• Welcome to the Community Forums at HiveWire 3D! Please note that the user name you choose for our forum will be displayed to the public. Our store was closed as January 4, 2021. You can find HiveWire 3D and Lisa's Botanicals products, as well as many of our Contributing Artists, at Renderosity. This thread lists where many are now selling their products. Renderosity is generously putting products which were purchased at HiveWire 3D and are now sold at their store into customer accounts by gifting them. This is not an overnight process so please be patient, if you have already emailed them about this. If you have NOT emailed them, please see the 2nd post in this thread for instructions on what you need to do

Show Us Your Dawn Renders!

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Aww, that's really cute, Mininessie (including the tiny kitty playing with the ball)! :D

New texture for my Cheongsam dress. I have used it as semi-conforming for this scene. Figure is Dawn rendered in Poser with Superfly. Pantyhose and heels are from my Classic Bunny Suit.

China_1200.jpg
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
I am still making the textures that will go with it, and I didn't adjust the body morphs yet. I also always use new items extensively to make sure they are working properly. ^^
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Isn't that what you're beta testers are for?

Anyway, I'll wait . . . not sure if it will be patiently, but I'll wait. :D
 

carmen indorato

Extraordinary
The Poser Community has ALWAYS been full of TROLLS!
Trolls come in all colors and obsessions using opinion and misguided ignorance and herd mind set to do harm. I have spanked trolls down at the other threads who get on and bash and when you ask them to prove their rants with actual facts and IMAGES you shut them up.
Most of the trolls I have seen do not even RENDER they have no galleries on the sites of the forums they bash in and many are not even artists. I think they are just bored folks with nothing better to do than to piss people off. How many of that kind of persons do we all know in the "Real" world?

I have preferences and voice my preferences as any participating member here or elsewhere. I don't expect to sway anyone especially here where EVERYONE is a Dawn user. What I do want is to be informed and intelligently learned by others better informed than me.
I have said i am not a Dawn User, (though i did spend a bit of money on her), but not because I think she is badly made or worthy of bashing but because I just don't want to invest more into her to get out of her what I have already invested In V4 and also because the images I have seen of her don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. As I said I am heavily invested in V3 I picked up almost all her offerings when first released both purchased and freebies and to be honest I HAVE NEVER USED HER or M3. And I am invested. I don't because I have not seen any images of her that don't have those ugly linebacker shoulders sticking obscenely out of place. On an otherwise as lovely a female figure those shoulders do not do much to make her look realistic. I recently read some posts in a thread that gave some pointers how to make those shoulders almost disappear and was taken aback! I feel now I have to try her for the first time in years.

Call it ignorance but I call it reluctance to use something that first impression did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling. Same as Dawn. I have seen so few images of her that make her face look different in each I am reluctant to try myself. It always has a base "look" like in her promos. I just can't explain and it bothers me as if there are just not enough dials to change her look from one user to another, one render to another. Looking at it clearly I know it is wrong but we all make decisions based on deep rooted biases we sometimes can not explain. But I do not really bash Dawn I just prefer not trying to use her......for now!

In the end it was my loss i never plugged into V3 and actually played out the bugs as was pointed out here by some of you Dawn diehards to do so with Dawn. You are right. So I am going to have to clear up some realestate in my bloated Runtime Folders for the two of them to see if I can break the mold and make them look better than I have seen others do!
 

carmen indorato

Extraordinary
Hmmm speaking of the versatility of Dawn... remember when I did a series using VW's African and Asian ladies!? I ought to REPOST those at Rendo! (I had removed my gallery there for OTHER reasons and am keeping it small, but now reading our discussion, I will add THOSE back! :) )

this one does NOT look like the base Dawn AT ALL, right!?
africablue

maasai
and
afroamer

and my Asian ladies:
asianenchan
and here she looks like a young girl before folks started making 'younger' versions of the Dawn model-
sheknowsit
and talking about bending well!!!=
modgeisha

I hope you all don't mind me adding those links...I'm REALLY proud of those series... as I said, this is when I fell in love with Dawn and really went to town with her! :)
Wow Lyne these images as you say do not look like the Base Dawn.
Thanks for showing them. Time to rethink Dawn use.
 

carmen indorato

Extraordinary
This has been my stance of the little fortune I have spent on V4 - I convert what I need for Dawn when I need it. Over time I will have build enough contents to do what I want. Even if rare, I still use V4 for characters where Dawn lacks the character morphs, and for some kinds of clothing it's easier to use V4 than to convert it for Dawn. I guess the bottom line is that I will NEVER really delete V4 from my library because I have tons of contents for her that no other figure has. Converting clothing from one figure to another is no big deal for me in Poser, and it's a peace of mind knowing I can do it when I need it.

There is some merit when it is claimed that some people will only buy figures created by DAZ. If we look back to when DAZ released Aiko3 for FREE in 2005, it has instantly become the only figure the majority of people would use in their renders - it was really overnight. By then I was supporting MayaX's AnimeDoll. and the day after nobody wanted her anymore. Free figures like that was unheard of, and people went crazy over it. Not only AnimeDoll, but many other figures just died overnight just like that. There was no competing against free. Microsoft had tons of antitrust lawsuits for doing the same in the past, but DAZ went just fine with it, and soon after established the monopoly we still see nowadays. People were just fine with it, and even defended it feverishly, for as long as they got things for free.

As like a dozen figures died overnight in 2005, many CAs went out of business - to include myself for about 2 years. Everything I had in my Rendo store just wouldn't sell anymore, and I must admit they were selling pretty good until then. That's the wonders of a monopoly., and ethically speaking, it wasn't a pretty story.

All Mil3 figures used tons of JCMs in nearly all body parts. I could model clothing for her, but it wouldn't work when posed because I didn't know how JCMs worked back then, and DAZ would keep it a secret only shared among their own vendors. Therefore I went out of business until JCMs were removed in Mil4 figures, and that was V4. At that point creating contents for DAZ figures became "democratic" again, so I became a CA again (at Rendo). When I look at the ways things happened, I think it has a lot to do with why V4 became so popular and supported. Mil3 figures was more like a close circuit with the DAZ store vendors (by withholding information, which they still do nowadays), but anybody could create contents for V4.

That is not to say V4 was an instant hit - far from that. The release version was actually pretty bad, with horrible posing. Even the final V4.2 still had ugly shoulder bending, but other vendors sold fixing morphs for that, and everybody was happy. If not for Aiko3 having previously established a DAZ monopoly, V4 could as well have never become popular with that much of bad rigging and posing. It was the sequence of events that helped her to get away with it. If you look back to that time, there were other attempts to release better quality figures, like Renda and others, but once the DAZ monopoly was established, people didn't even look at it. I saw a lot of what we see with Dawn nowadays, with people criticizing non-DAZ figures without ever trying them first.

After DAZ took the decision to depart from Poser contents, the market got divided into factions that remain to this date. For Poser users, DAZ still holds the [psychological] monopoly, but they can't use their contents anymore. That made people angry, and they are still angry nowadays. To make things worse, some DAZ users look down at them with a smug. Every now and then I get someone like that posting malicious comments at my DA gallery, claiming that Poser is "dead" and claiming they don't even know why SMS still bothers to make new versions. When I tell them that I make and sell native DS contents, they go easy on me, but it's still sad that it happens.

This is why I was so happy to join HW3D when it showed up in 2013 - it was a chance to reconcile a broken market. I have learned DS and tried to please both sides of the fence, but it seems like DS users feel no need to come here, probably because the turn of events has favored them. Many told me they have no need for Dawn, and I understand why. The DAZ monopoly established overnight in 2005 still plays a role in the way they think. As it comes down, my DS to Poser product sales rate remains a little under 2-to-10, and perhaps there is no surprises there.

As I thought the conflict was between Poser and DS, it came as a shock to me that influential people at the SMS forums were flaming Dawn (and HW as a whole) as well. I knew the market was broken and divided, but I never thought it could get to this point. Now we have Poser vs Poser as well because SMS wants to push their stock figures, and there is yet another side project cooking up a new Poser figure as well. The fire was more widespread than I thought.

Coming from that, I am not sure if Chris trying to clear things out at the SMS forums would actually help, or throw more gasoline into the fire? Trying to establish a rational argument with the herd has never been much productive if you know what I mean. Still, I wish justice could be done. This other side project figure is coming out in March, and its taking advantage of false advertisement against HW to better place itself in the market. And by the looks of it, people bought the lies and are spreading them all over the place.

If i am not mistaken wasn't DAZ (or as they were called then ZYGOTE) the first to create content for Poser up until and including P4? I think some of the folks at RDNA were also involved in some context or another. So the monopoly as you call it was not really started with A3 but much sooner. In fact I did not like using Poser 4 until Zygote released V1......because I hated the included Posette and Dork figures. They were ugly and un-realistic looking. I even went so far as to uninstall P4. It wasn't until I read in the trades of the release of V1 that I reinstalled P4 and tried again. A glorious improvement to my artwork. DAZ emerged soon after and have held my credit card hostage ever since.
If we were talking ONLY about characters it is one discourse but it fries my brain when I read Long time Poser content creators like StoneMason and Marforno (sorry can't think of the oh so many others) now creating content EXCLUSIVELY for D/S.
Now that they honed their skills to such beauty they no longer offer the best of those skills to Poser users who btw, technically put them on the map. Today was a perfect example. Stonemason created a freaking brilliant set of abandoned architecture that is gorgeous but for D/S only! I got so pissed I canceled my DAZ membership. They got enough of my money and now that they no longer offer ANYTHING new and improved I can use not on my old wishlist they no longer get any.

The argument of sales being higher for D/S users is the reason for all of the migration might be true but not completely. The real discourse according to some pretty reliable sources is the difference in modeling for the two apps. and the lack of desire modeling mesh for both apps on the part of the content creators. As someone with a marketing background limiting sales to the D/S market at the exclusion of the huge Poser markets just does not make sense to me no matter how they slice it!
 

Lyne

Distinguished
HW Honey Bear
as I say on the Gallery page:
This set - character and clothing has been a long time coming!
Created by my very best friend, whom I helped by beta testing, encouraging,
supporting through the long hours, days, months of very hard work. With many
hours of frustration and/or pure tedium working on so many sets at one time, while
learning the process of creating a skin for a character and getting all the bead work to look
so very realistic. It's been my privilege and honor to help this incredibly talented person!!
 

Flint_Hawk

Extraordinary
That's a precious piece of art mininessie!

Wonderful work Ken1171.

Lovely render Lyne & thank you for all of your help!

*

Ken Gilliland's Habitats make a wonderful setting for Morning Dove. Here she is in Nature's Wonders Big Cypress Habitat. She is sharing the bounty of the crop with her friends, the Mourning Doves.

Credits:

Dawn Special Edition by Christopher Creek Art, CG Cubed, Lisa's Botanicals & Virtual World at HiveWire 3D Creations
Morning Dove for Dawn by Flint_Hawk at HiveWire3D
Morning Dove Wardrobe-Set 1 by Flint_Hawk at HiveWire3D
Dynamics 09 for Dawn - Anarkali Dress and Scarf by Lully at HiveWire 3D
Gothic Long Hair by Pretty3D at Renderosity

SBRM Gamebirds (Mourning Dove) by Ken Gilliland at HiveWire3D

Nature's Wonders Big Cypress Habitat by Ken Gilliland at HiveWire3D

Sharing The Bounty
Sharing The Bounty.jpg
 

JOdel

Dances with Bees
HW Honey Bear
I'l probably talking out of my hat, but I get a distinct impression that there are many more morphing tools in the hands of the users, since the launch of the Genesis platform. And the tools are not only for Genesis.

I gather that there have always been at least some basic morphing packages for most figures. But typically what one bought was a specific character morph, or a package of expression morphs, or a set of fixes for specific purposes, like improving bends. Admittedly, you're more likely to find a package of morph presets (dial-spins) for Genesis than for older, or alternate figures, but they seem to be out there if one looks for them.

(Change of subject): That new package of Morning Dove (not Mourning Dove? That's what the birds are called) and her wardrobe are lovely. A pity that the base for it is mostly Poser dynamic.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
I have seen so few images of her that make her face look different in each I am reluctant to try myself. It always has a base "look" like in her promos. I just can't explain and it bothers me as if there are just not enough dials to change her look from one user to another, one render to another. Looking at it clearly I know it is wrong but we all make decisions based on deep rooted biases we sometimes can not explain. But I do not really bash Dawn I just prefer not trying to use her......for now!

Frankly, I don't think any of the renders I have done with Dawn in the recent years look anything like her original body or face shapes.

the lack of desire modeling mesh for both apps on the part of the content creators. As someone with a marketing background limiting sales to the D/S market at the exclusion of the huge Poser markets just does not make sense to me no matter how they slice it!

For the most part I have supported both Poser and DS in equal amounts, but after this many years, I now have numbers and statistics telling me that the bulk of DS users are buying at DAZ and not here, probably for the obvious reasons. However, I didn't want to jump to any conclusions when it comes to what sells and what doesn't, so I patiently waited for years while keeping an eye on the actual sales numbers. To some, it may come to no surprise that most DS users prefer to stay home, but now I have years of accumulated sales history telling me it's what's actually happening here. So it's not that I don't want to support DS, but instead it's DS users that for the most part decided not to support HW figures. In the same manner, Stonemason is a DAZ vendor, and DAZ doesn't care for Poser contents. The more hostile DAZ becomes towards Poser, the less Poser users will be buying from them, and the less sales Stonemason will have with that public. One thing leads to the other, and in the end dictate what vendors will be supporting. It's definitely not out of whim.
 

Lyne

Distinguished
HW Honey Bear
OH yay! NOW we get to see the wonderful art pieces Flint's been doing while working on the set! SO beautiful! :)

@Ken1171 looking forward to this dress...and good idea to use 'your' shoes and stockings!
 
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