Discussion about content

[AnimaGemini]

But back to the topic, Poser content.
In my POV , Poser stores lack of a few important things.
1. Really good promos.
Promos are important, but somehow many vendors just ignore it. When I look at some Poser promos, with stretched textures , Hair poke trough , default Poser light, this did not convince me to buy.
2. Like over Renderosity discussion, really good textures for character. This is badly missing. While on Genesis Character there are incredible details, Poser character are left clean, blank. No proper SSS map, no correct Bump, and no Normal, roughness. The character look mostly lifeless , like dolls.
This bugs me since a while, this is why I decided to make my own character and take courses. (Still a long way in front of me LOL)
I just don't like how most of the character react to light. To glossy , flat ,dull. They all have one in common. 1 base texture and a converted B&W map, which is used for all slots. Often the base texture is even blurred to remove "blemishes" or bigger pores.
I think this is sad. There are so many great morphs out there, but the textures take away all the good look.

I really hope Dawn 2 will receive the love which she deserves. And vendors will give her great textures.

 

[CWRW]

I don't know what to call it. Just earlier this week I was trying to find a solution for a complicated part of the Scatter Tool for Poser 12, and then I woke up the next day with an idea I dreamt about. I went to the computer, entered the idea I had dreamed about, and it worked! Solved a complicated part of it. I wish it could always be like that - go to sleep and wake up with the answer in my head, Is that what they call "sleep over it"?

I do that all the time/have for most of my life- both for content creation and for creating artwork. My best ideas and probem solving happen in that "twilight zone" when one is a little awake but not really

 

[Ken1171]

1. Really good promos.
Promos are important, but somehow many vendors just ignore it. When I look at some Poser promos, with stretched textures , Hair poke trough , default Poser light, this did not convince me to buy.

Maybe it's not that people don't care for promos, but there is a chance not everyone is good on making them. They did their best, and it's not good enough. Personally, I "don't love" making promos, but I have to do them. I take a deep breath, pinch my nose and do it because I have to. I have to have a different state of mind that is very different from the FUN I have when doing personal renders. On top of that, this is the only kind of render I never get any feedback from, which doesn't help improving. There are countless courses for how to do pretty renders, but not as many to how to produce a buying-spree-inducing madness on people. So much that I don't even think it is the vendors who do the promos at DAZ. They look too uniform to be made by completely different people. But I could be wrong.

2. Like over Renderosity discussion, really good textures for character. This is badly missing.

I agree, good character textures are hard to come by. Pretty doesn't mean good. What I miss the most in those are decent bump and specular/roughness maps. What we usually get are greyscale versions of the diffuse map, which gives that generic bland look. Skin has no detail, lips look plastic-flat, and specular is uniform across the body. Personally, I have no idea how to create proper specular/roughness maps. I think most people don't either.

I really hope Dawn 2 will receive the love which she deserves. And vendors will give her great textures.

I believe Dawn 2's new materials are already done. Chris has shown them here in the dev forums last year.

I do that all the time/have for most of my life- both for content creation and for creating artwork. My best ideas and probem solving happen in that "twilight zone" when one is a little awake but not really

Wow you are so lucky. Sometimes I try to concentrate on the problem before falling asleep, but that works totally random. Or worse, I forget what it was the minute I wake up! And then I go "Nooooooooooooooo, I just had it!!!". LOL

 

[Rae134]

Maybe it's not that people don't care for promos, but there is a chance not everyone is good on making them. They did their best, and it's not good enough. Personally, I "don't love" making promos, but I have to do them. I take a deep breath, pinch my nose and do it because I have to. I have to have a different state of mind that is very different from the FUN I have when doing personal renders. On top of that, this is the only kind of render I never get any feedback from, which doesn't help improving. There are countless courses for how to do pretty renders, but not as many to how to produce a buying-spree-inducing madness on people. So much that I don't even think it is the vendors who do the promos at DAZ. They look too uniform to be made by completely different people. But I could be wrong.

I agree, Promo art is much different to artistic renders or personal art.

I think (don't know for sure) that DAZ does have some in house artists but I do know that vendors can supply their own art (or art they have commissioned from others) because I did some for AMs Vampire Bat, House Fly and Platypus.

 

[Aelin]

I find it's always harder to do promo renders for yourself than for others. Generally, ideas escape from my mind when I start the scenes for promos
I agree concerning the uniformity of renders for promotional images at Daz. Or maybe they have a "book" with rules for vendors do like that and not differently?
For my part, I started 3d world with DS3, just before DS4 was launched. Today, I always use mainly DS3 on my main computer. But since years, I have also Poser 10 (gosh, my fingers where writing Poser 100 ) and Poser 11. With the change of owner, I'm back to Poser 10. But it's on my comp which had issues, the other one being 'limit' to play with Poser. I don't talk of DS4.
So I use mainly the old generation 4 and some toons in DS3. I really wish I can play more often with Poser. Since my move in November it's not yet done, but maybe sooner, I hope. I always wanted to do more renders with Dawn, and Dusk too. So now that I have also Baby Luna, I'm eager for that family. And finally playing with the animals too.
But even before I had to split between 2 comps, when I saw a product or freebie available in Poser and Daz versions I have always choosen the Poser version.

I was interested to play with LaFemme too when she was in the Poser 11.2, but in fact I found she wasn't easy to use.

Concerning Dawn and her birth, I remember I saw the talks about her by luck on Rendo forums. And saw she was well for Poser and Daz. I don't understand than people didn't even tried to play with the first Dawn version, just to see if she worked in their programs or not. If it's free and have a minimum of interest for me, I try it as soon as I can. If it's working, great for me and it didn't cost money for nothing. And it's faster than read the pro and cons on a thread.

I heard just a little of rumors about the former RDNA vendors on Daz. Sad to see how that turned. And it's specially a little silly to act like that, because vendors aren't possible customers too? It's shooting a bullet in your foot.
And yep, there when I'm looking for a product, it's for one with Poser format. When they no more will have interesting products to my eyes, well what can I add?

 

[Ken1171]

Concerning Dawn and her birth, I remember I saw the talks about her by luck on Rendo forums. And saw she was well for Poser and Daz. I don't understand than people didn't even tried to play with the first Dawn version, just to see if she worked in their programs or not.

Mysterious rumors have circulated around some forums, telling people that Dawn was "unusable", and that people should NOT use her at all. Now you know how obedient people are, and the power of rumors. Apparently, they believe anything they are told.

 

[Hornet3d]

Mysterious rumors have circulated around some forums, telling people that Dawn was "unusable", and that people should NOT use her at all. Now you know how obedient people are, and the power of rumors. Apparently, they believe anything they are told.

I think it is a mixture of people not wanting to look any further and just accept what they read or are happy to accept something because it confirms their already held beliefs. Let's face it anyone interested in using Dawn does not have to look very far to find examples of the figure being used both in DS and Poser to good effect.

 

[Ken1171]

I think it is a mixture of people not wanting to look any further and just accept what they read or are happy to accept something because it confirms their already held beliefs. Let's face it anyone interested in using Dawn does not have to look very far to find examples of the figure being used both in DS and Poser to good effect.

That's what I thought - at first. The catch was when I realized people's opinion of Dawn were very uniform, using the very same words, like being repeated from the same source. That was not random. And what's most, these were opinions from people who admittedly never had Dawn in their runtimes - they had never even seen her. When people who have never seen something have the same opinion about it, using the same words, that doesn't happen by chance.

Just last week I have heard people lamenting that Dawn was Poser-only. Really? After 7 years???

 

[eclark1894]

Mysterious rumors have circulated around some forums, telling people that Dawn was "unusable", and that people should NOT use her at all. Now you know how obedient people are, and the power of rumors. Apparently, they believe anything they are told.

You mean like La Femme being difficult to use? I didn't jump on Dawn when she first appeared simply because I was still using and creating for Roxie and Miki 4. So it took me a while to move over to Dawn. Regarding how rumors can sink a figure though, I remember the controversy around Sixus 1's Scarlett.

 

[Hornet3d]

That's what I thought - at first. The catch was when I realized people's opinion of Dawn were very uniform, using the very same words, like being repeated from the same source. That was not random. And what's most, these were opinions from people who admittedly never had Dawn in their runtimes - they had never even seen her. When people who have never seen something have the same opinion about it, using the same words, that doesn't happen by chance.

Just last week I have heard people lamenting that Dawn was Poser-only. Really? After 7 years???

Before Dawn was even launched there were people with what would normally be called a hidden agenda except that, in this case, the motive was fairly obvious that were out to trash Dawn. The main motive appeared to be they wanted to see Poser die, after all they had been predicting it's demise for years. A new figure that worked in both Poser and DS was something they were very much against if only just on principle. Many did not use Poser and even less I suspect ever tried Dawn.

It does amaze me that there are still people that not only spout this nonsense and even more so many believe it. I guess we are in the world of alternative facts but sadly many have missed out on some real fun due to either laziness or misguided belief.

 

[Hornet3d]

You mean like La Femme being difficult to use? I didn't jump on Dawn when she first appeared simply because I was still using and creating for Roxie and Miki 4. So it took me a while to move over to Dawn. Regarding how rumors can sink a figure though, I remember the controversy around Sixus 1's Scarlett.

I never switched to Dawn originally but the point was I tried the original figure I found it lacking in morphs and a few other areas. I said as much in forums at the time giving reasons why I was not switching. I finally moved over just after the launch of Dawn SE and I have been using the figure as my go to figure ever since. I even purchased and used Scarlett and used the figure, in fact I still do on odd occasions, I remember the controversy and, in particular the very personal nature of some of the posts. I remember it clearly as it was one of the reasons I left some forums at the time.

 

[Ken1171]

You mean like La Femme being difficult to use? I didn't jump on Dawn when she first appeared simply because I was still using and creating for Roxie and Miki 4. So it took me a while to move over to Dawn. Regarding how rumors can sink a figure though, I remember the controversy around Sixus 1's Scarlett.

I didn't know LF was hard to use, but I have heard someone telling me that today. Different? Yes, but hard? I don't know. Didn't seem hard to me, and I don't even use the figure. I love her rigging in some aspects, but have issues with the topology - it's not for me. What happen to Sixus1's Scarlett? I don't know that figure.

A new figure that worked in both Poser and DS was something they were very much against if only just on principle.

I remember Chris mentioning something like DAZ tried to sue him for stealing figures from them, just to find out that he has created Dawn from scratch, so the accusations were empty. There was nothing in Dawn that DAZ could claim ownership.

I never switched to Dawn originally but the point was I tried the original figure I found it lacking in morphs and a few other areas. I said as much in forums at the time giving reasons why I was not switching. I finally moved over just after the launch of Dawn SE and I have been using the figure as my go to figure ever since. I even purchased and used Scarlett and used the figure, in fact I still do on odd occasions, I remember the controversy and, in particular the very personal nature of some of the posts. I remember it clearly as it was one of the reasons I left some forums at the time.

That is perfectly understandable. I remember switching the Dawn original texture with one from V4, and showing renders to people - they didn't know it was Dawn and praised the render to no end. Then I told them it was Dawn, and they were speechless. And that was just by changing the textures! Talk about prejudice! LOL

 

[Rae134]

That is perfectly understandable. I remember switching the Dawn original texture with one from V4, and showing renders to people - they didn't know it was Dawn and praised the render to no end. Then I told them it was Dawn, and they were speechless. And that was just by changing the textures! Talk about prejudice! LOL

To be fair, I didn't like the original texture for Dawn as a base texture, a nice texture for a character but a bit too unique. I think a base texture needs to be...hmmm, not quite sure of the right words...bland isn't it and neither is pretty, maybe a bit girl-next-door? Plain in a pretty but unremarkable way? hopefully you get my meaning lol

Edited to Add: I think the word I was looking for might have been "Generic" lol

 

[AnimaGemini]

Mysterious rumors have circulated around some forums, telling people that Dawn was "unusable", and that people should NOT use her at all. Now you know how obedient people are, and the power of rumors. Apparently, they believe anything they are told.

Somebody very smart was once telling

When you don't see it with your own eyes
hear it with your own ears
don't invent it with your little mind
and spread it with your big mouth.

People should stick with this.
I read this gossip about her too, was disgusted and made just the opposite and try her out and liked her.

 

[AnimaGemini]

Maybe it's not that people don't care for promos, but there is a chance not everyone is good on making them. They did their best, and it's not good enough. Personally, I "don't love" making promos, but I have to do them.

It is not even that some are not good in rendering , but I see so many slugish promos with poke trough and levitating character that it really wonder me if they oversee it, or that they just don't care about and post it anyway. Both is worst. Attention to detail when you sell a product is essential. How should you convince people that your product is good when you show such fatal errors?
BTW, I hate making promos too.

 

[AnimaGemini]

I didn't know LF was hard to use, but I have heard someone telling me that today. Different? Yes, but hard? I don't know. Didn't seem hard to me, and I don't even use the figure. I love her rigging in some aspects, but have issues with the topology - it's not for me. What happen to Sixus1's Scarlett? I don't know that figure.

She is not hard really, but some things with her are difficult. Posing her hands? Good luck. Put a nice expression on her..was never successful with it.
But her rigging is really good.

 

[AnimaGemini]

To be fair, I didn't like the original texture for Dawn as a base texture, a nice texture for a character but a bit too unique. I think a base texture needs to be...hmmm, not quite sure of the right words...bland isn't it and neither is pretty, maybe a bit girl-next-door? Plain in a pretty but unremarkable way? hopefully you get my meaning lol

I agree. When she was released , short before RDNA collapse , I bought textures for her .Merchant ressource . Want to make for her a couple of unique textures. Fantasy, Sci Fi. Because she was lacking really good textures. There was something "Generic" in it. You are right.

 

[eclark1894]

I don't really listen to "critics" anymore. I remember when the movie "Beetlejuice" came out. Critics panned it. Including Siskel and Ebert, who I liked. Nut I had gone to see the movie already and I loved it. Same thing currently with Batwoman. I admit it's not the best show on TV, but it's no where near the "dumpster fire" everyone's calling it.

 

[Hornet3d]

I don't really listen to "critics" anymore. I remember when the movie "Beetlejuice" came out. Critics panned it. Including Siskel and Ebert, who I liked. Nut I had gone to see the movie already and I loved it. Same thing currently with Batwoman. I admit it's not the best show on TV, but it's no where near the "dumpster fire" everyone's calling it.

A lot of this comes about because of the sudden importance of the 'I' in any view basically such critics are saying I found such and such awful and therefore, clearly, everyone else should feel the same. It has a negative effect on the hobby but nowhere near the negative impact as it does in day to day life where it appears many feel only their view matters.

As a child I was often told it would be a sad world if everyone thought the same and liked/disliked the same things. There nearer we get to point the where communities must bow to the one view (normally spouted by the one with the biggest mouth and lowest IQ) I believe it is not only a sad world but a dangerous one as well.

 

[AnimaGemini]

A lot of this comes about because of the sudden importance of the 'I' in any view basically such critics are saying I found such and such awful and therefore, clearly, everyone else should feel the same. It has a negative effect on the hobby but nowhere near the negative impact as it does in day to day life where it appears many feel only their view matters.

As a child I was often told it would be a sad world if everyone thought the same and liked/disliked the same things. There nearer we get to point the where communities must bow to the one view (normally spouted by the one with the biggest mouth and lowest IQ) I believe it is not only a sad world but a dangerous one as well.

100% agree. Nothing brings a bunch of A......more quick together, than something which is non of their business. I stay away from gossip and I stay away from people who want to force me into their POV.