures, he might actually get around to Paul and Pauline eventually.
It's going to be in the store, as store items. I'll dig up direct links for you if you want. They're on the more expensive side, but they are frequently on sale, too.
skylab
Esteemed
Yeah I usually wait for sales on everything. There was one recently...Michael 7 was around $5, so I jumped on it...and I think that's how I ended up with Genesis 3 Essentials downloaded to DS. I was surprised...I was getting it at a good price, thinking I'd have it when I finally loaded DS 4.9, but it works fine without it. The sale must have been one day only because everything is back up to being way too expensive.
The G3's will work just fine in 4.8. I use them easily. The Genesis Essentials come with your copy of Daz Studio. There is an "essentials" download for G1, the G2's, and the G3's.
I will dig up links for you shortly, when I'm back to the computer.
I will dig up links for you shortly, when I'm back to the computer.
skylab
Esteemed
The Shetland is really adorable...so is the mini saddle I didn't experience some of the problems some people say they are having. I just did a Shetland Load All, the loaded the saddle, conformed it, then loaded the bridle, and conformed it. Three steps and the pony is ready for a ride. Fasten your seat belt...
I didn't experience some of the problems some people say they are having. I just did a Shetland Load All, the loaded the saddle, conformed it, then loaded the bridle, and conformed it. Three steps and the pony is ready for a ride. Fasten your seat belt...
That looks so cute on the Shetland! And yes, from what I read in the other threads, in Poser you need to use the Load All option in order to conform things to him.
I sent you a PM regarding the autofit and projection template stuff for the Genesis figures. I just didn't feel right putting it on the thread here.
Have a good sleep, Sky. See you later.
I sent you a PM regarding the autofit and projection template stuff for the Genesis figures. I just didn't feel right putting it on the thread here.
Have a good sleep, Sky. See you later.
I love all your tutorials Seliah...I am a visual learner and these help so well for me!
Maybe I should copy that post over to the Software section also? LOL
I'm glad they help. I don't mind doing them at all.
skylab
Esteemed
Seliah, I checked your clone list and it is positively valuable information for someone interested in fitting older clothing to Genesis...and my opinion is, it's fine to post it here too if you want to (copy and paste). I think others would agree...so feel free if you want to. If it ends up being a no-no, I'll take the "ding" for it, for encouraging you....haha.
Hey Sanbie...you hear me working on her, I really appreciate her tutorials
Miss B, I was wanting so badly to play a little with the Shetland Pony, and questions about it kept coming up, and I was up to my neck in LS pose sets...haha. So this is my brief break to play I plan to do a set for Genesis, Genesis 2, and Paul...and I don't know, Genesis might work for Genesis 2. But I can afford to slow up a little bit to give Mark time to finish the room scene for the set.
Hey Sanbie...you hear me working on her, I really appreciate her tutorials
Miss B, I was wanting so badly to play a little with the Shetland Pony, and questions about it kept coming up, and I was up to my neck in LS pose sets...haha. So this is my brief break to play
I plan to do a set for Genesis, Genesis 2, and Paul...and I don't know, Genesis might work for Genesis 2. But I can afford to slow up a little bit to give Mark time to finish the room scene for the set.
skylab
Esteemed
Sorry for my quick departure earlier...sometimes fatigue sweeps over me like a wave, to the point of almost dizziness, and I know I have to lie down pretty quickly while I'm still able to walk. Getting rest and taking extra fluids helps. At my age it's not really a good idea to try to sleep eight straight hours anyway.. not only would I ache too much getting up again, but I have to time my meals and medication now. So, when I feel my energy draining, I may suddenly disappear, but just know I will be back on later
No worries, Sky. Rest when needed. I understand about timing things with meds also.
Going to be semi-afk here a short bit myself. It's 3am for me, and my dinner is now warmed up, so I'd best eat before I get distracted again. LOL
Going to be semi-afk here a short bit myself. It's 3am for me, and my dinner is now warmed up, so I'd best eat before I get distracted again. LOL
skylab
Esteemed
Funny you mention "dinner"....mine is heating in the stove now...so I have a weird eating schedule too, a typical "night shift" schedule.
Since you are a devoted DS user, I'll put this up here too...posted it for Lorraine in the RDNA thread. This is DS 1.4, still on my workstation...haha.
Since you are a devoted DS user, I'll put this up here too...posted it for Lorraine in the RDNA thread. This is DS 1.4, still on my workstation...haha.
skylab
Esteemed
...and vintage Poser, with a few history links.
Poser wiki
Kai Krause wiki
Kai Krause history and more history
Poser wiki
Kai Krause wiki
Kai Krause history and more history
LOL!! I remember that Daz interface... do you remember the first public beta? I think it was something like 0.23b or something like that!
That DS interface was an immediate "Not just no, but HELLLLLLLLL NO!!!!" for me. I HATED it!! I hated ALL of the DS interfaces up until version 4 was released. ROFL
And oh, Sky, that is NOT vintage Poser. THIS is vintage Poser!!
http://drgeep.basicwiz.com/history/P3_P4_Screen.gif
And here's the rest of the page, if you were ever curious what Poser 1 and 2 looked like :
The History of Poser
I do actually still have Poser 4 installed on my daughter's ancient Mac. But her Mac is so old it can't even navigate online anymore, so no way for me to take my own screen shot of it. But THAT is the Poser I started with.
That DS interface was an immediate "Not just no, but HELLLLLLLLL NO!!!!" for me. I HATED it!!
I hated ALL of the DS interfaces up until version 4 was released. ROFLAnd oh, Sky, that is NOT vintage Poser. THIS is vintage Poser!!
http://drgeep.basicwiz.com/history/P3_P4_Screen.gif
And here's the rest of the page, if you were ever curious what Poser 1 and 2 looked like :
The History of Poser
I do actually still have Poser 4 installed on my daughter's ancient Mac. But her Mac is so old it can't even navigate online anymore, so no way for me to take my own screen shot of it. But THAT is the Poser I started with.