Runtime DNA merges with DAZ 3D

[eclark1894]

I think it's unlikely that Colm and Traveler would let other vendors convince them to abandon Poser all together considering how long they've been around. Plus, as I said, why abandon what you know to be an already lucrative market? One other thing, Poser users still buy things like props and sets. Converting them between Studio and Poser isn't that big a deal, anymore than it was for Studio users when Poser was on top. Clothing content makers I might agree with you on, since they tend to follow the dominant figure in the market.

 

[quietrob]

I think it's unlikely that Colm and Traveler would let other vendors convince them to abandon Poser all together considering how long they've been around. Plus, as I said, why abandon what you know to be an already lucrative market? One other thing, Poser users still buy things like props and sets. Converting them between Studio and Poser isn't that big a deal, anymore than it was for Studio users when Poser was on top. Clothing content makers I might agree with you on, since they tend to follow the dominant figure in the market.

I can certainly agree with that. I still pick up Poser Props from DAZ and even the occasional DAZ only product can be converted while in Studio to a PP2 file. I don't know the process of going from a raw OBJ to a finished prop. I don't even know for certain if DAZ even uses OBJ's. If they did I would think they could hand it off at that point to a Poser expert and still gain cash and accolades from both sides. I'm probably being too simplistic about the process. Still, I could only dream of having Ironman13 make that new casino for Poser but it is daunting for a semi rookie like myself. My best Conversion so far is the Star Fury MkII. Took roughly a night for everything from Start to finish after some nice folks over at the DAZ commons helped me out with some tips. The second best star fighter design I've ever seen.

One thing. The Genesis 3 clothing looks incredible. Does anyone who has Poser 11 think that S/M is competitive when it comes to materials and textures?

 

[eclark1894]

I can certainly agree with that. I still pick up Poser Props from DAZ and even the occasional DAZ only product can be converted while in Studio to a PP2 file. I don't know the process of going from a raw OBJ to a finished prop. I don't even know for certain if DAZ even uses OBJ's. If they did I would think they could hand it off at that point to a Poser expert and still gain cash and accolades from both sides. I'm probably being too simplistic about the process. Still, I could only dream of having Ironman13 make that new casino for Poser but it is daunting for a semi rookie like myself. My best Conversion so far is the Star Fury MkII. Took roughly a night for everything from Start to finish after some nice folks over at the DAZ commons helped me out with some tips. The second best star fighter design I've ever seen.

One thing. The Genesis 3 clothing looks incredible. Does anyone who has Poser 11 think that S/M is competitive when it comes to materials and textures?

No, but that's not really their thing. They're a software company. DAZ has it all over them when it comes to content. They could be more competitive, but judging from how long it takes them to even recognize a threat to their bottom line, let alone respond, I don't see it happening soon.

 

[Glitterati3D]

One thing. The Genesis 3 clothing looks incredible. Does anyone who has Poser 11 think that S/M is competitive when it comes to materials and textures?

LOL, I'm not sure what you are comparing. Do you mean Poser's default items that come with the software? Those things go back to Poser5 materials, so no, they can't compete with anything put out on the market today.

But, products that vendors put out for Poser 11? Heck, yes, they compete. Frankly, Poser's material room has always been superior to the DAZ surface tab.

You can't compare apples and oranges though.

 

[eclark1894]

Apples and oranges, night and day, either way. Look at how Poser and DAZ both approach content development. Poser has always encourage artists to create and make their own content. That includes shaders and materials. They give you the tools for creating your own morphs, or fitting your clothes to several figures. Even scripting new features and utilities. Poser's all about encouraging innovation.

Now look at how DAZ operates. They don't really encourage anyone to make anything, and especially not for any figure that's not one of theirs. They're extremely proprietary, and please, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. But that's how they operate. They WANT you to buy content. It's the reason their software is free.

 

[quietrob]

A proven business model. Microsoft initally gave away Excel. It was bundled up, always in the way and free. Another competing company made a spread sheet called Lotus 1-2-3. It wasn't free. Now Lotus 1-2-3 is pretty much gone (2014 support was ended) and Excel roughly costs about $100 stand alone per computer. Everyone likes free.

Still, I think I'm not alone in remember "The Good Old Days" when DAZ did make better content for Poser than the makers of Poser. I do find your Poser and DAZ comparison intriguing. I never looked at it that way, EC.

 

[Miss B]

I always preferred Lotus 1-2-3 to Excel, but as you say, you use what's still available.

 

[Willowisp]

And today we have OpenOffice/LibreOffice

 

[Hornet3d]

I don't blame vendors for following the money, they put a lot of hard work in and reserve to be rewarded but it is not just a simple question of what is selling. For example if someone new to the hobby was to look at Hivewire3D they would get the impression that Dawn was selling well, but look at Daz and it would look like there was no money to be made at all. Yes I know the history behind some of this but it is not just Hivewire and Daz, I suspect that the profit for Poser content over at another content vendor is well down but is that because there is a dwindling market for Poser or because it is so hard to find any Poser content in the first place.
I am spending far less on the hobby than I was a year ago but I am using Poser more than I ever did. I still buy pretty much anything that interests me here at Hivewire and I do buy some of the excellent sci-fi content available at Daz providing I can use in Poser without jumping through hoops. I could spend a small fortune at Daz on some of the Daz only stuff but I don't want to have to use DS to do it. So I keep my money in my wallet and Daz and some vendors miss out on a sale. The big question is, how many others are there like me?

 

[Hornet3d]

Whoops I did of course mean that the vendors deserve to be rewarded, not reserve. My fault for reading what I thought I typed not what I typed, if only we had wrong word checkers as well as spell checkers.

 

[eclark1894]

I don't blame vendors for following the money, they put a lot of hard work in and reserve to be rewarded but it is not just a simple question of what is selling. For example if someone new to the hobby was to look at Hivewire3D they would get the impression that Dawn was selling well, but look at Daz and it would look like there was no money to be made at all. Yes I know the history behind some of this but it is not just Hivewire and Daz, I suspect that the profit for Poser content over at another content vendor is well down but is that because there is a dwindling market for Poser or because it is so hard to find any Poser content in the first place.
I am spending far less on the hobby than I was a year ago but I am using Poser more than I ever did. I still buy pretty much anything that interests me here at Hivewire and I do buy some of the excellent sci-fi content available at Daz providing I can use in Poser without jumping through hoops. I could spend a small fortune at Daz on some of the Daz only stuff but I don't want to have to use DS to do it. So I keep my money in my wallet and Daz and some vendors miss out on a sale. The big question is, how many others are there like me?

I'm not faulting anyone, especially not the vendors, or DAZ or SM. Well, okay, maybe SM just a little, but even there, I have to take a wait and see what they do approach. They could market harder, and they could be a bit more aggressive in fighting back on the encroachment of their market. DAZ literally just took their "official forum" store away from them, and closed it down. How long can they ignore shots across their bow like that? I do want to see them get aggressive and fight back. Adopt Dawn and Dusk as their official figures and cross promote the heck out of them with Hivewire.

I haven't actually used Pauline yet, but I want the figure fragmentation to stop. Let the remaining clothing content makers get behind Dusk and Dawn and start making content that will woo back the users Poser lost to Studio.

 

[Hornet3d]

My apologies if you think my response is aimed at you in any way, it wasn't. I was very supportive of SM until the days of the deactivation service which is at least part of the reason that I did not upgrade to Poser 11. I do agree with you that they could be more aggressive in selling Poser. I know that their approach to the market has always been different to that of Daz but with so many stories that there is a decline in Poser use you would think that would try and counter that. Is it really a decline in Poser use or people not buying as much Poser content, if it is the latter, I can only say that you cannot buy what is not for sale.

 

[quietrob]

I do buy some of the excellent sci-fi content available at Daz providing I can use in Poser without jumping through hoops. I could spend a small fortune at Daz on some of the Daz only stuff but I don't want to have to use DS to do it. So I keep my money in my wallet and Daz and some vendors miss out on a sale. The big question is, how many others are there like me?

I sho nuff don't count for much but you just described me to a T. I like what they make but I'm not jumping through hoops to use it. I used to spend a small fortune over there but I suppose they don't miss my cash or they would do something to keep it.

 

[Wonderland]

Smith Micro was at Siggraph but Daz and Rendo weren't this year. Strange. The SM people were very friendly, took a photo of me with an art piece I had printed there in the studio and tweeted it... And I felt really bad because I have started to learn DS, and there is huge support in the Daz forums and it's back to an upbeat feel there like it was pre-Genesis. Colm and Traveler are contributing in the forums all the time, answering everyone's questions and the sales have been crazy good, sometimes getting old RDNA products for as low as 18 cents, and tons of Poser stuff can be found at the right time ridiculously cheap. The Kids 4 pro bundle was a freebie with purchase. There is now a way to get G3 in Poser but I haven't tried it because I think Iray renders realism better than Poser and I'm fine with using V4 stuff in Poser because I use it for stylized work with a lot of post anyway.

That said, at Siggraph, SM was touting all their software, not just Poser... I did meet a young new guy who said he was developing a new Poser figure, but I'm not sure it could beat out G3 and ALL the new original figures Daz is streaming out... And it was V7 who is sooooo gorgeous and given away for free at times that also lured people over to Daz. I'm not sure this guy would know about standards of beauty, didn't seem like the type of guy who looks at fashion magazines or even Victoria Secret catalogs LOL.. And even if he does come out with one or two great figures, it can't compete with ALL the new original figures Daz is churning out, not to mention the PA products that all can be combined and morphed together in limitless combinations. And Stonemason, Colm, Traveler, and many others have jumped ship creating for DS only. Just doesn't look good for Poser's future unfortunately.

Poser's marketing team is still trying, doing a great job on social media but that's not enough at this point. Daz has a huge devoted following and the sales are so good, their marketing is impeccable, keeping people checking in several times a day for 70% or more off "Flash Grabs" and there is no site for SM to do that or really much to sell after the software. This is the only site that seems to really have a community and it's much smaller than Daz's. I hope Poser can pull itself out of this, but I'm not so sure... I thought everyone would leave Daz when Genesis came, but they prevailed on without me and so many others who did leave. And they are back in full swing. And I guess I'm now bi-software. But the mixing of morphs in DS is a lot of fun and you can't do that to as large an extent with Poser and the way you can save stuff out there is much easier.

Poser was my first love, I started with Poser 3 and I hate seeing what's happening. I really hope SM can come up with something to reinvent themselves, come up with an amazing new thing that will pull back old users and bring in new ones. Plus I saw the new Poser-like software that Adobe now has, not sure if it's on the market yet, saw a demo at Siggraph and it looked kind of like Poser 7-ish, but they have the resources and audience to upgrade that pretty quickly so there could be a new player in the race... Not sure what content is compatible with it though. Walked away in the middle of the demo after asking "Isn't that just like Poser or Daz Studio?" I flustered the guy for a moment and walked away... Everything is going to be about VR in a few years anyway...

 

[Kerya]

... Converting them between Studio and Poser isn't that big a deal, anymore than it was for Studio users when Poser was on top....

In this case it is a big deal ... because much, very much of Terradome is Materials and Lighting/Atmosphere - and those are not compatible between the two softwares.

 

[Kerya]

One thing. The Genesis 3 clothing looks incredible. Does anyone who has Poser 11 think that S/M is competitive when it comes to materials and textures?

SM is not competitive for content - they are interested in the sale of the software, not in selling content.
But if you are asking about competitiveness between Poser materials and Dazstudio materials - yes, I think they have the same quality. You just have to know the software and how to use it.

 

[Kerya]

... I was very supportive of SM until the days of the deactivation service which is at least part of the reason that I did not upgrade to Poser 11. ...

Which is the reason why I don't have PP11 ...

 

[Hornet3d]

I do think another point that is often missed is that competition is generally a good thing. If Poser did fail it wold be bad for the whole community and I suspect a lot of people would either leave the hobby or move onto other more expensive programs. In the long run that could also be bad for Daz, like politics it is often only a strong opposition that keeps governments honest.

Which is another reason that I like the forums here, Poser and DS users mix quite happily here and are generally interested in the art created and not too bothered by which software produced it. I love to see how iRay and Superfly renders compare even though I don't use either at present. If tackled correctly there should be enough of a share in the market for Poser and DS to exist and progress, sadly the signs are that some of the potential sales are being lost which must stifle the hobby to some degree even if it cannot be measured. I don't blame the vendors, I blame the environment that has been created.

 

[eclark1894]

To be honest, if I could do half the things in Poser that i can in Blender I'd be saying "DAZ who?"

 

[Gadget Girl]

I know that their approach to the market has always been different to that of Daz but with so many stories that there is a decline in Poser use you would think that would try and counter that. Is it really a decline in Poser use or people not buying as much Poser content, if it is the latter, I can only say that you cannot buy what is not for sale.

I sho nuff don't count for much but you just described me to a T. I like what they make but I'm not jumping through hoops to use it. I used to spend a small fortune over there but I suppose they don't miss my cash or they would do something to keep it.

So something I've always wondered about is how much of Daz's revenue is from new users who pick up DS for free, buy a couple things, and then never really get into 3d art? Of course Daz does have a lot of very loyal users but one thing they are able to do because of their business model is repackage a lot of content, because they know many of their users won't have been around long enough to have older versions. Even though I know the newer Genesis figures are better than the old ones, I'd be curious how many people bought the Morphing Fantasy Dress for v3, then v4, then Genesis, and G2, and so on.

I do think another point that is often missed is that competition is generally a good thing. If Poser did fail it wold be bad for the whole community and I suspect a lot of people would either leave the hobby or move onto other more expensive programs. In the long run that could also be bad for Daz, like politics it is often only a strong opposition that keeps governments honest.

I agree competition is a good thing, both with software programs and with content. The funny thing is, I started out in Maya, but the overhead of making and rigging figures to pose and animate was so huge there, that I found my way to DS and then to Poser. Poser was the perfect in-between for me, because I didn't have to make content from scratch, but it's animation tools were so much better (of course I do very little animation these days because I never seem to have the time, but anyway. . . ).