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Show Us Your Dawn Renders!

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I absolutely appreciate vendors who include a Dawn fit in their products. Even though it's easy to convert hair, I rarely buy hair unless it's got a Dawn fit.

It is a timesaver to include a Dawn fit in dynamic clothing made for V4, but it's also rather easy to adjust dynamic clothing to fit Dawn. That's one of the beauties of dynamic clothing ... even if not designed for a specific figure, it can be adjusted to fit, or the figure can be adjusted to fit within the clothing. Dynamic clothing purchased for one version of a figure will work on a later version of a figure ... even if conforming clothing no longer fits.

The Poser fitting room was added to allow us to convert clothing from one figure to another. I still struggle with it and have more success if I fit the clothing in a modeler first. Now that I'm more comfortable with Silo, I should try to convert some of V4's clothing that I most liked.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
One thing is apparent: people don't want more figures - they instead want more contents for the ones they already have. The way DAZ has quickly replaced Genesis1 with Gen2, and then with Gen3 made this even more apparent, because many people are still using the original Genesis, Gen2, or even V4.

I think this is a big thing, and something that Hivewire has in it's favor. Considering I'm pretty slow on creating content, I would be scared to try and develop something for G3 because a new Genesis is likely coming soon. The fact that Dawn has had a couple iterations, but they didn't break Dawn content you already have, is a huge plus for me. It means as a CA, I'm not worried that I will make something, only to have it lost in a rush of content for the shiny new thing, and as a user when I buy something for Dawn, I feel like I'm adding to a library of content that will continue to grow and be useful for a long time.

Not all people who buy V4 stuff are buying for V4...I've also noticed a trend recently over at rendo to release dynamics for V4 with a Dawn fit? Anyone else noticed this?

I think that's very true as well. I know I still buy some V4 stuff, because I know I can convert it to use on Dawn, although if it has Dawn support built in, that's a huge plus. And that's one thing to also consider about the reason V4 still has so much new content coming out. As a Poser user, I prefer not to use DSON if I don't have to (it works better for me in Poser 11 than it did in other Poser versions, but it's still a hassle). Some Poser users won't touch it all, and although you can get the Genesis3 figures into Poser with some work, it's far from optimal.

So lots of Poser users buy V4 because it's the last of the Daz figures that works easily in Poser, and that continues to help out V4. Again I think this is something that will help Dawn over time because it does mean that some V4 users are slowly accumulating Dawn content, which might tip them to try her someday.

Actually, it now occurs to me that next time I make something dynamic for Dawn, I might make a V4 fit :p. It doesn't seem like there's a good way to do that with conforming stuff since the rigs are so different.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Now that I'm more comfortable with Silo, I should try to convert some of V4's clothing that I most liked.

This has been my stance of the little fortune I have spent on V4 - I convert what I need for Dawn when I need it. Over time I will have build enough contents to do what I want. Even if rare, I still use V4 for characters where Dawn lacks the character morphs, and for some kinds of clothing it's easier to use V4 than to convert it for Dawn. I guess the bottom line is that I will NEVER really delete V4 from my library because I have tons of contents for her that no other figure has. Converting clothing from one figure to another is no big deal for me in Poser, and it's a peace of mind knowing I can do it when I need it.

There is some merit when it is claimed that some people will only buy figures created by DAZ. If we look back to when DAZ released Aiko3 for FREE in 2005, it has instantly become the only figure the majority of people would use in their renders - it was really overnight. By then I was supporting MayaX's AnimeDoll. and the day after nobody wanted her anymore. Free figures like that was unheard of, and people went crazy over it. Not only AnimeDoll, but many other figures just died overnight just like that. There was no competing against free. Microsoft had tons of antitrust lawsuits for doing the same in the past, but DAZ went just fine with it, and soon after established the monopoly we still see nowadays. People were just fine with it, and even defended it feverishly, for as long as they got things for free.

As like a dozen figures died overnight in 2005, many CAs went out of business - to include myself for about 2 years. Everything I had in my Rendo store just wouldn't sell anymore, and I must admit they were selling pretty good until then. That's the wonders of a monopoly., and ethically speaking, it wasn't a pretty story.

All Mil3 figures used tons of JCMs in nearly all body parts. I could model clothing for her, but it wouldn't work when posed because I didn't know how JCMs worked back then, and DAZ would keep it a secret only shared among their own vendors. Therefore I went out of business until JCMs were removed in Mil4 figures, and that was V4. At that point creating contents for DAZ figures became "democratic" again, so I became a CA again (at Rendo). When I look at the ways things happened, I think it has a lot to do with why V4 became so popular and supported. Mil3 figures was more like a close circuit with the DAZ store vendors (by withholding information, which they still do nowadays), but anybody could create contents for V4.

That is not to say V4 was an instant hit - far from that. The release version was actually pretty bad, with horrible posing. Even the final V4.2 still had ugly shoulder bending, but other vendors sold fixing morphs for that, and everybody was happy. If not for Aiko3 having previously established a DAZ monopoly, V4 could as well have never become popular with that much of bad rigging and posing. It was the sequence of events that helped her to get away with it. If you look back to that time, there were other attempts to release better quality figures, like Renda and others, but once the DAZ monopoly was established, people didn't even look at it. I saw a lot of what we see with Dawn nowadays, with people criticizing non-DAZ figures without ever trying them first.

After DAZ took the decision to depart from Poser contents, the market got divided into factions that remain to this date. For Poser users, DAZ still holds the [psychological] monopoly, but they can't use their contents anymore. That made people angry, and they are still angry nowadays. To make things worse, some DAZ users look down at them with a smug. Every now and then I get someone like that posting malicious comments at my DA gallery, claiming that Poser is "dead" and claiming they don't even know why SMS still bothers to make new versions. When I tell them that I make and sell native DS contents, they go easy on me, but it's still sad that it happens.

This is why I was so happy to join HW3D when it showed up in 2013 - it was a chance to reconcile a broken market. I have learned DS and tried to please both sides of the fence, but it seems like DS users feel no need to come here, probably because the turn of events has favored them. Many told me they have no need for Dawn, and I understand why. The DAZ monopoly established overnight in 2005 still plays a role in the way they think. As it comes down, my DS to Poser product sales rate remains a little under 2-to-10, and perhaps there is no surprises there.

As I thought the conflict was between Poser and DS, it came as a shock to me that influential people at the SMS forums were flaming Dawn (and HW as a whole) as well. I knew the market was broken and divided, but I never thought it could get to this point. Now we have Poser vs Poser as well because SMS wants to push their stock figures, and there is yet another side project cooking up a new Poser figure as well. The fire was more widespread than I thought.

Coming from that, I am not sure if Chris trying to clear things out at the SMS forums would actually help, or throw more gasoline into the fire? Trying to establish a rational argument with the herd has never been much productive if you know what I mean. Still, I wish justice could be done. This other side project figure is coming out in March, and its taking advantage of false advertisement against HW to better place itself in the market. And by the looks of it, people bought the lies and are spreading them all over the place.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
And going along with all of this, I was playing with some converted V4 content (the skin and hair) with Dawn the other day which gave me some ideas. This was just a test render while I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. It gave me an idea for a totally different dial spin I want to try, so we'll see how that turns out, but still this was fun and I thought I'd share:

View media item 2688
credits in the description.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I'm with Traci on this. The second one is definitely lit better than the first. Nicely done Lyne.
 

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
Coming from that, I am not sure if Chris trying to clear things out at the SMS forums would actually help, or throw more gasoline into the fire? Trying to establish a rational argument with the herd has never been much productive if you know what I mean. Still, I wish justice could be done. This other side project figure is coming out in March, and its taking advantage of false advertisement against HW to better place itself in the market. And by the looks of it, people bought the lies and are spreading them all over the place.

I don't think Chris stepping in will do anything except fuel the fire. There are people who simply repeat the same lies over and over and have no intention of ever telling the truth.

Some of those people were beta testers for Hivewire. So they tell a lot of tales that were supposed to be protected under NDA.

I was a vendor at Renderosity when Dawn was released and at RDNA when Dusk was released.

Those brokerage houses were anything BUT supportive to the vendors on either of those products. Heck, Syyd uploaded Dusk and never spoke of him again.

At Renderosity with Dawn, we sat with half finished clothing models waiting on rigging changes until we had a week before the release date. We were given an impossible task to complete in an impossible time frame, and many of us just gave up. My Dawn At The Office set was modeled for the original Dawn, but I did not return to rigging it until after SR2 was completed.
 

Lyne

Distinguished
HW Honey Bear
Actually the SAME LIGHTS were used... I actually prefer my people realistic but I will use Lully's for special looks. :)

PS added credits at link now.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
@Lyne I like the 2nd one. The 1st one looks more 3D-ish, which the 2nd looks more natural. :)

@Glitterati3D I left Rendo over a decade ago and never looked back, so I don't follow what happens there. But I did follow the SMS forums, which by the time Dawn was released were entirely at RDNA, and like you said, it wasn't pretty. That came as a shock to me since at that point, a division between Poser users was inconceivable - it goes against any level of common sense, but it happened all the same. I guess sometimes personal interests affect people's ability to realize who's on their side, and why. SMS should be defending HW at this point, but real life is stranger than fiction. ;p
 

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
I think that they are both nice Lyne but they are different styles...the first one is very much aimed at trying to recreate the pin up look iirc what Dawn said, whereas the second one is a more photorealistic version. If there was a DS version I would certainly pick it up.
 

Hornet3d

Wise
I think that they are both nice Lyne but they are different styles...the first one is very much aimed at trying to recreate the pin up look iirc what Dawn said, whereas the second one is a more photorealistic version. If there was a DS version I would certainly pick it up.

I agree with that, I think both renders are good, although I personally like the second best, but they are appealing to different audiences. I have often said with my renders is that my aim is to produce something believable rather than photo realistic but part of that is due to the fact that most of my renders are sci-fi or fantasy based and therefore no one is ever going to mistake them for a photograph. I think the first render is what I would regard as story book and I could well see as an illustration in a book where as the second is a fine example of 3d art.
 

Hornet3d

Wise
I don't think Chris stepping in will do anything except fuel the fire. There are people who simply repeat the same lies over and over and have no intention of ever telling the truth.

Some of those people were beta testers for Hivewire. So they tell a lot of tales that were supposed to be protected under NDA.

I was a vendor at Renderosity when Dawn was released and at RDNA when Dusk was released.

Those brokerage houses were anything BUT supportive to the vendors on either of those products. Heck, Syyd uploaded Dusk and never spoke of him again.

At Renderosity with Dawn, we sat with half finished clothing models waiting on rigging changes until we had a week before the release date. We were given an impossible task to complete in an impossible time frame, and many of us just gave up. My Dawn At The Office set was modeled for the original Dawn, but I did not return to rigging it until after SR2 was completed.

I agree with you on the view that Chris stepping in will only fuel the fire. I understand how annoying it must be but the people spouting their own version of the truth do some for a number of reasons but mainly because they have their own agenda or they are too lazy to find the truth, in either case nothing is going to change their mind.

As someone who is growing very long in the tooth I am afraid this is what I see as a major problem with the Internet, that a large number of people read something but never seem to question what is said. The papers always had a bias but good journalists did try and validate stories, I believe the aim was always to try and find at least three independent sources for a story. The upside of the Internet is that everyday people can have a say and and influence, the downside is they can say what they want and lots of people will not only believe but spread the same untruths. In this case the only way to find the truth is to do some research or contact someone who uses Dawn but for the vast majority this is too much trouble and they become like sheep and follow the flock.
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
That's only available after you login. Otherwise, upper right hand corner is the login link.

I doubt I ever created a login on the Smith Micro forum as I don't have much interest in visiting it regularly. Too many of the posters there are the ones that irritated me on the RDNA forums ... which I really only visited when I was looking for an answer to a problem.

Fortunately ... they seem to avoid here :wink: We're just tooo Pollyanna here :rolleyes:

Satira, if you ever decide to go back to the SM Poser Forum, click on your avatar in the upper right hand corner and choose Settings from the menu.
 

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
I agree with you on the view that Chris stepping in will only fuel the fire. I understand how annoying it must be but the people spouting their own version of the truth do some for a number of reasons but mainly because they have their own agenda or they are too lazy to find the truth, in either case nothing is going to change their mind.

As someone who is growing very long in the tooth I am afraid this is what I see as a major problem with the Internet, that a large number of people read something but never seem to question what is said. The papers always had a bias but good journalists did try and validate stories, I believe the aim was always to try and find at least three independent sources for a story. The upside of the Internet is that everyday people can have a say and and influence, the downside is they can say what they want and lots of people will not only believe but spread the same untruths. In this case the only way to find the truth is to do some research or contact someone who uses Dawn but for the vast majority this is too much trouble and they become like sheep and follow the flock.

I think the best response to this is simply "Show and Tell" like you have been doing for quite some time now.

Getting renders and designs out there for the folks to SEE and "feel" will tell the story the way it needs to be told - look at this great figure you are missing!
 

Hornet3d

Wise
I think the best response to this is simply "Show and Tell" like you have been doing for quite some time now.

Getting renders and designs out there for the folks to SEE and "feel" will tell the story the way it needs to be told - look at this great figure you are missing!


Thank you, trying to 'Show and Tell' is one of the reasons I post so much, that is not to say that my renders are great but it does at least prove that Dawn does indeed work in Poser. Not only that but I have no artist training whatsoever so my renders are more a representation of what the man/woman in the street can do with Dawn without having to jump through any hoops to do so.

I used to post a lot at Rendo but I closed my gallery there, then it was RDNA until the start of last year when the merger was announced. So now I post here but I do know I am 'preaching to the converted' to a large degree, but I continue partly in the hope those do choose to look behind the lies will try this thread to see what people are doing with Dawn.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Talking about showing Dawn off, here's more bunniness to the world. This is Dawn with my custom body and face morphs, wearing my Classic Bunny Suit. Rendered in Poser with Octane.

Bunny_1200.jpg
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
That's only available after you login. Otherwise, upper right hand corner is the login link.
True, and I didn't create a login, I think it used my login at CP, or somewhere else. Don't recall now.

Too many of the posters there are the ones that irritated me on the RDNA forums ... which I really only visited when I was looking for an answer to a problem.
I agree, though there have been some interesting tidbits I've picked up from a couple/three of the helpful posters, especially where SuperFly rendering is concerned. Most of the posts I'm not interested in, though I always check the FireFly and SuperFly render threads, as there have been some really nice renders posted (including my Sora Ninja ;) ).
 
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