• Welcome to the Community Forums at HiveWire 3D! Please note that the user name you choose for our forum will be displayed to the public. Our store was closed as January 4, 2021. You can find HiveWire 3D and Lisa's Botanicals products, as well as many of our Contributing Artists, at Renderosity. This thread lists where many are now selling their products. Renderosity is generously putting products which were purchased at HiveWire 3D and are now sold at their store into customer accounts by gifting them. This is not an overnight process so please be patient, if you have already emailed them about this. If you have NOT emailed them, please see the 2nd post in this thread for instructions on what you need to do

Discussion about content

theschell

Brilliant
It was one of a number of very unfortunate and sad chapters in the community split and the changes that were taking place in the community... these things combined with my own health, and things with my family were the deciding factors in my closing up shop... losing my hosting was just the final straw to things that were already slowly driving me out of content creation... It's sad that we keep losing more and more of the sites that made it as great as it once was...
 

AnimaGemini

Living in the clouds
Contributing Artist
It was one of a number of very unfortunate and sad chapters in the community split and the changes that were taking place in the community... these things combined with my own health, and things with my family were the deciding factors in my closing up shop... losing my hosting was just the final straw to things that were already slowly driving me out of content creation... It's sad that we keep losing more and more of the sites that made it as great as it once was...

I hear you. I stop creating too for a few years. Lack of time, moving, no inspiration, burn out . It is sad to let go what once was your fav occupation.
But you always can come back. Begin slowly, don't put your self under pressure. Create small stuff, just for you at the beginning .Give up something you love is sad. Wish you the best.
 

theschell

Brilliant
When I first heard that part of the RDNA vendors went to Rosity instead, I was surprised. I also didn't know RDNA itself kept its own vendors in the dark about what was about to happen. There is so much I don't know because, for once, I wasn't there. At least Theschell has now confirmed in first hand what I was already told by other vendors about what happened after the buyout. DAZ has claimed to have absorbed the RDNA vendors, just to silently mass dismiss them a year later, when nobody was looking anymore. If not for the email exchanges, the ex-RDNA vendors wouldn't even know it was a mass dismissal - they thought it was just them individually. That's how much DAZ wanted to keep this under wraps. They cherry picked the best vendors and ditched the rest - very different from the official story most people heard about. It's amusing how much misinformation shows up when it comes down to DAZ.
As I understand it, in part the RDNA vendors were kept in the dark because Daz made the owners sign an NDA in regards to the buy-out as a condition of the purchase of the site... the RDNA owners were legally bound by that NDA and were forbidden to speak about the merger till it was already over and done with... at least that was my understanding of it (I wasn't privy directly to that part of things). I do know there was a lot of anger directed at both Daz and the owners of RDNA over the whole sordid mess and that there was a lot of underhanded dealing being done. Was a damned shame regardless and a needless mess created by less than upstanding and transparent dealings with what happened...
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
@Ken1171
Sad thing is that RDNA did not communicate with its vendors. But this is the past, why not focus on the future?

I believe that if we don't know the past, we are bound to repeat it in the future. Therefore knowing more about the past is the best way to focus on the future, because then we will know where we are stepping.

As I understand it, in part the RDNA vendors were kept in the dark because Daz made the owners sign an NDA in regards to the buy-out as a condition of the purchase of the site...

That is pretty much possible, but IMHO, it doesn't make it any better. It shows they had no respect for the vendors. Content stores could not exist without them, so I believe they have the right to know before anybody else. I still remember their tone of disbelief, indignation, and despair as they told me what was happening. I have been in this business for long enough to know this is NOT how things are done. When SMS closed CP, they let us know in advance. When the HW store was about to close, they let us know in advance. Therefore what RDNA/DAZ did is NOT "normal" procedure by any means I can imagine. It just represents what DAZ stands for, and it is not for their dear vendors. Those who know the past will be more prepared when it is about to repeat itself.
 

theschell

Brilliant
I believe that if we don't know the past, we are bound to repeat it in the future. Therefore knowing more about the past is the best way to focus on the future, because then we will know where we are stepping.



That is pretty much possible, but IMHO, it doesn't make it any better. It shows they had no respect for the vendors. Content stores could not exist without them, so I believe they have the right to know before anybody else. I still remember their tone of disbelief, indignation, and despair as they told me what was happening. I have been in this business for long enough to know this is NOT how things are done. When SMS closed CP, they let us know in advance. When the HW store was about to close, they let us know in advance. Therefore what RDNA/DAZ did is NOT "normal" procedure by any means I can imagine. It just represents what DAZ stands for, and it is not for their dear vendors. Those who know the past will be more prepared when it is about to repeat itself.
Exactly... which is why when they approached VP in a similar way with similar offers quite a few of us said no to everything... Fortunately Vp was up front with all of us rather than allowing Daz to push us into a corner... What Daz fails to realize is that they are not a "Publisher", they are infact a brokerage like any other... they use the "publisher" angle to justify the much higher percentage they take from sales... but it is what it is, like you I stay clear of them and had canceled my account there a couple of years back after several years of not actively participating in the forums...
 

Janet

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
I've been a Poser user since the day 5 came out. I only started using Daz Studio to make my products for it as they sell much better when there's a DS version too. I've been taking a couple classes for it and learning lots.

I've always found Renderosity to be accepting and encouraging. They took back some of my older products a couple years ago and those are doing okay there.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
but it is what it is, like you I stay clear of them and had canceled my account there a couple of years back after several years of not actively participating in the forums...

Interesting how we both had completely different histories with DAZ, and we both ended up pulling the short stick. I was never a DAZ vendor, but they still managed to put me and many other content creators out of business for years back in 2005. It's important that people should learn from the past to be better prepared for the future. If you want to be in this market, it is very likely we shall be dealing with DAZ again at some point - we have to know where we are stepping. I am still curious to how Rendo will deal with this in the foreseeable future. I am now their exclusive vendor, so whatever they do will affect me.

I've always found Renderosity to be accepting and encouraging. They took back some of my older products a couple years ago and those are doing okay there.

Thanks for sharing this, Janet. Being a small fish in a large pond, I am still kind of nervous at Rendo. I am currently beta-testing one of the brand new products I will be selling at Rendo, and I don't know what to expect. It's a little kid moving to a new school. ^^
 

Janet

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
Thanks for sharing this, Janet. Being a small fish in a large pond, I am still kind of nervous at Rendo. I am currently beta-testing one of the brand new products I will be selling at Rendo, and I don't know what to expect. It's a little kid moving to a new school. ^^
It's all good. For being a small fish in a big pond I do okay there. Be sure to look in the vendor control room under Tools > Banner Manager. Those are free banners that show up in the forums.
 

eclark1894

Visionary
I believe that if we don't know the past, we are bound to repeat it in the future. Therefore knowing more about the past is the best way to focus on the future, because then we will know where we are stepping.



That is pretty much possible, but IMHO, it doesn't make it any better. It shows they had no respect for the vendors. Content stores could not exist without them, so I believe they have the right to know before anybody else. I still remember their tone of disbelief, indignation, and despair as they told me what was happening. I have been in this business for long enough to know this is NOT how things are done. When SMS closed CP, they let us know in advance. When the HW store was about to close, they let us know in advance. Therefore what RDNA/DAZ did is NOT "normal" procedure by any means I can imagine. It just represents what DAZ stands for, and it is not for their dear vendors. Those who know the past will be more prepared when it is about to repeat itself.
I want everyone to understand I am not defending anyone nor attempting to defend anyone, however, I would like to point out that neither SMS or Hivewire (as far as I know) have sold their stores, but merely closed them. To that end, they pretty much would HAVE to tell the vendors what they are doing. I was a vendor at CP for a short while, but I decided to end vending and get out of it.
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
Rendo will ultimately need to choose between supporting Poser or supporting DS... and no, I see the conflict there as well...
Sadly, as related by Ken, if they did go that route they would starve! I go to the Poser only New Products page every day. I see maybe ONE new product there and most of it is either fantasy buildings or machinery or environment sets I have no use for. MOST of the clothing for L'Homme and La'Femme are lacking in detail so I pass on most of that too. It's a sad state!

I jumped ship from DS to Poser after years and years of saying "I hate the UI" I still do for the most part, it would be nice to have OPTIONS to change up the UI more like colorizing the UI to ones desires or having the code rewritten to change out the light and outdated clunky camera/movement control modules. I think this would help attract more new users to the program, it's very very outdated in how it looks to most folks. I mean look at all the UI's in other programs, including DS, sleek and customizable. Poser, you can customize here and there but holding on to that old UI code is going to keep things locked into a very static sort of way that will NOT attract new users! Folks are visual, if something looks outdated they may not be interested in it just for that reason and saying "tough luck" your basically saying who cares about the future of Poser! Unimesh, which is being worked on for Poser will be a good thing so that's something at least.

Truthfully I love L'Homme almost as much as I loved Genesis 8 Male so it's not that Poser is lacking good quality figures namely La'Femme, L'Homme, Duck, Dawn, Luna but it's folks wanting and willing to make stuff for them to keep the market green. BUT In My Opinion DS is robust, customizable and their figures, technically, are better in allot of ways. Realism seems to be the bottom line for allot of users, new and old. You have to REALLY work hard in Poser to achieve that. Folks want things easier, which is more pressure on the published artist but that's the game I guess!
 

CWRW

Extraordinary
HW3D Exclusive Artist
It's all good. For being a small fish in a big pond I do okay there. Be sure to look in the vendor control room under Tools > Banner Manager. Those are free banners that show up in the forums.

Hey Janet- thanks for posting the Banner Manager link- LOL i knew they had that back in the day and I did use them a lot back then, but I then got busy with HW (lol back in 2013) and I guess it moved and I couldn't find it again recently. Guess I need to make some new banners! :)
 

Janet

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
Iknowright? Took me forever to find that. I remember the old banner system too.
 

eclark1894

Visionary
Hey Janet- thanks for posting the Banner Manager link- LOL i knew they had that back in the day and I did use them a lot back then, but I then got busy with HW (lol back in 2013) and I guess it moved and I couldn't find it again recently. Guess I need to make some new banners! :)
Rendo hides a lot of stuff. I've never seen a site so hard to navigate.
 

CWRW

Extraordinary
HW3D Exclusive Artist
Iknowright? Took me forever to find that. I remember the old banner system too.
Fer sure:) Glad you found them!!! Tx!!

Yeah there are nav issues at Rendo for sure, but again given the alternatives (or lack of:), I'm happy:) May be coz I have been there so long/am largely used to them/how they do things.

I've been a Daz vendor but that was back in better days (and it was very enjoyable then; a lot of good people...) but I did leave for several reasons when I saw the "writing on the wall" there back in 2012-13.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
I want everyone to understand I am not defending anyone nor attempting to defend anyone, however, I would like to point out that neither SMS or Hivewire (as far as I know) have sold their stores, but merely closed them. To that end, they pretty much would HAVE to tell the vendors what they are doing.

Fair point. That is just to show how fragile we are as vendors in this market.

Sadly, as related by Ken, if they did go that route they would starve! I go to the Poser only New Products page every day. I see maybe ONE new product there and most of it is either fantasy buildings or machinery or environment sets I have no use for. MOST of the clothing for L'Homme and La'Femme are lacking in detail so I pass on most of that too. It's a sad state!

Looking back when DAZ started, they had barely any native contents, and DS was barely functional. But they have turned things around. Considering Rendo is quite experienced in this market, it's now their turn to try to turn it around again. If they want Poser to succeed and recover the position it once had in this market, this is something they just have to do. It's not optional.

However, DAZ had years of head start on figure creation, so they have the edge on that. LaFemme was a decent start, but she is not up to my standards with that kind of topology (or lack of). I am putting my hopes on Dawn 2.0 as the next big thing, but then it will depend if Rendo will see her as competition and fight her back. It has happened before with DawnSE. The difference is that now Rendo owns Poser, so fighting Dawn 2.0 might be suicidal at this point. The Poser community tends to be quite divided, and it cannot win like that.

I jumped ship from DS to Poser after years and years of saying "I hate the UI" I still do for the most part, it would be nice to have OPTIONS to change up the UI more like colorizing the UI to ones desires or having the code rewritten to change out the light and outdated clunky camera/movement control modules.

I would like to mention that SMS had completely revamped and modernized the Poser interface by adopting the WX framework, which is modern, modular, dockable, and customizable. And what's more - for the first time, this allows Python developers to create tools that will natively dock into Poser because WX also exists in Python. This was never possible before. There are always things that could improve, but I believe the new Poser interface is as modern as it gets. For the sake of fairness, I have heard as many complains about the Poser interface as I have for the DS one. Many hate the zBrush interface, but still use it nonetheless. I guess it's a matter of getting used to it.

Truthfully I love L'Homme almost as much as I loved Genesis 8 Male so it's not that Poser is lacking good quality figures namely La'Femme, L'Homme, Duck, Dawn, Luna but it's folks wanting and willing to make stuff for them to keep the market green. BUT In My Opinion DS is robust, customizable and their figures, technically, are better in allot of ways. Realism seems to be the bottom line for allot of users, new and old. You have to REALLY work hard in Poser to achieve that. Folks want things easier, which is more pressure on the published artist but that's the game I guess!

I believe DAZ figures used to be good in the past, up to Genesis 2, when figures were still meant for this market. Then DAZ decided to go mobile with their new Morph3D company, dedicated to creating real-time 3D avatars for the mobile market. For that, they had to convert their figures into real-time low poly game models, with sacrifices on the rigging, mesh topology, and poly count. These are no longer targeting this market anymore, and I was never Ok with that. It ended up that Morph3D didn't succeed, but for what matters, Genesis 3 and 8 were already compromised.

Some people get mad when I say that these are game models, but hey, I am a professional game developer, and I know a game model when I see one. Simple-bone rigging is primarily required in real-time game engines, as well as simplified topology and low poly meshes. It's all there, but people refuse to see it for what it is. It has been a long time these figures were no longer designed for this market, so it's not for me. I have actually predicted this would happen way before Genesis 3 was released, ditching TriAx in favor of simple-bone game engine rigging. I wrote articles warning people that DAZ would eventually turn to the gaming market because they have been trying for years (no secret).

Having participated in the design and making of Dawn 2.0 with Chris and Paul, I can see her being a proper figure for this market because, as opposed to the current DAZ figures, she was designed for us, and not some other market we have nothing to do with. Her rigging is still TriAX, and not game engine simple-bone with all of its limitations. Her topology is by the book, and her poly count was not sacrificed for the sake of some game engine we have nothing to do with. I want a figure that was designed for US and this market. For that matter, DAZ can't give us that anymore. That fate was sealed when they ditched TriAx, when their attention was turned to the real-time mobile market, and not us anymore.

Therefore, having that said, I am putting my bets on Dawn 2.0 because she was made for THIS market - for us.
 

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
However, DAZ had years of head start on figure creation, so they have the edge on that. LaFemme was a decent start, but she is not up to my standards with that kind of topology (or lack of). I am putting my hopes on Dawn 2.0 as the next big thing, but then it will depend if Rendo will see her as competition and fight her back. It has happened before with DawnSE. The difference is that now Rendo owns Poser, so fighting Dawn 2.0 might be suicidal at this point. The Poser community tends to be quite divided, and it cannot win like that.
Since Dawn SE is part of the Poser Downloads, I don't see how Rendo can consider her or Dawn2 as competition.
I would think anything getting people back into Poser would be a good thing (I know a lot of Poser uses went to DS).
And like you said, it would be suicidal for them to try and "kill off" anything that would help them with sales of Poser.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Since Dawn SE is part of the Poser Downloads, I don't see how Rendo can consider her or Dawn2 as competition.
I would think anything getting people back into Poser would be a good thing (I know a lot of Poser uses went to DS).
And like you said, it would be suicidal for them to try and "kill off" anything that would help them with sales of Poser.

I know, I am just referring to how SMS didn't want Dawn competing with Pauline in the past. I was nearly banned from the Poser forums for mentioning Dawn when somebody asked if there was another good figure out there. The admins claimed I was detracting the thread, and threatened to ban me if I mentioned Dawn again. That was coming from a company who didn't understand the importance of content for Poser, and that's the kind of attitude that came out from it.

Of course, Rendo has a completely different understanding of this market - something SMS never had. However, they have their own sponsored male and female figures, and I hope that won't get in the way. For instance, their figures have a special link at the top of the Rendo content search box, like there is no other figure in this planet. Even though Dawn and Dusk now ship with Poser, I am not sure how Rendo would feel about loosing market to a "competing figure". I have hopes they won't see it like that.

I have heard complains about LF rigging from the community, like if you drag her hand with IK, the joints explode. Personally, I had issues with her topology, where sculpting becomes impossible without subdivision. I consider Dawn 2.0 the better figure, but would that be an issue for Rosity? I hope not, but we will have to wait and see.
 

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
its prob something I'm doing wrong (because I don't really use poser and when I do its HW products) but when I, say, click on LF's leg to adjust a premade pose, it twist weirdly as nothing else is moving like the foot would with other figures (selecting the foot seems to be ok because I've had to move that to change pose for different shoes and the toes move with the foot)
 

eclark1894

Visionary
I can't honestly say I've ever used La Femme or La Homme. I'm a Dawn and Dusk user. Still, I do wonder whether the artists who make the figures for Poser even listen t what the users are saying.
 

Stezza

Dances with Bees
I've had a lot of users ask me to be a vendor but over the years from what I've seen and read it's not worth the headaches..

I'll just stay wacky so not to go crazy!

in Carrara of course :inverted: :cool:
 
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