Show Us Your Dawn Renders!

[Ken1171]

In what thread is this happening at Rendo?

 

[JOdel]

I downloaded Dawn when she was first released, bought the SE edition, as well as a number of character add-ons. But I think I've only used her once. I'm not sure that I've ever actually used Dusk at all, although I did purchase him and a number of characters for him, too.

Baby Luna, otoh, I've used a number of times. And I'll probably continue to do so.

The fact is, I'm a Studio user, and quite satisfied with Genesis. If base Dawn or any of the add on characters for her looked like my idea of one of the characters that I've needed to have available in my resource library for building illustrations, I probably would have used her, or Dusk, for those particular characters. But as it turns out, they didn't.

The figures themselves are fine. But the lack of being able to easily use content built for Genesis, or the gen4 characters, with auto fit clones is going to slow me down considerably. But that's certainly not Hivewire's fault.

 

[Hornet3d]

In what thread is this happening at Rendo?

As given by Glitterati3D earlier in this thread - One in the Poser forum - Is it worth upgrading to Poser 12 and another in the Poser 12 forum titled Free version of Poser Beneficial to Vendors

 

[Ken1171]

Ok, I have read the entire "Is it worth upgrading to Poser 12" thread at Rendo, and I saw no flaming or trolling of any kind. What I saw was Summoner and Wolf discussing how much better Blender is to Poser - which is true, but totally out of context, and out of place. Poser users will NEVER use Blender, which has the steepest learning curve, even harder than learning Maya, which is a tough cookie to bite.

While delving into their endless stories about Blender, they have completely forgotten that what people like about Poser is the simplicity and easy access. Poser is 3D for all, with no knowledge of 3D required. Blender is for 3D experts - a completely different crowd. Unless you are a more experience content creator, "Poser" and "Blender" should not be used in the same sentence. Therefore these two are misleading people, and filling the thread with completely unrelated subjects.

 

[AnimaGemini]

Ok, I have read the entire "Is it worth upgrading to Poser 12" thread at Rendo, and I saw no flaming or trolling of any kind. What I saw was Summoner and Wolf discussing how much better Blender is to Poser - which is true, but totally out of context, and out of place. Poser users will NEVER use Blender, which has the steepest learning curve, even harder than learning Maya, which is a tough cookie to bite.

While delving into their endless stories about Blender, they have completely forgotten that what people like about Poser is the simplicity and easy access. Poser is 3D for all, with no knowledge of 3D required. Blender is for 3D experts - a completely different crowd. Unless you are a more experience content creator, "Poser" and "Blender" should not be used in the same sentence. Therefore these two are misleading people, and filling the thread with completely unrelated subjects.

100% Agree. Wolf is good with comparing Poser with Blender, IClone and now even with Unreal Engine and his Meta Humans. Makes no sense.
I use Blender, Unreal and sometimes IClone ( just learning IClone) , those are different worlds. Even when you can buy for Blender Kitbash, modular
packs and populate your scene with them without to have model one piece by your own, still a lot of work to set up a scene. Most Poser or DS user will not jump on this. Poser and DS are mostly hobbyists who just want to create art in their spare time.
But this kind of discussions are always good to distract from positive posts

 

[Ken1171]

But this kind of discussions are always good to distract from positive posts

That's the bottom line - they are trying to convince people that Blender is better than Poser, but I could argue that 3DSMAX or Maya are both better than Blender, but completely unrelated to Poser and its crowd. 99% of Poser users are not content creators, so what does Blender has to do with them? Blender has the steepest learning curve, difficult even to a veteran modeler like me. To recommend Blender over Poser 12 is total nonsense, misleading, and out of context. I love 3DSMAX, but I would never recommend it as a Poser substitute - that wouldn't even make sense. Is 3DSMAX better than Poser or Blender? Definitely - but what does that has to do with anything?

 

[KageRyu]

For what it's worth, I do not believe discussing threads that might be detracting to Poser from another forum here is helpful. I feel it may be more harmful than if we just continue to render and share our Dawn Renders. And certainly, I feel we should welcome renders of Dawn created with any software in this render thread. Certainly I have my software preferences, and it should be no secret by now what they are (Mariopaint FTW). Heck, I wish I had the time and patience to learn Blender, or the money for Maya. but they are different software in whole different leagues than Poser - it's like comparing Asteroids to World of Warcraft really.

 

[AnimaGemini]

@Ken1171 Agree. My husband was a real 3DSMax fan boy. He is a prof. in modelling , learned it with Catia . It was he who teach me hard surface modelling. After Autodesk go in subscription he still keep going with Max for a short time (2 year) but with his spare time it become way to expensive as hobby. Sometimes he open up Max only every 2 months for a handful time.
So he switch to Blender. Never see somebody so desperate while learning a new Software
I learn modeling with Cinema4D, switch to LW and at last to Blender. For some reason I could switch to Blender more easy ,but still a high learning curve. ( My husband suspected that as a former LW user, I have anyway a twisted brain )
And even when I use Blender, Unreal, I still keep making renders in Poser. Why? because two different pair of shoes. Two world, so far away from each other. You just can not compare them with each other.
The bottom line is, most of the Poser/DS will not switch to Blender/ Unreal and therefore the discussion about this is point and meaningless.

 

[Ken1171]

I've sent a note to Jenn that the thread is being detracted and making Poser users uncomfortable.

 

[parkdalegardener]

I know PDG, and considering how long you've been "on the scene", and how knowledgeable I've always considered you, it makes me want to stick my fist through my monitor, grab the offenders by the neck, and squeeze the life out of them.

You are making me blush my dear.

 

[parkdalegardener]

Ken I would have thought the 'give us vendors a free copy of Poser so we can make money with no outlay 'cause Renderosity screwed us and every Poser customer so we aren't getting as much cash as DAZ' thread would have provided you with a more interesting read but I'm with Kage on this one. Discussion of trolls is not for here.

BTW; like MissB and a few others around here, I use Blender but not to it's full capacity. I use it as a free modeler to make stuff for Poser. I am way more comfortable using Cycles in Poser than Blender however as I learned Superfly before Cycles and I'll animating (with it's limitations) in Poser before I sink into the weeds of the Blender pond says the guy who just stated that this type of discussion is going off topic in the previous paragraph.

 

[Hornet3d]

Ok, I have read the entire "Is it worth upgrading to Poser 12" thread at Rendo, and I saw no flaming or trolling of any kind. What I saw was Summoner and Wolf discussing how much better Blender is to Poser - which is true, but totally out of context, and out of place. Poser users will NEVER use Blender, which has the steepest learning curve, even harder than learning Maya, which is a tough cookie to bite.

While delving into their endless stories about Blender, they have completely forgotten that what people like about Poser is the simplicity and easy access. Poser is 3D for all, with no knowledge of 3D required. Blender is for 3D experts - a completely different crowd. Unless you are a more experience content creator, "Poser" and "Blender" should not be used in the same sentence. Therefore these two are misleading people, and filling the thread with completely unrelated subjects.

I've sent a note to Jenn that the thread is being detracted and making Poser users uncomfortable.

My first reaction to returning to Renderosity, after a break of two years or so, was that the flame wars and personal attacks were gone and my only regret was that is was done only after a lot of good people had left the forums never to return. My problem with the threads was the misdirection and the claims that Poser was dead/dying which, let's be honest, might put off a new artist looking at Poser or current Poser users from upgrading. That has no impact on me but as the as owners I would have thought it was something that might concern Renderosity. Somewhat strange were those claims about the lack of progress in Poser 12 from those that clearly have not upgraded to Poser 12, but then that is the Dawn story all over again.

 

[Hornet3d]

I agree! Be proud of Dawn AND Hivewire. Just remember, the folks who refuse to use the HW figures are the ones losing out, not you/us.

But, also, please keep in mind that those people are the ones who still use V4. Their refusal to move has absolutely nothing to do with the model and/or the modelers - it's not about the quality of Dawn/Dusk OR about Chris. It's about the fact that they aren't leaving Vicky and their huge runtimes in the dust to move to a new figure. It's that simple, folks.

Just remember one really important thing - Poser users are not DS users and they cannot be marketed to as if they are. Those Poser users who ARE like DS users switched to DS long ago. The ones who are left are die hard Poser users that will never likely be converted by DAZ. They will eventually tire of having nothing new for V4 and switch to a different figure when they see something attractive or necessary to something they are doing.

As is often the case I agree with your views but I think your comments points to another factor that often overlooked. Certainly there are those that are sticking to V4 because of the library of content they have built up but I think it goes deeper for a lot of other people.

If Poser was to disappear from the market tomorrow I would be very sad but does that mean I will stop using it, no it doesn't. The reason for this is that in a years time what I can do with Poser today I will still be able to do next year (I am ignoring the deactivation feature here mind). The point I am making is if Poser and V4 gives an artist all he needs why would they upgrade. A new figure will give better bending, yes, maybe, but it might bring further issues and if you are not into doing nudes is that really a major requirement.

Will I upgrade to Dawn 2 but whether that becomes my go to figure is a bigger question. As I am trying to tell a story moving onto Dawn 2 may mean a lot of work re-rendering a lot of scenes just for continuity and I need to gain an understanding of the new figure, something that took me months when I moved from V4WM to Dawn SE. This leaves me wondering how many are just content with what they have, do not necessarily see new as better, or just do not want to spend the time on new figures when the could be spending the same time on what they already have.

 

[Glitterati3D]

As is often the case I agree with your views but I think your comments points to another factor that often overlooked. Certainly there are those that are sticking to V4 because of the library of content they have built up but I think it goes deeper for a lot of other people.

If Poser was to disappear from the market tomorrow I would be very sad but does that mean I will stop using it, no it doesn't. The reason for this is that in a years time what I can do with Poser today I will still be able to do next year (I am ignoring the deactivation feature here mind). The point I am making is if Poser and V4 gives an artist all he needs why would they upgrade. A new figure will give better bending, yes, maybe, but it might bring further issues and if you are not into doing nudes is that really a major requirement.

Will I upgrade to Dawn 2 but whether that becomes my go to figure is a bigger question. As I am trying to tell a story moving onto Dawn 2 may mean a lot of work re-rendering a lot of scenes just for continuity and I need to gain an understanding of the new figure, something that took me months when I moved from V4WM to Dawn SE. This leaves me wondering how many are just content with what they have, do not necessarily see new as better, or just do not want to spend the time on new figures when the could be spending the same time on what they already have.

I'm sure you're right there. I have no doubt some folks who have long running comics/stories/projects have a very valid reason not to upgrade.

The other side, however, is folks like me who are anxious to upgrade, but just don't find anything IN Poser 12 that I find useful. I don't wait on long time renders in Superfly. I looked at my options and instead of buying a $3,000.00 GPU just for Poser, I bought another computer. I hooked it up via the router to my desktop, shared the drives and send all my renders to that computer which I use only for rendering. That cost was $300.00 for a souped up processor, large hard drive and a useful, inexpensive nVidia card (which I don't use for renders). I set up my scenes/promos on my main desktop, save them to disk, walk across the room and open the PZ3 file on the 2nd machine and send the render to the Queue Manager.

The only thing Poser 12 does better than Poser 11 AT THIS POINT is use that expensive nVidia GPU that I don't own. In fact, it breaks all the things I DO use - characters I bought last year no longer render properly, all my python programs I use in production are broken in P12, and it breaks the medium useful nVidia cards in BOTH computers I own. I'm patient and will wait for P12 to come out of Beta before I pass judgement, but I do understand those who really want to upgrade and have been waiting, or have already done so and now have to revert to an older version to render materials that can't be rendered in P12 without a lot of fiddling. It's been a very long year of BETA for those folks.

 

[Hornet3d]

I'm sure you're right there. I have no doubt some folks who have long running comics/stories/projects have a very valid reason not to upgrade.

The other side, however, is folks like me who are anxious to upgrade, but just don't find anything IN Poser 12 that I find useful. I don't wait on long time renders in Superfly. I looked at my options and instead of buying a $3,000.00 GPU just for Poser, I bought another computer. I hooked it up via the router to my desktop, shared the drives and send all my renders to that computer which I use only for rendering. That cost was $300.00 for a souped up processor, large hard drive and a useful, inexpensive nVidia card (which I don't use for renders). I set up my scenes/promos on my main desktop, save them to disk, walk across the room and open the PZ3 file on the 2nd machine and send the render to the Queue Manager.

The only thing Poser 12 does better than Poser 11 AT THIS POINT is use that expensive nVidia GPU that I don't own. In fact, it breaks all the things I DO use - characters I bought last year no longer render properly, all my python programs I use in production are broken in P12, and it breaks the medium useful nVidia cards in BOTH computers I own. I'm patient and will wait for P12 to come out of Beta before I pass judgement, but I do understand those who really want to upgrade and have been waiting, or have already done so and now have to revert to an older version to render materials that can't be rendered in P12 without a lot of fiddling. It's been a very long year of BETA for those folks.

Very valid reasons for not updating and we all have to make that judgement call as to whether an upgrade is worth the cost to us. I was recently asked for a friend to look at his PC as it had stopped working. It was either a CPU or Motherboard fault and ten years old so I told him it was uneconomic to repair. Then I saw a supermarket chain selling a system that was a multi core i5 with 8 gig of ram, 1Tb SSD and Windows 10 home for £499 and it come with a 3 year warranty. I could not build a system of that spec for that price so he went ahead and purchased it. I set it up for him and it was a dream to use. Considering some great PC bargains and the shortage of graphics cards leading to exaggerated prices your solution of buying a new PC may well be a good option for many.

For me I already had a 1080Ti card in the system and was disappointed when Poser 11 would not play ball. With Poser 12 I can render faster with the GPU than I can with a 16 core 32 thread CPU so big change.

As to the missing scripts well I had already reluctantly reverted back to an almost default UI as I had some scripts not working in Poser 11 and not being updated as the vendor had moved on either just away from Poser or to a very distant plane. The other plus for me now is that I can run Ken1171 designs scripts such as the scatter tool, IK manager and Lock master that make Poser so much easier to use in their present guise.

 

[parkdalegardener]

All I will say is that P11 happily uses my 7 year old integrated GTX 745. A card so old that it was obsolete when Dell built the machine. Bondware has upgraded P11 since taking over Poser including GPU support though few actually seem to pay attention to these things. Makes a big speed difference in renders. P12 offers OptiX support on the same machine that P11 does not.

P11 does not offer OptiX on a newer PC with an RTX card. P12 does however, in addition to Intel's AI denoiser.

These claims of hours long renders to get decent results in Superfly/Cycles are misleading. That is not correct and usually results from incorrect material setup or render settings. There are constant posts about this for as long as I can remember when using Poser.

3k is way over the top for a video card. You can buy some pretty serious computer for that price as Hornet says though I do indeed realize that monetary conversion to the currency of choice for the card makes a difference for folk in some countries, not to mention the banking fees and tax/duty if importing from out of country. Still; $3k is just way over the top.

 

[Glitterati3D]

I have to agree with parkdalegarden. Even with CPU rendering, I rarely have to wait for a Poser 11 Superfly render any longer than I did with Firefly's SSS + typically high settings for a promo render. I'm certainly not getting hours long renders.

 

[Ken1171]

Ken I would have thought the 'give us vendors a free copy of Poser so we can make money with no outlay 'cause Renderosity screwed us and every Poser customer so we aren't getting as much cash as DAZ' thread would have provided you with a more interesting read

I have to look into this thread. It would make sense that vendors could get a free copy of P12, all things considered. But the other side of the coin are "vendors" who get a free copy and never release any products. I have seen that here when Chris gave away HW products to those claiming to support them, but never did. We have to look at both sides.

My first reaction to returning to Renderosity, after a break of two years or so, was that the flame wars and personal attacks were gone and my only regret was that is was done only after a lot of good people had left the forums never to return. My problem with the threads was the misdirection and the claims that Poser was dead/dying which, let's be honest, might put off a new artist looking at Poser or current Poser users from upgrading.

I have passed this info to Jenn Blake, and she said Rendo will take action. Instead of complaining here, it's better to inform the ones who can do something about it.

As to the missing scripts well I had already reluctantly reverted back to an almost default UI as I had some scripts not working in Poser 11 and not being updated as the vendor had moved on either just away from Poser or to a very distant plane. The other plus for me now is that I can run Ken1171 designs scripts such as the scatter tool, IK manager and Lock master that make Poser so much easier to use in their present guise.

For the time being, I am keeping both P11 and 12 installed, in case I need a P11-only script for a specific task. I am under NDA, and I can't discuss the details, but all I can say is that good things will come in time concerning this issue.

P11 does not offer OptiX on a newer PC with an RTX card. P12 does however, in addition to Intel's AI denoiser.

Let's not forget "Adaptive Sampling", which speeds up P12 Superfly noise cleaning, bringing render times down considerably. Not only it removes more noise and speeds up rendering, but I don't even need to denoise it afterwards because it is very efficient as it is. To me, that's a high point in the new Cycles engine in P12. Without this, it's unbelievable how much longer it takes to render the same scene in P11. This brings Poser 12 to a while new level.

 

[Sunfire]

Hey, gang... We've gotten way off topic here can we get back to images of Dawn?

 

[Hornet3d]

Hey, gang... We've gotten way off topic here can we get back to images of Dawn?

Point taken but as part of a link, all of my recent Dawn renders shown here do use "Adaptive Sampling" and I don't think any take more than ten minutes.