Show Us Your Dawn Renders!

[Mythocentric]

Thank you for your comments but I am really not sure I want to take the responsibility of anyone being like me when they grow up, apart from that my wife says I have never passed the mental age of 12.

Nowt wrong with that Hornet! One of the greatest compliments anyone gave me was my good friend Shanaz when she told me, "I know why you get on with kids so well now. It's because you're still a big kid yourself!", after she'd spotted me hauling a line comprised of my girls and their friends around the block on their roller skates via a length of rope tied around my waist as they shouted out instructions mostly consisting of "go faster". (I recall we actually got up to eight at one point). It's why when some fuddy-duddy tuts and tells me to 'act my age', I just look at them, smile sweetly and reply, "but I am!"

I've seen it said at other forums that people are too nice here...can you believe THAT???? A bit more of nice, and caring about other people's opinions and feelings would be good to spread around, right?

Now that is a compliment Alisa, no matter how backhanded! The truth is I am not a very nice person at times. In fact I have a reputation for being something of a 'tough negotiator' in various circles especially when it comes to fools. It's not so much that I suffer them lightly as much as I don't suffer them at all. I've spent a lot of my life as an activist especially when it concerns the wellbeing and safety of our children and there's more than one person, including the odd misinformed politician, who have exited a converation with me bearing claw marks about their person.
So what changed? In a word...Hivewire! I mentioned previously that my first encounter with Hivewire was, for me, a confrontation. After experiencing the aggression and downright trolling which seems to be the norm these days, here was a forum where people were discussing stuff sensibly with intelligent, reasoned arguement. NIRVANA!
What else could any (debatably) sensible person do? I joined in! Here's to the future!

Its not the riding of the bikes that would be the problem, it would be the falling off! LOL

As you say Rae, riding a bike is no problemo! Actually falling off, providing you have the right gear isn't a problem either! I used to be a keen mountain biker until me poor old legs decided they'd had enough and I gave my Scott Scale 30 to my daughter who uses it to ride to work in Lancaster and back, and I have fallen off more times than I care to admit (for the sake of my ego). Nope! No worries! On the other hand, the bit where you actually land! OWIIIEEEE!

 

[Pendraia]

Beautiful! I love that dress, alas, Dynamics is still beyond my skills/knowledge at the moment, if it doesn't conform or just parent....it isn't happening for me! lol.

Thanks...I've tried dynamics in Poser previously but not had much luck either...the Dyncreator plugin worked but didn't have a lot controls...the VWD one which I got recently seems better although I'm having a problem getting the dynamic simulations to work but someone has given me a suggestion to try with that.

 

[Me195]

Thank you for your comments but I am really not sure I want to take the responsibility of anyone being like me when they grow up, apart from that my wife says I have never passed the mental age of 12.

I understand the disappointment and dismay when something is said about about a figure or piece of software when you know the claim not to be true. I also understand that others may be working to their own agenda but I really struggle to understand Smith Micro's position on this. I never upgraded to Poser 11 for many reasons so I do not know how good Pauline is but, while I can't prove it, I suspect that very few purchased or upgraded to Poser 11 just to get Pauline, the improvements and additions were far more important to many. SM's makes money by selling their software so anything that encourages buyers to buy that software, or stay with Poser rather than jump ship, would seem to be in their interests to support. Poser 11 users will try out Pauline anyway, as the have the figure in their runtime and can make up their own mind. Even the fitting room suggests that the drive behind Poser is to encourage other's to use their software irrespective of their choice of figure. I love Poser and I been a user since Poser 6, upgrading at every point, including Game Dev, until Poser 11 arrived. I may still upgrade at some point or look keenly at the next upgrade, however, their stance on Dawn, which I use extensively, would make me think just a little harder before I did so. If, and I say if, Poser changed so that Dawn did not work it just might be the catalyst I need to completely jump ship, which would be a shame after so many years.

I don't know 12 is not that bad. That would mean you still have the curiosity that drives a person to learn, a more optimistic outlook, a heart that is unfamiliar with bitterness and prejudice, and fart jokes would be hysterical.

I'm not sure what all of SM's stance is on Dawn, but I can say that I've never heard the poser devs say anything negative about dawn. I've only heard them say a couple good things. In fact the poser product manager is a contributing artist here at the Hive. I would think that there would be a measure of gratitude to people here at the Hive like Chris who are largely responsible for the existence of the 3d hobbyist market in the first place, and for it evolving into a niche professional market. The negativity seems to be mostly ingrained in the community. The sad thing is that most people in that community don't even know where it comes from. They just kind of grew up in the atmosphere of it. I really wish the poser community as a whole could get past the bitterness. I really think that the solution would be for them to be apart of the Hivewire3d community. I've never found a better place to learn and grow as a 3d artist. I do want to be clear that not all of the poser community suffers from the bitterness that seems to have a hold of the community. A lot seek refuge here at the hive, some are just super tough and have stuck it out in the poser forums, and some like I used to, just stay away from forums altogether. On the subject of upgrading, I upgraded mainly for the superfly engine. I will say that I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that pauline and paul are merchant resources. Artistically speaking I still prefer to focus on Dawn and Dusk, but to a person that makes a living from game development like me, pauline and paul are extremely valuable. I don't think you ever have to worry about poser not being compatible with Dawn and Dusk. The Hivewire figures are pretty advanced. I personally plan to use the hivewire figures until I die morbid as that sounds. You know that sounded a lot more lighthearted and funny when I said it out loud than when I just typed it. Wow I hope all that hot air I've been blowing out hasn't put you to sleep. Thanks for reading all my rambling have a good one Hornet3d.

 

[Me195]

That latest one is gorgeous, Lyne, as are the others and I don't want to forget Pen's lovely Dawn
render either!

I don't feel that you salted old wounds - perhaps we might want to gather up and move those posts to a new thread, I don't know...but in any case:

Your image has generated a lot of positive comments about Dawn and this community. It's also reminded people that spreading their images of HW figures in other placess where appropriate and, without arguing or fighting, talking about this place and its excellent content elsewhere is important to the success of HiveWire. It can perhaps help some overcome impressions that are just parroted comments based on opinions of others, many of whom have never even tried any of our products and have their own reasons for knocking them and us.

I've seen it said at other forums that people are too nice here...can you believe THAT???? A bit more of nice, and caring about other people's opinions and feelings would be good to spread around, right?

I'm glad you feel that way. I would not be opposed to moving the posts to another thread. It's a subject that people are passionate about, and I wouldn't want my jabbering to bury the awesome works of art posted here.

Well my intention was to show support for Dawn. On a positive note I did post that render on the Show us your superfly renders thread and have got more like than I have ever received. I would be honored if my renders could help people get over their melissophobia.

Believe it or not I have actually been accused of being too nice myself. I took it as a compliment and so should the Hivewire community. You guys are the nicest bunch of people I've met in a long time. You're right what a world that would be.

 

[Me195]

I certainly don't think you need to apologise after all it was not your negativity you were just reporting the fact. I don't frequent other forums theses days as Hivewire has more than enough to keep my interests looked after. Because of that, and the also because I enjoy working with Dawn so much, it is easy for me to forget that these negative views still exist. Your submission just reminded me that I should redouble my efforts to show what Dawn can do in the hope others will at least begin to question. I have tried in the past, without trying to force Dawn down anyone's throat for, not only do I feel that is counter productive, I think Dawn is good enough to speak for herself, as is the rest of the Hivewire family. Sadly the places where Dawn can be shown seem to have diminished in the last year or so but that doesn't mean I should stop trying. So rather than you apologising I should be thanking you for keeping me informed.

So thank you.

That's very kind of you. You're right The Hive and it's products can speak for itself. I'll let my renders do the talking.

 

[Alisa]

Awww

For now, we're gonna leave this stuff in this thread, but don't worry about it

 

[Hornet3d]

I don't know 12 is not that bad. That would mean you still have the curiosity that drives a person to learn, a more optimistic outlook, a heart that is unfamiliar with bitterness and prejudice, and fart jokes would be hysterical.

I'm not sure what all of SM's stance is on Dawn, but I can say that I've never heard the poser devs say anything negative about dawn. I've only heard them say a couple good things. In fact the poser product manager is a contributing artist here at the Hive. I would think that there would be a measure of gratitude to people here at the Hive like Chris who are largely responsible for the existence of the 3d hobbyist market in the first place, and for it evolving into a niche professional market. The negativity seems to be mostly ingrained in the community. The sad thing is that most people in that community don't even know where it comes from. They just kind of grew up in the atmosphere of it. I really wish the poser community as a whole could get past the bitterness. I really think that the solution would be for them to be apart of the Hivewire3d community. I've never found a better place to learn and grow as a 3d artist. I do want to be clear that not all of the poser community suffers from the bitterness that seems to have a hold of the community. A lot seek refuge here at the hive, some are just super tough and have stuck it out in the poser forums, and some like I used to, just stay away from forums altogether. On the subject of upgrading, I upgraded mainly for the superfly engine. I will say that I was pleasantly surprised by the fact that pauline and paul are merchant resources. Artistically speaking I still prefer to focus on Dawn and Dusk, but to a person that makes a living from game development like me, pauline and paul are extremely valuable. I don't think you ever have to worry about poser not being compatible with Dawn and Dusk. The Hivewire figures are pretty advanced. I personally plan to use the hivewire figures until I die morbid as that sounds. You know that sounded a lot more lighthearted and funny when I said it out loud than when I just typed it. Wow I hope all that hot air I've been blowing out hasn't put you to sleep. Thanks for reading all my rambling have a good one Hornet3d.

I like your description of a 12 year old but it looks like my wife has got it wrong as none of that sounds like me, well except for the last bit.

I think some of the negativity against Dawn is historic, Dawn first saw the light of day at a dark time and a lot was expected of the figure. I think so much was expected that it would have been difficult for any figure to meet the expectations. I was one that was a little disappointed and felt the figure lacked enough basic morphs to be fully usable, but nothing stands still and so when Dawn SE was launched I give the figure another try. What I discovered was a figure that now exceeded what was expected by some measure. I was quite vocal about my disappointment at forums the first time around so it was only fair that I was just as vocal when I found things had changed. It was then I discovered that some people did not want to listen and while some people did try the new Dawn and said they were pleased the main strand of negativity remained.

I personally think that in some ways Dawn arrived at the wrong time because matters beyond the control of the community were going in a direction many were not pleased about. Some forums became......well shall we just say it was heated and so negativity was abundant and Dawn just got mixed up with that. Dawn is not alone either, Scarlet was absolutely torn to shreds in fact the personal attacks on the creators were the last straw for me and I came close to giving the hobby up. Maybe that is why I am such a fan of Dawn and Hivewire as they gave me back the enjoyment of the hobby. In my defense I will say I was very supportive of the powers that be at the other forum but that support and trust ultimately turned out to be misplaced.

Hivewire is a nice place with a great bunch of people and I have learnt a great deal here but I think it would be unhealthy to stay totally in the Hivewire bubble and not peek at what is happening outside, which is I do not find this thread to be negative, if anything it goes to remind us just how lucky we are to have this forum and the whole of the Hivewire family, both the team family and the figure family.

Things will settle back to normal before long as the stunning renders of Dawn continue and this will be largely forgotten except there may just be a little bit more drive to show Dawn to a wider audience and love for Hivewire will be a little stronger......nothing wrong in that.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

I've read through New Figures for Poser any updates? twice now, but I don't really see any massive Dawn / HiveWire hate. Maybe I just missed it because it's one LONG page rather than 24 pages ... which is a pain when there are renders posted. Which is not to say that Dawn / HiveWire hate doesn't exist. It certainly does. A few DAZ vendors seem to go out of their way to promote that hate. But, their issues seem to be more about Chris (for daring to compete with DAZ?) and about Poser (for still thriving despite their claims Poser was dead?).

There also seems to be a group of Poser users who eagerly await each figure being developed ... claiming it will be the next V4 killer. Only to be disappointed once it's released and ... guess what. It has issues. Even if they are tiny issues and are addressed in an update.

The reason I see repeated the most though is that V4 users won't switch to a new figure because they can't use their extensive collection of V4 clothing. But that hasn't stopped them from begging for and purchasing the next new clothing product for V4. Yet ... I suspect most clothing products are purchased and used once and then never used again. While a small collection of clothing is used and reused over and over.

I did see a couple comments that Dawn is considered a success ... even if she didn't replace V4 for the majority of Poser users. Or rather ... the majority of people who post on the forums that they still mostly use V4 ... after all, we have no idea how many people outside the forum communities use Poser and how many of those people use V4 or even buy content. Whether there were serious issues with Dawn when she was released ... I don't know. I never encountered any issue I considered a deal breaker. Sure, I wanted more morphs and more clothing. But, the initial lack of morphs didn't prevent me from creating custom characters with Dawn.

A New Dawn - August 10, 2013

By August, She was Mine - August 11, 2013

A Different Dawn - August 14, 2013

Yeah ... I experiment. A lot. Give me a dial, and I'm going to push it one way or another. I'll even scale body parts ... something Dawn does very well, while V4 required extensive fixing with the morphing tool. I rarely do out of the box, and even with a purchased character, I experiment and add in dial tweaks.

Head and Body Morphs provided even more flexibility once they were released. While Dawn's Head and Body morphs don't have as many morphs as V4, neither did Genesis. Which didn't stop Genesis from being a success for DS users.


Some people are just plain determined no figure can replace V4 ... unless it comes with a comparable number of morphs (that most people never use) ... a thousand or more clothing products (most of which are basically the same rehashed piece of clothing) ... and it's released by DAZ.

People seem to forget it took years for the Victoria line to reach V4. And another five years for weight mapping to appear. By V4, didn't DAZ have a large in-house pool of talent? It certainly wasn't one person modeling and one person rigging. They definitely had a rather large pool of PAs in the stable, and a large customer base ... ready to drop piles of money with every product released. V4 would have had to have been a disaster for it not to succeed.

If Dawn couldn't win over the V4 crowd ... no figure will. It isn't even about the X-factor ... which is BS. Out of the box, V4 had no "wow." Neither did Genesis. Both are pretty much bland figures and blank canvases ... as a base figure should be. I disliked V4's default texture ... to the extent I never used it.

The only thing that held Dawn back and caused her to be scorned, ridiculed, and criticized as a bad figure is that she wasn't released by DAZ. Period. Poser users would have thrown their money at DAZ ... sight unseen. Anyone who dared claim Dawn was unworkable/unusable on the DAZ forums would have been torn apart and banned. Then followed to every other forum and torn apart again. Chris would have won the Nobel Peace Prize for developing a figure again native to both DAZ and Poser.

It's the "New Figures for Poser any updates?" thread. It's 24 pages long, so don't recall what page it all started to go south, but it's been quite a while.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

So like ... if I didn't finish any thought up there it's because my keyboard went nutso on me. So, I clicked post so I could reboot my computer.

Sorry about that.

 

[Hornet3d]

I can't fault any of that Satira, and your renders show the flexibility there is if you put in the effort. I did not use Dawn straight off not because she was a bad figure but for a skill challenged user like me the lack of morphs were a limitation. There was another personal factor in play in was that I had begun to develop a slightly older figure and there was enough products around to get somewhere towards that goal with V4. Out of the box that just not possible with Dawn, for me anyway, not that it should have been of course. By the time Dawn SE came out there were some very good morphs and some excellent MR skins around so all the parts were there I just had to have an extensive play.

One limitation I found with both V4 and Dawn initially was it was difficult to create a figure that did not show it's origins, I honestly think it is much easier to do with the modern Dawn.

 

[Hornet3d]

So like ... if I didn't finish any thought up there it's because my keyboard went nutso on me. So, I clicked post so I could reboot my computer.

Sorry about that.

My keyboard is fine but my computer has a habit of just freezing so you have my sympathies.

 

[Alisa]

I never encountered any issue I considered a deal breaker. Sure, I wanted more morphs and more clothing. But, the initial lack of morphs didn't prevent me from creating custom characters with Dawn..

Oh, love those renders!

Chris would have won the Nobel Peace Prize for developing a figure again native to both DAZ and Poser.

THANK you for a much needed laugh, and an extra laugh because I can just hear Chris laughing when he sees this, and that gave me another smile

 

[Hornet3d]

After helping to take the thread of course for at least a few posts I thought I ought to do my bit to try and bring it back on track so here is Caoimhe showing off some more of her trinkets.

.

 

[Miss B]

She looks lovely Hornet.

 

[Miss B]

I've read through New Figures for Poser any updates? twice now, but I don't really see any massive Dawn / HiveWire hate. Maybe I just missed it because it's one LONG page rather than 24 pages ... which is a pain when there are renders posted.

Satira, if you ever decide to go back to the SM Poser Forum, click on your avatar in the upper right hand corner and choose Settings from the menu. On the Settings page, the second section on the right is Pagination, and if you click "Paginate topics and posts instead of using infinite scroll", I think it defaults to 20 Topics per Page and 20 Post per page. Much easier to deal with, and it'll take care of the one verrrrrrrrrry loooooooooong page issue. Also, the second section on the left is Browsing, and the third checkbox is for Delaying image loading, so they don't slow down the loading of a page on a slow computer. Some folks like that, and some don't.

Oh and thanks for posting those early renders, as I don't think I've seen them before. They really are unique, and very much your style.

 

[JOdel]

Given the long shadow that V4 *still* casts across the whole 3D -- and *definitely* the 3D Hobyists' market -- maybe the real question is just how much additional functionality weight mapping really brings to the table. I know it brings some. Possibly quite a lot. I'm pretty sure that legacy rigging doesn't support a lot of the positions that can be assumed by weight mapped figures released in the past few years.

Gen4 figures were not weight mapped figures. Consequently, they work natively in both Poser and Studio. So far as I know, they both work entirely in most of the other programs which anyone not locked into a proprietary system uses. I seriously doubt that the most of the people using V4 today are using the weight mapped version that someone brought out, years after the original version was released. They aren't using Antonia Polygon, My Michelle, or any of Smith-Micro's weight mapped figures, either. All of which are probably perfectly good figures, but they don't have the tsunami of support that's backing up V4.

And whenever people start harping on the superiority of V4 you need to keep in mind that they are talking about a figure which is based on legacy rigging. Even though nobody appears to be producing those any more. Clearly we need a wider definition of "obsolete" because legacy rigging manifestly doesn't appear to be it.

But it's beginning to seem that the end of the market which appears to be least affected by the changeover to weight mapping is 'Toons. And by this time, even the 'Toons are weight mapped.

 

[Ken1171]

I think this is less related to the kind of rigging, and is more influenced by how much support a figure has from CAs. V4 is a legacy figure but CAs are still making content for her. An important move from Mil3 to Mil4 figures was replacing JCMs with magnets, which greatly simplifies content creation. Rigging with loads of JCMs on Mil3 figures was a nightmare. Later figures went back to using JCMs instead of magnets, and that might be a factor as well.

One thing is apparent: people don't want more figures - they instead want more contents for the ones they already have. The way DAZ has quickly replaced Genesis1 with Gen2, and then with Gen3 made this even more apparent, because many people are still using the original Genesis, Gen2, or even V4.

That's why I think the kind of rigging is less relevant here. With the amount of contents V4 has, people want to protect their investment, and I believe that's the most important factor to them. For CAs, legacy rigging with magnets (instead of JCMs) is quicker and easier to handle. There is also the fact that DAZ gave Mil4 figures enough time to settle down before coming up with Genesis. And when Gen came out, DAZ didn't give it enough time before Gen2 and 3 came out, which make people mad because of the money they invested on the original Genesis. This is also a reason why so much of the contents created between Gen1 and Gen3 were remakes of existing contents, because CAs were not happy about it. Investing on DAZ figures became a risk for both consumers and CAs. It just gave them one more reason to stick with V4.

 

[Deleted member 325]

The only thing that held Dawn back and caused her to be scorned, ridiculed, and criticized as a bad figure is that she wasn't released by DAZ. Period. Poser users would have thrown their money at DAZ ... sight unseen. Anyone who dared claim Dawn was unworkable/unusable on the DAZ forums would have been torn apart and banned. Then followed to every other forum and torn apart again. Chris would have won the Nobel Peace Prize for developing a figure again native to both DAZ and Poser.

Been there first hand. Initially I was offering constructive criticism or advice at that, or trying to address and actual bug found... but yeah... certain Dazites still report back on my doings to the powers that be and try to cause troubles... I shoulda pronounced all the words clearly... where's Ash when you need him.

One thing is apparent: people don't want more figures - they instead want more contents for the ones they already have. The way DAZ has quickly replaced Genesis1 with Gen2, and then with Gen3 made this even more apparent, because many people are still using the original Genesis, Gen2, or even V4.

Absolutely. This has been my stance since before the switch even to V4. I would rather have more support for what is already around (and I still use Generation 3 and 2 figures a bit and the G2s from SM). My biggest setback with Dusk/Dawn is that there is not yet the support in Costumes and Morphs to do the things I would need and want full time as a main character. However, the pool is growing, so I hold out hope. I still plan, someday, to move forward with my attempts at rigging and modeling to make clothing/add-ons for the two, thanks to some wonderful free webinars by Sixus 1 on the subjects of modelling and rigging.
I hope to have my Poser Installations back installed tonight, and have a render or two in the next few days. I need to do some artwork, I haven't done any in months.

 

[Pendraia]

Another aspect to consider with V4 is that the original Genesis can not only use her textures but also her clothing. Genesis 2 did get the ability to use clothing also iirc but I can't remember if it can use her textures? Does anyone know?
Genesis 3 initially wasn't able to use either but that may have changed via new products from vendors...I'm fairly sure there were uv's released for Genesis 3 that allow texture usage.

Not all people who buy V4 stuff are buying for V4...I've also noticed a trend recently over at rendo to release dynamics for V4 with a Dawn fit? Anyone else noticed this?

Everyone seems to think that things need to be accepted straight away to be classified as a success...I'm not sure that I agree with that definition. Dawn had a slow start but as far as I'm concerned is still very much in the game. Dawn SE brought in more users and as more morphs and clothing become available I think we'll see even more of a following develop.

The other thing that bugs me about all this is the concept that one figure is all that anyone wants. I have Dawn but I also have Genesis3 and I do use both. Dawn is my main go to figure at the moment but I still buy stuff for Genesis 3 also.

Before Genesis I had numerous figures including many of Nursoda's, as an artist I'm not about to limit myself to one figure now...also I want a thriving competitive marketplace to buy from not a monopoly.

 

[Hornet3d]

Been there first hand. Initially I was offering constructive criticism or advice at that, or trying to address and actual bug found... but yeah... certain Dazites still report back on my doings to the powers that be and try to cause troubles... I shoulda pronounced all the words clearly... where's Ash when you need him.


Absolutely. This has been my stance since before the switch even to V4. I would rather have more support for what is already around (and I still use Generation 3 and 2 figures a bit and the G2s from SM). My biggest setback with Dusk/Dawn is that there is not yet the support in Costumes and Morphs to do the things I would need and want full time as a main character. However, the pool is growing, so I hold out hope. I still plan, someday, to move forward with my attempts at rigging and modeling to make clothing/add-ons for the two, thanks to some wonderful free webinars by Sixus 1 on the subjects of modelling and rigging.
I hope to have my Poser Installations back installed tonight, and have a render or two in the next few days. I need to do some artwork, I haven't done any in months.

Some time back, in another place, when I suggested that there was a limited interest in yet another figure the result was close to a lynch party waded in. I think it is true and I suspect most people upgrade Poser for the extra features rather than another figure. That is not to say they won't use the other figure I am just guessing it was not their prime reason to upgrade.

I can we understand user wanting to use the V4 wardrobe as, if they are anything like me, they have a small fortune invested in content without it any new figure is going to have some big limitations. The other aspect I think that is often forgotten is that, even if there is a drive for a new figure in the forums, those people are but a small percentage of the buyers and there will be many more still buying for V4 and other figures who never visit a forum.

Another aspect to consider with V4 is that the original Genesis can not only use her textures but also her clothing. Genesis 2 did get the ability to use clothing also iirc but I can't remember if it can use her textures? Does anyone know?
Genesis 3 initially wasn't able to use either but that may have changed via new products from vendors...I'm fairly sure there were uv's released for Genesis 3 that allow texture usage.

Not all people who buy V4 stuff are buying for V4...I've also noticed a trend recently over at rendo to release dynamics for V4 with a Dawn fit? Anyone else noticed this?

Everyone seems to think that things need to be accepted straight away to be classified as a success...I'm not sure that I agree with that definition. Dawn had a slow start but as far as I'm concerned is still very much in the game. Dawn SE brought in more users and as more morphs and clothing become available I think we'll see even more of a following develop.

The other thing that bugs me about all this is the concept that one figure is all that anyone wants. I have Dawn but I also have Genesis3 and I do use both. Dawn is my main go to figure at the moment but I still buy stuff for Genesis 3 also.

Before Genesis I had numerous figures including many of Nursoda's, as an artist I'm not about to limit myself to one figure now...also I want a thriving competitive marketplace to buy from not a monopoly.

The wish to use V4 content actually goes wider than just using what you have, buyers also want to know that the content they buy today will be usable for sometime to come, which is why I think Hivewire have the right idea. They are committed to Dawn and Dusk and the development effort is focused on growing the Hivewire family. If I buy something for Dawn today I want to know it will still be able to used on the Hivewire figure in a years time and not find out there is a DawnG3 released that needs a whole new wardrobe and the figure is of limited use until I have afforded that wardrobe.

Like you I have seen a trend for products that are both V4 and Dawn friendly, not only dynamic clothing, Ali does a Dawn fit for most the hair products and Fabi has products to allow both V4 hair and jewelry to be used on Dawn. I think this trend will continue as vendors realise there will never be another figure as dominant as V4 was/is, the need is to cover the main figures that are being used.

I agree on your comments about the use of figures, while I predominantly use Dawn I often use V4 and even Scarlet where I have more than one main figure in a render.