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Getting used to new habits for Coronavirus....
- Thread starter Roberta
- Start date
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- contagion coronavirus
Hornet3d
Wise
Thank you we did have fun. Apparently the reclosed all the restaurants here so we had to take them to my son's house to eat.
Hornet3d
Wise
We opened the pubs here in the UK last weekend and a few had to shut within days due to cases of the virus. The government is actually giving some members of the public vouchers against the cost of food from restaurants and takeaways for three days is August I think because, although the places are open the demand is very low.
robert952
Brilliant
The issue with a lot of locally owned restaurants and retail outlets is still a big worry. I tended to the local services when possible. A couple seem to be hanging in (a couple of our fav local eateries, my auto mechanic). My son had to get tested because a co-worker may have been exposed to someone else who got it from a family member. Fortunately, he tested negative. People still don't seem to take this seriously until they catch it themselves. The news said there was a group who got together just to see if any of them came down with the virus...some did.
Oh well. Proof again, individuals are smart. Groups of people not so much. (I have a t-shirt that says: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in a large groups. )
Oh well. Proof again, individuals are smart. Groups of people not so much. (I have a t-shirt that says: Never underestimate the power of stupid people in a large groups. )
Hornet3d
Wise
We clearly have not seen the full impact of the virus yet and it will be some time before we do. We still do not know if there will be a second wave in the coming months as we hit the flu season and it looks as though some countries will not have a second wave only because they will still in the middle of the first.
Those that have lost families and friends will be impacted but there are signs that those who survived their brush with the virus will have on going mental and health problems. Many of the shops will not reopen, not just the small ones, some of the big ones as well. John Lewis and Boots who are big names in the UK have already stated they will not be reopening some of their stores but many would have closed anyway because they were just not making enough profit. Covid 19 has brought forward their demise rather the creating it.
When the time comes there will be a price to pay at the ballot box many countries as politicians have to answer for their actions, while other countries will struggle to survive if they are heavily reliant on oil to keep their country going. There will also be impacts that we have not yet seen or predicted all ready to hit us for six when the dust begins to settle. All of which makes me wonder why so many think that the relaxing of the lockdown and other restrictions is the beginning of the end for we have many changes heading in our direction. For the same reason it makes sense to enjoy what freedoms we have while they are still there.
Those that have lost families and friends will be impacted but there are signs that those who survived their brush with the virus will have on going mental and health problems. Many of the shops will not reopen, not just the small ones, some of the big ones as well. John Lewis and Boots who are big names in the UK have already stated they will not be reopening some of their stores but many would have closed anyway because they were just not making enough profit. Covid 19 has brought forward their demise rather the creating it.
When the time comes there will be a price to pay at the ballot box many countries as politicians have to answer for their actions, while other countries will struggle to survive if they are heavily reliant on oil to keep their country going. There will also be impacts that we have not yet seen or predicted all ready to hit us for six when the dust begins to settle. All of which makes me wonder why so many think that the relaxing of the lockdown and other restrictions is the beginning of the end for we have many changes heading in our direction. For the same reason it makes sense to enjoy what freedoms we have while they are still there.
Hornet3d
Wise
I think we were late at everything here in the UK. Late in grasping the potential danger, late into going into lockdown, late in getting PPE and in cancelling some very big National events. I think many of the deaths could be avoided and certainly the death rate appears to have been higher than in other European countries. What is clear is that the lockdown was complied with by the vast majority and we managed to flatten the curve and allowed our health service to cope. So we flattened the first wave but now we wait with baited breath.
"..for we have many changes heading in our direction"..
Now there's a trusim and I wonder if some of those changes are more about benefiting companies than customers, something that risks customers voting with their feet.
Take cash as an example, during lockdown several small local cornershop type retailers refused to give change from notes. Citing "bio security".
But they would take coins. Stating the "leftover" would be given to charity. Like anyone believed that, and now other shops are open again, people remembered that and now one of these shops has closed.
Large retailers can take cash, but I suspect they choose not because it's cheaper not to handle cash. Not everyone has a card and it means no "oh I'll just grab this" purchases. So Mr & Mrs Big Buy loses those customers, just as they need sales!
Another big bug-bear is making customers use online support. Takes someone 15-20 minutes to type out something that could be resolved in a 1 minute voice. Yet the companies say they are short staffed and queries will take longer!
Yes that "make the customer wait" approach might work in German discount stores, but not online. It's frustrating and again I suspect over time customers will switch to supporting stores, banks, services that support them.
Now there's a trusim and I wonder if some of those changes are more about benefiting companies than customers, something that risks customers voting with their feet.
Take cash as an example, during lockdown several small local cornershop type retailers refused to give change from notes. Citing "bio security".
But they would take coins. Stating the "leftover" would be given to charity. Like anyone believed that, and now other shops are open again, people remembered that and now one of these shops has closed.
Large retailers can take cash, but I suspect they choose not because it's cheaper not to handle cash. Not everyone has a card and it means no "oh I'll just grab this" purchases. So Mr & Mrs Big Buy loses those customers, just as they need sales!
Another big bug-bear is making customers use online support. Takes someone 15-20 minutes to type out something that could be resolved in a 1 minute voice. Yet the companies say they are short staffed and queries will take longer!
Yes that "make the customer wait" approach might work in German discount stores, but not online. It's frustrating and again I suspect over time customers will switch to supporting stores, banks, services that support them.
Hornet3d
Wise
I have had a couple of instances like this. My computer company refused to honour my the contract I paid for to give on site repair when my computer failed, I can accept that but how about a refund for the service I paid for that they are not providing. I know Covid is not their fault but it is not mine either and they saved the cost of sending a technician out. Then there is the delivery company that delivered my package to the wrong house and had shut down it's customer support telephone line but you could chat on line, eventually. I joined the queue at number 33 so not only had they shut down the their phone line but their other support services were denuded of people as well and that for a service that could be provided by a team working from home.
Here in the UK the Prime Minister is suggesting we could be back to normal by Christmas, now I under stand the optimism but normal? It is like throwing a pack of cards into the air and expecting them to land in a nice sorted pile.......good luck with that.
Sorry, I seem to have written a War and Peace novel ...
Returning to normal anytime soon (or even by Christmas) is a pipe dream. Those who think/say that are deluded at best. More likely, it's political spinning or /gasp ... deliberate misinformation.
A pandemic doesn't go away until a large percent of the population have been sick and recovered or died or have been inoculated against the virus.
With SARS, which is caused by the SARS-CoV virus, people were generally not infectious until a week after becoming sick, they became sick quickly and obviously, and they were easily identified and quarantined. COVID-19 is caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which is closely related to the SARS-CoV virus. However, unlike SARS, people infected by COVID-19 are contagious days before any symptoms appear. As many as 50% may never experience a fever or any other symptoms. This makes it difficult to isolate infected people. Temperature checks, which many businesses have implemented, aren't very effective when people are contagious before they ever have a fever or they never develop a fever.
All this makes it essential we wear masks when among those we don't live with, wash hands frequently, limit exposure to others, and do social distancing for another year or more. At least ... until a safe and effective vaccine is widely available and most of the population has been vaccinated.
Contact tracing is proving to be difficult here and elsewhere because people either don't know who they came in contact with (block/beach parties for example) or are not cooperative. Testing in my area still mostly requires we be referred by a doctor and have symptoms or know we have been exposed. If the test is positive, it's taking 7 days or more to get results from two national labs, which do about a quarter of the tests in Philadelphia.
How this all has and will play out is right there in the history books. All anyone has to do is read about the 2018 Pandemic ... specifically how cities like Philadelphia responded to (or ignored) the Pandemic once it hit the city. Rather than cancel the Liberty Loan Parade as other cities did, Philadelphia held it .. a week after 600 sailors had become ill with the H1N1 virus. How shocking that Philadelphia was one of the hardest hit cities in the US.
The parallels between the 1918 pandemic and the COVID-19 pandemic are scarily similar. Especially, as we should know better this time around and countries, including the US, have been preparing for decades for another devastating pandemic ... but still ... the same mistakes are being made.
CDC timeline of the 1918 Pandemic
By December 2020, one third of the world's population had been infected. As of March 2020, the world population is estimated to be 7.8 billion people. Currently over 14.2 million people worldwide have been diagnosed with COVID-19. Without a vaccine, one third of the world's population, or 2.6 million people, could be expected to be infected before the Pandemic would end.
With no vaccine to protect against influenza infection and no antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial infections, control efforts worldwide were limited to non-pharmaceutical interventions such as isolation, quarantine, good personal hygiene, use of disinfectants, and limitations of public gatherings, which were applied unevenly. Just as we have seen with COVID-19.
Interestingly enough, the United States led the world in mask wearing with the 1918 pandemic. San Francisco passed the Influenza Mask Ordinance in October 1918 which mandated the wearing of masks when outdoors. Other cities and states followed suit, with the result that being found outdoors without a mask could result in a fine up to $100 or imprisonment.
We now have antibiotics to treat the secondary bacterial infections, but just like the 1918 H1N1, COVID-19 is highly infectious. We may or may not have a vaccine by December or January (more likely later than that), but it would take months before enough of the population is vaccinated. That is ... if enough people get vaccinated. If someone refuses to wear a mask or to practice social distancing ... would they be willing to be vaccinated? Then there are those who mistrust any vaccine, and even more who mistrust that a vaccine rushed through development and testing will be safe.
1918 Pandemic Influenza Historic Timeline
Philadelphia didn't cancel a parade during a 1918 pandemic
How did the Spanish flu pandemic end and what lessons can we learn from a century ago?
In the 1918 flu pandemic, not wearing a mask was illegal in some parts of America. What changed?
Returning to normal anytime soon (or even by Christmas) is a pipe dream. Those who think/say that are deluded at best. More likely, it's political spinning or /gasp ... deliberate misinformation.
A pandemic doesn't go away until a large percent of the population have been sick and recovered or died or have been inoculated against the virus.
With SARS, which is caused by the SARS-CoV virus, people were generally not infectious until a week after becoming sick, they became sick quickly and obviously, and they were easily identified and quarantined. COVID-19 is caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which is closely related to the SARS-CoV virus. However, unlike SARS, people infected by COVID-19 are contagious days before any symptoms appear. As many as 50% may never experience a fever or any other symptoms. This makes it difficult to isolate infected people. Temperature checks, which many businesses have implemented, aren't very effective when people are contagious before they ever have a fever or they never develop a fever.
All this makes it essential we wear masks when among those we don't live with, wash hands frequently, limit exposure to others, and do social distancing for another year or more. At least ... until a safe and effective vaccine is widely available and most of the population has been vaccinated.
Contact tracing is proving to be difficult here and elsewhere because people either don't know who they came in contact with (block/beach parties for example) or are not cooperative. Testing in my area still mostly requires we be referred by a doctor and have symptoms or know we have been exposed. If the test is positive, it's taking 7 days or more to get results from two national labs, which do about a quarter of the tests in Philadelphia.
How this all has and will play out is right there in the history books. All anyone has to do is read about the 2018 Pandemic ... specifically how cities like Philadelphia responded to (or ignored) the Pandemic once it hit the city. Rather than cancel the Liberty Loan Parade as other cities did, Philadelphia held it .. a week after 600 sailors had become ill with the H1N1 virus. How shocking that Philadelphia was one of the hardest hit cities in the US.
The parallels between the 1918 pandemic and the COVID-19 pandemic are scarily similar. Especially, as we should know better this time around and countries, including the US, have been preparing for decades for another devastating pandemic ... but still ... the same mistakes are being made.
CDC timeline of the 1918 Pandemic
- March 1918 - The first outbreak detected in the US
The outbreak in Spain in May 1918 resulted in the flu being named the Spanish Flu. Because of Spain's neutrality in WWI, the journalism coverage of the H1N1 outbreak was more extensive. Reports and coverage of the outbreaks in the US and other countries were discouraged. It wasn't until decades later that the public learned the first outbreak was months before in the US.
- September 1918 - The second wave hit Boston. Between September and November, the second wave, which was highly fatal, peaked in the United States. The second wave was responsible for most of the deaths attributed to the pandemic.
November 1918 was the end of WWI, which resulted in Armistice Day celebrations and soldiers coming home.
- Winter and Spring 1919 - A third wave occurred, killing many more. Third wave subsides in the summer.
- While the CDC timeline doesn't note the end of the Pandemic, other sources note December 2020 is recognized as the end of the Pandemic.
By December 2020, one third of the world's population had been infected. As of March 2020, the world population is estimated to be 7.8 billion people. Currently over 14.2 million people worldwide have been diagnosed with COVID-19. Without a vaccine, one third of the world's population, or 2.6 million people, could be expected to be infected before the Pandemic would end.
With no vaccine to protect against influenza infection and no antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial infections, control efforts worldwide were limited to non-pharmaceutical interventions such as isolation, quarantine, good personal hygiene, use of disinfectants, and limitations of public gatherings, which were applied unevenly. Just as we have seen with COVID-19.
Interestingly enough, the United States led the world in mask wearing with the 1918 pandemic. San Francisco passed the Influenza Mask Ordinance in October 1918 which mandated the wearing of masks when outdoors. Other cities and states followed suit, with the result that being found outdoors without a mask could result in a fine up to $100 or imprisonment.
We now have antibiotics to treat the secondary bacterial infections, but just like the 1918 H1N1, COVID-19 is highly infectious. We may or may not have a vaccine by December or January (more likely later than that), but it would take months before enough of the population is vaccinated. That is ... if enough people get vaccinated. If someone refuses to wear a mask or to practice social distancing ... would they be willing to be vaccinated? Then there are those who mistrust any vaccine, and even more who mistrust that a vaccine rushed through development and testing will be safe.
1918 Pandemic Influenza Historic Timeline
Philadelphia didn't cancel a parade during a 1918 pandemic
How did the Spanish flu pandemic end and what lessons can we learn from a century ago?
In the 1918 flu pandemic, not wearing a mask was illegal in some parts of America. What changed?
That may prove to be quite a thing. In the Netherlands scientists working on this have discovered that with patients who healed from covid-19, the anti-bodies dissapear from the blood faster then expected. They estimate that a vaccin could take some time and even after that the production and distribution worldwide might take up to a year to complete.
Hornet3d
Wise
Today was my first visit to the doctor's surgery since the lock down as I was overdue a diabetic review and they had just started performing then again. A very strange experience to be sure, you cannot go to reception unless you are masked and have an appointment and only then no more than five minutes before the appointment. The surgery is shut to almost all other patients so not many people there and you can sit in the waiting area but only if there is not more than seven other people already there. Nurse is obviously masked and you need to use hand gel as you move from room to room. The review it self is a very trimmed down version with no checking of circulation in your feet so it is just checking question of weight check, blood pressure check and taking blood. The second part of the review has also changed with no face to face just a telephone call and even then the first appointment free was 25th August.
All in all no real trauma but seeing the changes they have had to make brings home just how deadly this virus is. More horrifying though is the fact I have put on a stone since lockdown started.
All in all no real trauma but seeing the changes they have had to make brings home just how deadly this virus is. More horrifying though is the fact I have put on a stone since lockdown started.
They don't allow you to wear vinyl gloves? I always have a pair with me when I'm out of the house. In fact, when I had my annual appointment with the cardiologist three weeks ago, I had several pairs with me, because I knew I'd be there for quite a while, and would have to use the Rest Room when I first got there, and again at some point during the testing, and then again before I left to go home. My cardiologist has you go through several tests, so I'm usually there for a few hours. I came prepared to remove and replace the gloves with each visit to the Rest Room, just in case.
Yikes Hornet!
I'm so sorry I actually lost weight, and a stone (aka 14 pounds) of that must have transferred to you! I won't take it back, because it's such a struggle for me to lose ANY weight. But it's quite ok with me if you want to regift the stone to someone who needs a stone or two.
I had my first in person doctor appointment Friday. I was the only patient in the waiting room until someone came in to pay a bill. Rather surprising some people still pay in person during the pandemic instead of through their bank's bill pay or by mailing a check.
There was a table with a bottle of hand sanitizer placed in front of the waiting room check-in window to ensure distance between the receptionist and the patient checking in, and a Plexiglas partition was added to the counter where you pay or schedule the next visit.
All the staff wore masks, as both NJ and PA require, and the nurse took my temperature in the waiting room before we went back to the exam room. But the exam was the same as always. The nurse stood near me to weigh me and when she took my blood pressure (she'd rather have to), and the doctor stood close to me when he listened to my heart and lungs and all that (again ... he'd rather have to).
I wasn't required to wait in my car if I'd arrived early before my scheduled appointment time, but I would have anyway. Although, since no one else was in the waiting room, it wouldn't have made much different. My doctor has never overbooked, but it's clear he is scheduling fewer appointments at the same time, as all exam rooms were open when I went back. There had been one person scheduled before me who left before I went back. I was surprised when they told me the copay was waived ... which was great. Because it's $30, and I only had a $20 on me. I normally visit the ATM every few months and withdraw $100, but I've not gone to an ATM since January or so. With not going out, I didn't realize I was down to my last $20.
I'm so sorry
I actually lost weight, and a stone (aka 14 pounds) of that must have transferred to you! I won't take it back, because it's such a struggle for me to lose ANY weight. But it's quite ok with me if you want to regift the stone to someone who needs a stone or two.I had my first in person doctor appointment Friday. I was the only patient in the waiting room until someone came in to pay a bill. Rather surprising some people still pay in person during the pandemic instead of through their bank's bill pay or by mailing a check.
There was a table with a bottle of hand sanitizer placed in front of the waiting room check-in window to ensure distance between the receptionist and the patient checking in, and a Plexiglas partition was added to the counter where you pay or schedule the next visit.
All the staff wore masks, as both NJ and PA require, and the nurse took my temperature in the waiting room before we went back to the exam room. But the exam was the same as always. The nurse stood near me to weigh me and when she took my blood pressure (she'd rather have to), and the doctor stood close to me when he listened to my heart and lungs and all that (again ... he'd rather have to).
I wasn't required to wait in my car if I'd arrived early before my scheduled appointment time, but I would have anyway. Although, since no one else was in the waiting room, it wouldn't have made much different. My doctor has never overbooked, but it's clear he is scheduling fewer appointments at the same time, as all exam rooms were open when I went back. There had been one person scheduled before me who left before I went back. I was surprised when they told me the copay was waived ... which was great. Because it's $30, and I only had a $20 on me. I normally visit the ATM every few months and withdraw $100, but I've not gone to an ATM since January or so. With not going out, I didn't realize I was down to my last $20.
Wearing gloves is suggested for the general public only when you don't have access to soap and water or a safe hand sanitizer. Even then, people should be aware disposable gloves are only effective if you don't touch your face while wearing them, prevent your clothing (and cell phone) from coming in contact with the gloves, remove them properly, and dispose of the gloves properly in the trash.
Soap and water is preferred over a hand sanitizer. The FDA has been issuing recalls on more brands of hand sanitizers labeled as containing ethanol/ethyl alcohol when they actually contain methanol/wood alcohol which is toxic and absorbed through the skin.
It's so disheartening how many companies are willing to harm people for a profit.
I keep debating whether to purchase disposable gloves when we're required to return to work. While I'm not entirely sure CDC advice is sufficiently cautious, gloves are recommended when cleaning and disinfecting your home or caring for a someone sick, but not when running errands. So, I'll probably skip the gloves and follow hand washing and hand sanitizer recommendations. Especially, when I'm in businesses I trust to be following required cleaning/disinfecting of surfaces.
Funny that being a bit of a germaphobe, I don't have disposable gloves at home ...
Soap and water is preferred over a hand sanitizer. The FDA has been issuing recalls on more brands of hand sanitizers labeled as containing ethanol/ethyl alcohol when they actually contain methanol/wood alcohol which is toxic and absorbed through the skin.
It's so disheartening how many companies are willing to harm people for a profit.
I keep debating whether to purchase disposable gloves when we're required to return to work. While I'm not entirely sure CDC advice is sufficiently cautious, gloves are recommended when cleaning and disinfecting your home or caring for a someone sick, but not when running errands. So, I'll probably skip the gloves and follow hand washing and hand sanitizer recommendations. Especially, when I'm in businesses I trust to be following required cleaning/disinfecting of surfaces.
Funny that being a bit of a germaphobe, I don't have disposable gloves at home ...
I'm not particularly fond of hand sanitizers, and much prefer soap and water. I'm very careful not to touch my face, cellphone or clothing while wearing them, and I put them in the trash as soon as I take them off, and immediately wash my hands with soap and water. I'm not crazy about vinyl gloves this time of year either, as my hands get very sweaty, but I'd prefer them to touching anything in any of the stores I visit, and certainly anything in any of my doctors' offices.
So far I've only had two doctor visits, the first to my Ophthalmologist in June, and the second to my Cardiologist, but I noticed both have scheduled fewer patients than usual. There was only one other person in my Ophthalmologist's waiting room, which was good, as his waiting room isn't overly large. My Cardiologist's waiting room is large, and there was only 3 other patients there when I arrived, and there was plenty of room for us to sit far away from each other.
Hornet3d
Wise
I was wearing gloves during my visit to the doctor today but they still insisted I use the hand sanitiser. I was using such gloves long before lock down as I keep a couple of boxes around for when I am doing DIY. It is much easier to take the gloves off and throw them away than try and wash paint and the like of of your hands and I also use them when cleaning the filter in the pond, with my stomach I just can't take any risks.