Discussion in 'The Meadow' started by Chris, Oct 27, 2018.
Woot!! GO HIVEWIRE! As long as you guys keep supporting Poser, I'm ecstatic for you!!
I am curious though. I notice that everything mentioned so far seems to revolve around the more or less anthropomorphic figures including the Gorilla. Does this mean that there is nothing in the works for the other animals such as Harry, the Dragon or the cat and dog?
Hmm... I just read more about CC3 from Ken and it seems this all borrows from the Genesis platform??? Or am I misunderstanding? I guess that's why Harry and the other animals might be left out so far??
Hmmmm, I thought I read a comment somewhere that it doesn't (as yet) work with quadrupeds. If that's the case, then the HW animals won't work with CC3.
Congrats to HW for this partnership!
Love to see the HW cat ported to iClone or CC. Would snap it up in a minute.
You can import quadaped figures. but it has to be done using 3DXchanges (comes with iClone) and it's a more complicated process. But it can be done.
As to dragons, I have at least 5 different dragons I purchased from the Reallusion Content store that come with built-in animations.
Personally, Im 'more interested in getting a port of cats, such as the HW or Millenium Cat (with phenom morphs). It should be possible, but not using CC3.
Ahhhhh, OK. Now I remember that being mentioned as far as quadrupeds. Not sure why I thought it wasn't possible at all when I posted earlier.
But... but... you already have me halfways there. You can't stop now!
This sounds like a very nice partnership already (congratulations to everybody involved!) - though I'm not sure I fully understand: Would we already be able to use the HW family we own for Poser/DAZ or would we have to rebuy it for CC3? And did I get that right... we would be able to use other morphs with them?
(That would be SO awesome. I love the figures so much, but the morph packs available right now just aren't sufficiently detailed for me to dial in characters exactly the way I imagine them to look. But Dusk + more morphs would equal my personal 3D figure Utopia! )
And while by now I'm pretty much sold on CC3, I really, really want to hear more about iClone. I tried that one a few (dozen) years ago, and the quality of the render engine pretty much threw me off immediately.
Your post sounds like over these past few versions it turned into quite a different beast - but just how much useful would it be to someone used to Poser? How effective is it as a "replacement" for still renders? Does it also offer the essentials (dynamic clothes, dynamic hair, a quality built-in render engine), or even some of the nice-to-haves (other physics, multi-instancing)? Did I misread, or does it offer tools for creating more immersive sets (if so, which ones)? And how much hassle is it to create a character in CC3 and then use it in iClone?
Sorry for the flood of questions, but with Poser development pretty much dead and gone, I would love to get my greedy fingers onto a viable alternative, and if it potentially comes with support for HW meshes, all the better...
Poser development is not dead and gone Nathrai. You should come over to the SM Poser Forum, as the head of the dev team has already posted, and will be continuing to post as he has news for us on what's being developed, and when we can see it.
Oh, and while I'm at it, welcome to the HiveWire forums. I hope you enjoy your stay here.
Thanks, Miss B - though I'm just a little bit cheating. I've been around since the beginning, my account just got lost during one of the forum updates, and as a professional lurker I simply was too lazy to re-register.
To be true, after the last "Poser users will be ecstatic about our upcoming news" (which then turned out to simply be the Rendo-CP-Merger and the 11.1 mini-update, that brought nothing new to the table), I've become a bit disenchanted with SM and "big plans for Poser".
Don't get me wrong, Poser will probably forever be my #1 go-to software when it comes to 3D renders (and I'll sell a few of my organs to pay for 12.0, if it ever happens to be released ), but I just need a breath of fresh air. It's been 3 years since the last time we got any new features, and with a single dev it most likely will be another couple of years until we get anything new. Technology keeps moving forward, and while my current workflow works just fine with the tools we have now, I don't want to just rinse and repeat. I want to experiment, adapt my workflow to new features, re-imagine my possibilities.
And Ken's post just sounds like, woah, iClone by now could offer exactly that.
Anybody who's read my posts in the SM Poser Forum would know that I'm rather outspoken in my criticism of Poser's silence on development. I honestly don't understand it. I suppose I might if they were putting out new updates every few months, but they're not.
That said, Poser 11.1 did include a few new things. They just happened to all be centered primarily around animation which the majority of users don't use. Most people use Poser for rendering stills. Which is fine, but boring. That's why my new render Challenge focuses on people using Poser's Hair, Cloth Sims, Wind Force and Bullet Physics.
The Poser Content Directory Render Challenge...
It's not really that difficult to do. Just requires a little thinking outside of Poser's conventional box to achieve renders that look like these pics. I hope to see you enter.
For the past couple of years I have been rendering what I like to call "Frame-30-Stills". 25 Frames of crazy animation stuff to get the cloth and hair to drape the way I want it to, 5 Frames for the crazyness to settle, and then hit the render button at Frame 30.
One of my first experiments with the cloth room was catching a character in a net trap - which was a bit of a hassle (and just so much fun), because I had to drape the net around the character (having both of them almost literally jump through hoops to end up the way I wanted them to in Frame 25), then simulate the clothing against both the figure and the net and then re-drape the net so it snuggly fit around the clothing, while also allowing for some of it to poke through the holes.
(Please note, this thing is almost 5 years old and not exactly a piece of art... )
Sadly, the animation curves did absolutely nothing for me - I really don't need smooth animation, all that matters is what Frame 30 looks like.
Nah, sadly I think I've already tried most of the current features to enhance my stills. I need something new to fidget with, something to break the monotony that using Poser has become for me because of the lack of updates.
(Though I'll try to enter the challange - maybe I can squeeze some new ideas for (ab-)using dynamics out of my old brain. )
Not sure I will venture into Reallusion, certainly not in the immediate future but then I was very late to the party for Poser 11. That said I am very interested in this move and anything that brings rewards to the Hivewire team is fine in my book, they deserve the success.
Ahhhh yes, we all had to re-register when the new forum software was set up. In that case . . . perhaps I should've written Welcome Back Nathrai!
Old or not Nathrai, that's a mighty fine piece of work. I been using the Cloth Room quite a lot the past few years, and trust me when I say, I would NEVER have even thought of something like this, let alone try it. I think it looks well done.
Miss B, a question, please. Would you never have thought of something like that, period? Or because you didn't know if you could do it?
I just don't think I would've thought of doing a scene like the one Nathrai did, so wouldn't have thought of trying to attempt a simulation of a net around a character so that it looks like she/he/it is hanging from the ceiling, or whatever.
Sorry I have been absent for the last few days. I am slowly recovering from a surgery and I can't stay long on a computer. It may be weeks until I can be back in to regular activity.
I am not sure, but I can try. Chances are that anything can be imported. My doubt would be if I can preserve all the morphs from CC3 to iClone. It seems like I can, but I am still learning that part.
iClone supports quadrupeds, but CC3 doesn't at the moment. Like it was said above, we can still get them imported with 3DXChange, which is the more labor-intensive way. CC3 has greatly simplified the task, but for now it's only for bipeds. Below is a recent animation I did with Dawn and one of the many horses available for iClone.
We can import to iClone any characters we put together in DS. I have also being importing from Poser, but it's not the conventional way, and we still need DS to create a valid FBX export file. From my personal experience, I was able to import from both Poser and DS, but officially, only DS is supported.
In many aspects, iClone is very similar to Poser/DS, and it's used for the very same things: rendering either still or animations. Although Poser/DS support dynamics, iClone makes more effective use if it. For example, if we rig hair or cloth meshes with bones, we can have them animated in real-time in iClone - but not in Poser/DS. In Poser, the Bullet engine capabilities are there, but are not fully implemented. In DS we have a new physics engine, but it doesn't work with bones. In the iClone animation above, I have used physics to animate the hair, the horse tail and Dawn's breasts. This last one uses Spring Dynamics, which is absent in Poser/DS.
As for your question about iClone replacing Poser/DS, I am not sure. I use them together. I use Poser/DS for still renders, and iClone for animations because it's better for that. Nonetheless, I have already posted still renders created in iClone as well, so I guess it depends. One of the new features coming up for iClone is support for I-ray, so at that point it might be impossible to tell what program was used to render the image. CC3 already supports I-ray right now.
One major difference between iClone and Poser/DS is that CC3 is used to apply all the body morphs to the characters, and then we export them to iClone to create scenes, animate and render. In Poser/DS, morphs are available at any point. Maybe Reallusion will integrate CC with iClone, but right now those things are separate. We can still send characters back to edit in CC3 from iClone, but it's important to know that these things are done in different programs. This only refers to character morphs. Clothing, materials, poses and expressions can be edited directly in iClone.
SMS was posting regular [monthly] updates while Chuck Taylor was the product manager, and then the dev team was disbanded. Development was halted for a while, until a new team was put together in Europe, now with Rafael Torres as the new product manager. That went on for a short while, and then SMS went silent again. About a year later, there were rumors that Torres was no longer the product manager, but SMS kept silent, which generated a lot of speculation about what was happening to Poser. Only more recently it became known that there was no active team working on Poser, but a while later a new product manager came up and development has started again. We now have a dedicated [read-only] development thread at SMS, which is claimed to be updated every month.
So yes, it has been convoluted, but Poser is NOT dead. I believe the major reason for SMS's prolonged silence was because of the way the company is internally organized, where information about the next version cannot be disclosed to anyone until the last moment. It has always been like that with SMS, but with Reallusion it's the opposite. They publicly publish a timeline of the upcoming features organized monthly, so we always know what to expect. For example, it's already known that iClone will support I-ray in one of the coming updates. I like this became it keep me coming back for more.
Sorry to hear this Ken. Here's hoping for a speedy recovery.
Thanks, Miss B! I won't be able to stay on a computer for long in my current state, but it's just a matter of time now. Probably a few weeks.
Well take it easy, and heal fast.
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