SKYLAB CHAT

[skylab]

I'd be lost without mine in the kitchen...I do everything there

 

[Miss B]

I was following Seliah's sequence of loading as she requested, to look for problems

Edit to add: The main problem is everything is returning to zero pose, and it has to be tested.

I think, and I've seen folks post about this sort of thing in other apps as well, the problem is being caused by the order in which the actions are done. I think that's what's putting Dusk/Natanni back to zero position if you apply Natanni AFTER he's already been posed.

The way I understand it is, all characters are set up to load at 0/0/0, and that's the problem you're having. Try following Seliah's sequence, except apply Natanni before you pose Dusk, and see if you still have the same problem.

 

[skylab]

For Blacksmith3D which includes their Texture program, there's an update to version 6.2, and version 1.2 for Texture Transformer...just got the email notification today.

 

[skylab]

Hey Miss B I was following Seliah's sequence, and I've shut down P11 standard on my laptop now. For some reason, she's not wanting things to return to zero when Nataani is applied. I've had people ask me to adjust how I create poses to not affect positioning, or Transformation as it's called when creating the poses. Some I do, some I don't...depends on if the positioning is kinda important. I understand what you're saying Miss B...maybe chat with Seliah about this and find out what she's attempting to accomplish with this.

 

[skylab]

Miss B, here's a copy of the instructions I received:


First - thank you for being willing to test this. I appreciate it.

Okay, so what I need from you is actually pretty simple..

1 - Load Dusk, and move a body part or two to pose him. Translate him along X or Z a little bit as well.
2 - Inject all of his morph packs. This would be the starter morphs, head morphs, body morphs, the resource kit morphs, etc...
2 - Then load the INJ file into him.
3 - Then load the REM file.

Here's what I'm looking to find out :

-- Does the INJ file apply correctly to his head and body? (Does he look like Nataani's shape once it applies)
-- Check the RIGHT hand after applying the INJ - do you see any kind of mesh deformation around the right pinky and right ring fingers where they meet the metacarpals?
-- Does the INJ reset Dusk back to "zero pose"
-- Does the INJ reset Dusk back to world-center translation.
-- Does the REM file work correctly? (I'm checking for whether or not the REM translates Dusk's body or changes his pose in any way when applied. I'm also checking for body parts disappearing and-or the "cyclops" effect where all but the jaw and one eyeball disappear on the REM.)

This is the sort of issue I'm checking for on the right hand. If you see anything like this, I need to know. If you DON'T get this issue when applying the INJ, I need to know also, as it means the problem is in my copy of P11 rather than the INJ. (with a pic demonstrating the right hand distortion).

 

[Miss B]

I posted a quick comment in her Nataani thread, and I'll see what she says when she gets back online.

I may play with some character sets to see if I can do the posing first, then apply the character, and see what, if anything, is going on.

 

[skylab]

I'm sure she'd appreciate the help, the more who pitch in to try stuff, the more likely she'll arrive at a correct conclusion. Right now it's down to pretty much ruling out a bug with the Head Resource Kit...so yes, trying other characters would also help I would imagine

 

[Gadget Girl]

And Seliah....I know you're waiting for the beta test results...and I guess you won't be happy with them...

When applying Natanni INJ, Dusk does return to center location, and loses the pose, returning to zero position. The short, stocky body seems to apply fine, but his face doesn't look at all like Nataani...he just looks like Dusk in the face, with perhaps a wider head shape. So I think you're right, everything is failing in the head area. This covers step 1, now on to the next steps you've listed to check.

It's interesting because for me the head works fine, it's the right hand that's bad. Sort of the opposite as you. I haven noticed that most of the morph packs I have for Dusk often have the head and body separate. Well, sort of. For instance Body Shapes will do the whole figure, or just the head. One thing that might be happening is some sort of conflict between a morph that effects everything and one that just effects the head.

Hmmmmmm, so if I'm understanding you correctly Sky, you posed Dusk BEFORE you applied Natanni's INJ? OK, I have never done it in that order, so I've never come across this particular issue.

I always load the character, add a character's morph, add a character's skin/texture, load clothing, hair, shoes, etc., and THEN I pose the character. The last thing I do, if I'm working with Dawn or another female character, is to apply any foot pose if the clothing set comes with high heeled shoes.

I tend to do things in the same order as you Miss B, but I do know that normally applying this sort of morph won't return to a zero pose. Sometimes if I have multiple figures I will translate one off to the side, then mess with the morphs, and often remove and read them, and unless I zero the figure they don't tend to move back to the starting point.

Thanks very much, Sky. Yes, this still helps quite a bit, as it FOR SURE ruled out a corrupted program installation issue.

I think what needs to happen, is I just have to do the INJ from a .cr2, rather than the .pz2 method mentioned before in the Poser software forum.

I'm looking into how to do it from the .cr2 now. I know I keep saying that I'm ready to wash my hands of this, and I really in a lot of ways am fed up with fighting with it... but I really hate giving up on ANYTHING. Sometimes I'm a little too stubborn for my own good, and sometimes other folks can benefit from that. LOL

Just remember, you don't have to figure it all out at once. At least for myself I often find that when I run into a problem in one place, if I go off and work on something else it's much easier to fix the original problem later on.

 

[skylab]

That's what I do GG....if I hit on a problem that becomes frustrating, I usually go do something else, and return the problem at a later time. It's a way of hitting the reset button for me

...and it's gonna take those of you who are experienced at this to possibly help with solutions. I can only follow specific instructions, but I don't have much in the way of intuitive input since I've never created a character or sold a product. I do think it's worth it for vendors to look at this issue together, in case it is an issue with the head resource kit, or it will continue to affect how products perform. Maybe it needs to be a priority with future QA beta testing, and since Poser 11 is still relatively new, testing especially with it. Just my two cents, watching sorta from a distance on this issue.

 

[Terre]

Interesting.
Jim taught me to load everything I want for a figure and then pose the figure last.

 

[skylab]

Time to begin setting up poses...Peter got in over his head pretty quick

 

[skylab]

Hey Terre Well, I guess you all can see, as a poser, what comes first for me...and that may be where Seliah's coming from. It's nearly impossible to do accurate pose work with a fully dressed figure, and things like hair, beards, clothing can slow down system resources, so it easier to do realistic poses with miminal clothing. I put briefs on all my models to do pose work...so they won't be butt nekked...haha

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

I tend to do things in the same order as you Miss B, but I do know that normally applying this sort of morph won't return to a zero pose. Sometimes if I have multiple figures I will translate one off to the side, then mess with the morphs, and often remove and read them, and unless I zero the figure they don't tend to move back to the starting point.

I tend to do things in the same order as you Miss B, but I do know that normally applying this sort of morph won't return to a zero pose. Sometimes if I have multiple figures I will translate one off to the side, then mess with the morphs, and often remove and read them, and unless I zero the figure they don't tend to move back to the starting point.

Right. And that's how a morph should behave. It should not affect the world translation or the position of the figure. If it does, it was not made correctly. Obviously, I haven't made this one correctly yet.

I think, and I've seen folks post about this sort of thing in other apps as well, the problem is being caused by the order in which the actions are done. I think that's what's putting Dusk/Natanni back to zero position if you apply Natanni AFTER he's already been posed.

The way I understand it is, all characters are set up to load at 0/0/0, and that's the problem you're having. Try following Seliah's sequence, except apply Natanni before you pose Dusk, and see if you still have the same problem.

That would fail QA.

A morph should ONLY change the shape of the figure - nothing else. I actually asked Sky to pose the figure first, because I needed to know if the INJ was changing more than just the shape on her P11 standard like it was doing for me.

Just remember, you don't have to figure it all out at once. At least for myself I often find that when I run into a problem in one place, if I go off and work on something else it's much easier to fix the original problem later on.

Yeah. That's what I keep telling myself. LOL Because my brain wants to get this hammered out and completed, as I've been fighting with this morph for a couple of months now.

Hey Terre Well, I guess you all can see, as a poser, what comes first for me...and that may be where Seliah's coming from. It's nearly impossible to do accurate pose work with a fully dressed figure, and things like hair, beards, clothing can slow down system resources, so it easier to do realistic poses with miminal clothing. I put briefs on all my models to do pose work...so they won't be butt nekked...haha

I usually put skivvies on them in case anyone happens by my machine while I'm doing pose work. But I mainly asked you to do it in that order because a morph should not change anything except the shape of the figure, and if it was altering your pose, then I definitely didn't make it correctly - and it would definitely not pass QA.

 

[skylab]

That's what I thought Seliah...that you had asked me to apply things in a certain sequence for a reason...I did try to explain this in the Nataani thread, but I think they need to hear you say that. I didn't realize posting the images and testing results would evoke such a response of input...and I did my best to address it until you came back online...haha

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

It's fine, Sky! I make my creation process public for many reasons... so I certainly don't mind you posting your results on that thread! You're helping me get him sorted out and I appreciate it. Also, having other eyes on the problem can help, as sometimes new people have ideas that we haven't thought of when we're trying to solve a problem ourselves.

 

[skylab]

Netherworks script is under Scripts/Partners/Netherworks/PoseWriter Panel...and available at Content Paradise for folks that own an older version of Poser.

 

[Miss B]

That would fail QA.

A morph should ONLY change the shape of the figure - nothing else. I actually asked Sky to pose the figure first, because I needed to know if the INJ was changing more than just the shape on her P11 standard like it was doing for me.

I agree, and I don't recall what character set folks were having a problem with, as it was a while ago. I know it was before HW, and I know DAZ and RDNA QAV teams wouldn't let it pass, so it might have been from Renderosity, because I know from personal experience, their QAV team isn't as good as it should be when I had to redo a whole package so I could work with it. In that case, it was a clothing pack rather than a character set, but how it made it into the store in the condition it was in, baffled the mind.

Anyway, I just played with Dusk/Rodrigo in P9 with the order in which you do things, and all worked fine. I could try it in PP11, but I think you were only concerned with P11 Standard. Let me know if you want me to try it in PP11.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Anyway, I just played with Dusk/Rodrigo with the order in which you do things in P9, and all worked fine. I could try it in PP11, but I think you were only concerned with P11 Standard. Let me know if you want me to try it in PP11.

GG already ran him through his paces in Pro11, so I know how the INJ behaves in that version, but thanks.

I think for right now - I'm looking at having to generate an INJ from a .cr2 file, rather than the .pz2, and I think I need to get Paul on board, because this is defying all reasonable explanation at this stage. Everything I've done up to now should have worked just fine, and yet it's not behaving.

I'm going to send Paul an email or something, and see what he can suggest... because I think right now everyone's pretty much drying up on ideas to get this working. LOL I will distribute him as a skin-only pack for Poser if I have to, I just.. would rather be able to get his morph converted over if at all possible. I don't like dropping all of that from the pack unless I have no choice...

 

[Miss B]

Trying starting a Convo with him here on the forum. I think that'll get his attention faster than an email, but I could be wrong.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Arighty. Will do, thanks.