Show Us Your Dawn Renders!

[Flint_Hawk]

Thank you Miss B!

 

[Art_of_Mind]

I need to get out and read threads more often, I'm guilty for just looking at the images and skipping over all the words.
poser daz - daz poser,
content creator here, and sadly what sucks from this end is I just like making stuff, I dont like making renders or collecting content, I just like to make content, I like the sculpting and uv process most, and it is hard to have to split things up and do it in different formats, I'm about to drop a bunch of cash in on poser just so I can support the program.
It's too bad all the programs didn't just decide on and share the same file format, so a content creator could just make something in one version like a .fbx .duf . cr2 .whatever - and everyone could then just load it up and use in Maya, DS, Poser, Blender, sidefx houdini, Carrara. etc.
Still to new to all this, not sure what happen to all the 3d apps back in the day causing so many different file types, but I wish they would not have done it. I don't even know what the first type was and I'm sure many many more will follow.
Just it makes it difficult for those of us that just want to make things. I could care less what render engine or program people prefer, I don't understand why anyone cares, most of the time I can't even tell if a render was done in DS or Poser or something else or what engine they used - by looking at it, usually hard to tell. I've got a feeling a lot of content creators have this same feeling I am about to share, when I see someone use something I made in a render, and that person is happy with that render, this makes me happy.
I hope what I wrote is okay? Feeling somewhat reluctant to hit the (Post Reply) button. I'm not to up on my forum etiquette.

 

[Dakorillon (IMArts)]

Well said Art_of_Mind. I do think many people will agree. I think it's like car brands or sports teams, people pick one and then they just root for them, no matter what. If you just happen to like vehicles that move on their own self power or you just like ping pong balls, it's hard to figure out what all the hoopla is about.

 

[Ken1171]

@Art_of_Mind I would also LOVE if we could all use a single file format, but each program wants to push their own, just like every phone wants to push their own charger plug. At least Poser uses standard OBJ files that are easy to open and edit with any program. I have no programs that can open and edit DUF geometry, morphs, or UVs. And it's a twisted world trying to learn and support DS when DAZ offers no documentation for CAs. I even bought some tutorials, but they become unusable right after just a couple of DS updates, where things change without notice. Creating DS contents have become a matter of dealing with proprietary file formats, random functionality changes from one update to the next, and total lack of documentation. I have overwhelming amounts of free info on how to create contents for Poser, but basically nothing for DS.

And then we hear people asking why CAs just "don't want" to support DS. Not to mention the myth of the magic button that "converts" Poser contents to DS, or the other way around. I wish things were THAT simple.

 

[Hornet3d]

I need to get out and read threads more often, I'm guilty for just looking at the images and skipping over all the words.
poser daz - daz poser,
content creator here, and sadly what sucks from this end is I just like making stuff, I dont like making renders or collecting content, I just like to make content, I like the sculpting and uv process most, and it is hard to have to split things up and do it in different formats, I'm about to drop a bunch of cash in on poser just so I can support the program.
It's too bad all the programs didn't just decide on and share the same file format, so a content creator could just make something in one version like a .fbx .duf . cr2 .whatever - and everyone could then just load it up and use in Maya, DS, Poser, Blender, sidefx houdini, Carrara. etc.
Still to new to all this, not sure what happen to all the 3d apps back in the day causing so many different file types, but I wish they would not have done it. I don't even know what the first type was and I'm sure many many more will follow.
Just it makes it difficult for those of us that just want to make things. I could care less what render engine or program people prefer, I don't understand why anyone cares, most of the time I can't even tell if a render was done in DS or Poser or something else or what engine they used - by looking at it, usually hard to tell. I've got a feeling a lot of content creators have this same feeling I am about to share, when I see someone use something I made in a render, and that person is happy with that render, this makes me happy.
I hope what I wrote is okay? Feeling somewhat reluctant to hit the (Post Reply) button. I'm not to up on my forum etiquette.

No need to feel reluctant to push the Post Reply button, I think that is well said and reminds people like me, who love doing renders, that there are others that prefer different aspects of the same hobby.

I can well understand that vendors have chosen to support one software over another, they are not responsible for the situation that has been created, they are just responding to it. Despite that understanding I do feel sad when I see something created by the likes of Stonemason that cannot be used in Poser without a lot of work. I don't think SM have helped either with Poser 11 as I understand that figures loaded into Poser and then saved will no longer work in earlier versions without modifying some aspects, that just gives vendors further headaches.

The silver lining in the cloud is hopefully quality products that vendors have spent a lot of time on, Morning Dove is a good example, will be rewarded with deserved extra sales as users are limited to some degree on what they can spend their money on. I know I try and buy anything I can make use of from the likes of Petipet at Daz, and the vendors here, that are still supporting Poser. Of course it does help when you have a figure that can be used in both DS and Poser which gives the users of both programs to unite behind a family of figures.

 

[carmen indorato]

I am not privy to what is happening behind the scenes at DAZ why or why not they make the decisions they make. i guess to fools like me their inbred marketing strategy makes sense.
I just know that I have waited since Zygote released the Zygote Centaur for an add-on pack to be offered for it. I have waited for DAZ content creators to create a good Centaur or Satyr or minotaur figure to support the HUMAN figures they offer so a render can be made that looks like the figures were all created by the same "GOD"! I have waited for the promise of Unimesh Construction touted since the release of Millenium 1 figures without satisfaction. When they finally do create figures of this sort they are EXCLUSIVELY for D/S....figures i can no longer use. IT hurt getting my newsletter when they finally announced the development and release of the Minotaur for Genesis (the closest to the Unimesh concept, and not being able to use the beautiful figure. Today they dealt me another burn by announcing their Unimesh Centaur for Genesis. So close and yet so far away. It is lovely and looks like it was created by the same hand that creas their human figures and has a slew of support product released with it.

I know that it wasn'r an act to "Hurt"my feelings....totally an impersonal marketing strategy a good example of a strong company creating and selling a lovely product. But I just can't help feeling slighted.

I learned a long time ag this saying (badly translated fro my national language to English):
"He who leans on others, ultimately falls".
I went back to college to get my MA hoping to learn 3D. Wrong time with the wrong school. Their promsse to get me up to speed in 3D was a burning failure. So much money and effort and heartache and i came out of that school no closer to being anything close to a 3D artist. 3D took off for the amateur many years later. Because of that and age and learning issues that come with it I can't learn to create my own 3D stuff. So I lean. I lean on DAZ content creators. I lean on Renderosity content creators. I lean on Hivewire content creators. I lean on content creators to deliver for me content I can use for my obsession imagery and except for an occasional gleam of light I can actually embrace and use, I fall.
Sorry for the rant i just can't grow past it all. DAZ Set me off with that newsletter first thing this morning (like a drug dealer dangling the drug of choice before the addicts eyes and telling him he will never again get it) and i think it is now time to cancel that newsletter too.
Time to distance myself for a while.

Render On All.

 

[Glitterati3D]

I don't think SM have helped either with Poser 11 as I understand that figures loaded into Poser and then saved will no longer work in earlier versions without modifying some aspects, that just gives vendors further headaches.

That has always been true with new versions of Poser, Hornet. And it's not a 'further headache' - it's just the way it is.

And, on top of it, the item will load after a short warning message. It is a very simple change of one line in a Poser file to change it to work in other versions.

But, if you create something in Poser 10 and someone tries to load it in Poser 7, they will get the error message as well if you didn't take the time to change the version number.

 

[Hornet3d]

That has always been true with new versions of Poser, Hornet. And it's not a 'further headache' - it's just the way it is.

And, on top of it, the item will load after a short warning message. It is a very simple change of one line in a Poser file to change it to work in other versions.

But, if you create something in Poser 10 and someone tries to load it in Poser 7, they will get the error message as well if you didn't take the time to change the version number.

I was aware of this, I was going to say issue but that gives it more importance than it deserves, as you say it is easily sorted. I had another issue in mind and I should been clearer. I have lifted a comment from a thread elsewhere to explain.

"The changes introduced to P11 to support subdividing morphs affect every cr2 or pz3 passed through the software, whether that user activates subdividing morphs or not. We weren't warned about this, but it affects everyone and everything."

If this is the case, I say if because I do not have Poser 11 so I cannot personally verify it, then it is an issue for me. For example, if I have Poser 11 and it is working nicely and for some reason the deactivation process kicks in I cannot revert to Poser 2014 to continue working on my scenes. On the other hand, if the same happened to me using Game Dev, I could revert.

I will hold my hand up and say I don't like the deactivation procedure so this may be just a personal issue but, if correct, I can see some difficulties for vendors.

I do not expect to be able to use features made for later versions of Poser to work in earlier versions, that would be silly. I am however concerned that if I load a scene or figure in Poser 11 and not use any of the Poser 11 features I would expect it to work, at least in the version where it was first created.

I have been a Poser user for many years and I would like to see it prosper so I am not saying this to start any software wars and if someone with Poser 11 proves that changes do not have the effect I will be more than happy.

 

[Glitterati3D]

I was aware of this, I was going to say issue but that gives it more importance than it deserves, as you say it is easily sorted. I had another issue in mind and I should been clearer. I have lifted a comment from a thread elsewhere to explain.

"The changes introduced to P11 to support subdividing morphs affect every cr2 or pz3 passed through the software, whether that user activates subdividing morphs or not. We weren't warned about this, but it affects everyone and everything."

If this is the case, I say if because I do not have Poser 11 so I cannot personally verify it, then it is an issue for me. For example, if I have Poser 11 and it is working nicely and for some reason the deactivation process kicks in I cannot revert to Poser 2014 to continue working on my scenes. On the other hand, if the same happened to me using Game Dev, I could revert.

I will hold my hand up and say I don't like the deactivation procedure so this may be just a personal issue but, if correct, I can see some difficulties for vendors.

I do not expect to be able to use features made for later versions of Poser to work in earlier versions, that would be silly. I am however concerned that if I load a scene or figure in Poser 11 and not use any of the Poser 11 features I would expect it to work, at least in the version where it was first created.

I have been a Poser user for many years and I would like to see it prosper so I am not saying this to start any software wars and if someone with Poser 11 proves that changes do not have the effect I will be more than happy.

This change did nothing more than correct a long time "lazy" practice of Poser. If you are not a rigger, it will make absolutely no difference to you as a user.

On the other hand, a rigger who made massive changes to a figure through morphs will see a difference in this correction. Technically, they have renamed morphs in P11 - something most users will never even see.

However, if you save a scene in Poser 11, you're likely to get the familiar Newer Version warning.

 

[Ken1171]

As far as I know, the only reason Poser shows that "new version" message is because of the version number right at the top of the file header. You can open the file in a text editor and change that single number, and Poser will no longer show the message. Anybody can do it.

But if there is some kind of kink in P11 that makes things incompatible with previous versions that is besides the obvious new features like unimesh skinning, then it's probably something that should be reported to SMS so they can fix it.

 

[Ken1171]

DAZ Set me off with that newsletter first thing this morning (like a drug dealer dangling the drug of choice before the addicts eyes and telling him he will never again get it) and i think it is now time to cancel that newsletter too.
Time to distance myself for a while.

Well, welcome to the HW community! Here we support Poser and DS, and don't care which one you use. ^___^

 

[Glitterati3D]

As far as I know, the only reason Poser shows that "new version" message is because of the version number right at the top of the file header. You can open the file in a text editor and change that single number, and Poser will no longer show the message. Anybody can do it.

But if there is some kind of kink in P11 that makes things incompatible with previous versions that is besides the obvious new features like unimesh skinning, then it's probably something that should be reported to SMS so they can fix it.

Ken, there's a post at Renderosity in the forums by Cage about the change from ValueParms/TargetGeom in Poser 11 changing his extensively modified and morphed figures making them incompatible with older versions.

The truth is this was a much needed correction, and makes our lives easier and better, but in the case of extensively altered old figures, which most users will never see, there can be incompatibility issues.

The casual user will never experience it.

 

[Hornet3d]

Ken, there's a post at Renderosity in the forums by Cage about the change from ValueParms/TargetGeom in Poser 11 changing his extensively modified and morphed figures making them incompatible with older versions.

The truth is this was a much needed correction, and makes our lives easier and better, but in the case of extensively altered old figures, which most users will never see, there can be incompatibility issues.

The casual user will never experience it.

Thank you for the clarification, I was unable to test in Poser 11 but it was a concern if I decided to upgrade. I was am not technical enough to understand fully the implications, just shows the old adage is true, I had just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

 

[Glitterati3D]

Thank you for the clarification, I was unable to test in Poser 11 but it was a concern if I decided to upgrade. I was am not technical enough to understand fully the implications, just shows the old adage is true, I had just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

Yeah, sometimes we techno geeks give out just enough information for the casual user to get concerned about things that just don't affect them.

You may bump into it if you load an old, heavily morphed figure you saved years ago and then re-save the scene in P11. But, the odds are very long that you'll see the problem at all, and then it will only matter if you try to re-load that scene in an old version of Poser.

 

[Hornet3d]

Yeah, sometimes we techno geeks give out just enough information for the casual user to get concerned about things that just don't affect them.

You may bump into it if you load an old, heavily morphed figure you saved years ago and then re-save the scene in P11. But, the odds are very long that you'll see the problem at all, and then it will only matter if you try to re-load that scene in an old version of Poser.

Again thank you for the technical information. It is not an issue at present as I have not upgraded to Poser 11, there are parts I like and some I have concerns about but it is good to have the facts so that I can make a qualified decision, if and when the upgrade questions comes up again.

 

[Ken1171]

If the issue only happens when people get older (heavily customized) models, load them into P11 and re-save, then that means they already have P11. Why would they want to use the item in older versions? P11 has so many improvements that I never want to run older versions - unless for product testing. It doesn't seem to be reason enough to avoid P11 to start with.

But by any means, it makes no sense to post such issues at RO or any other forum - they should submit it to SMS tech support. They are the only ones who can do something about it. Remember it is Chuck Taylor who is the new Poser product manager, and things have changed for the better at SMS tech support since then. Besides Larry Weinberg, I think very few others know Poser better than Chuck. DOZENS of new features and improvements present in the current P11 build came from my personal suggestions and requests, so I know they are listening. For instance, that new "rotation" brush from the Morphing Tool was my idea! ^____^

 

[Hornet3d]

If the issue only happens when people get older (heavily customized) models, load them into P11 and re-save, then that means they already have P11. Why would they want to use the item in older versions? P11 has so many improvements that I never want to run older versions - unless for product testing. It doesn't seem to be reason enough to avoid P11 to start with.

But by any means, it makes no sense to post such issues at RO or any other forum - they should submit it to SMS tech support. They are the only ones who can do something about it. Remember it is Chuck Taylor who is the new Poser product manager, and things have changed for the better at SMS tech support since then. Besides Larry Weinberg, I think very few others know Poser better than Chuck. DOZENS of new features and improvements present in the current P11 build came from my personal suggestions and requests, so I know they are listening. For instance, that new "rotation" brush from the Morphing Tool was my idea! ^____^

As Glitterati3D has described it, I can see that it should not be a major issue, if an issue at all. I could see some problems initially but this was due to my incomplete knowledge of the subject. It clearly is an issue for some but then we don't all use the software the same way, irrespective of who wrote it.

In fairness to the posers at RO the information was added to a thread discussing whether Poser had a future. Posts relating to this came up along the way and it appears this has been reported to SM and the reply seemed to be was that this was not a bug and therefore unlikely to be fixed. The clarification Glitterati3D would seem to support this as being a intended change in Poser 11. There was quite a discussion about it and I thought it was all conducted reasonably. The thread was later locked but not directly because of this issue.

 

[Glitterati3D]

If the issue only happens when people get older (heavily customized) models, load them into P11 and re-save, then that means they already have P11. Why would they want to use the item in older versions? P11 has so many improvements that I never want to run older versions - unless for product testing. It doesn't seem to be reason enough to avoid P11 to start with.

But by any means, it makes no sense to post such issues at RO or any other forum - they should submit it to SMS tech support. They are the only ones who can do something about it. Remember it is Chuck Taylor who is the new Poser product manager, and things have changed for the better at SMS tech support since then. Besides Larry Weinberg, I think very few others know Poser better than Chuck. DOZENS of new features and improvements present in the current P11 build came from my personal suggestions and requests, so I know they are listening. For instance, that new "rotation" brush from the Morphing Tool was my idea! ^____^

All agree, Ken. But, some folks are so stuck on backward compatibility, they throw a fit about stuff like this.

This was nothing more than what I imagine to be Chuck wanting to clean up some sloppy coding - some morphs were TargetGeoms and some were ValueParms and they needed to be unified. Only a nerd like Nerd3d would see the problem but want it fixed. And only a nerd like Cage would find an issue down the line.

But, you're correct that a user forum was the wrong place to discuss it at all because it gave casual users an idea they should be concerned.

 

[carmen indorato]

Well, welcome to the HW community! Here we support Poser and DS, and don't care which one you use. ^___^

HAHA!
I know friend.I have been here a while. What I was referring to was the DAZ marketing/product for D/S only thingy going on. But thanks for the welcome. I can use all I can get of late.

 

[LisaB]

Hey everyone! We appreciate your points of view and personal experiences on your software of choice, however, this may not be the proper thread for these types of discussions.

If you feel that you want to continue discussions perhaps we could have one of our CVBees move posts over into a new thread?

(hint: Dawn might stop complaining to us if you posted some Dawn renders along with your discussions.)

Enjoy creating!