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Dawn 2.0 Underway

Satira Capriccio

Distinguished
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I prefer the fourth option, followed by the third. Sometimes I like to do barefoot posing, and get frustrated with not being able to bend the individual toes. Especially, when I'm using a reference of a real person posed.

While my toes aren't as flexible (because I have small feet and shortish toes) as some, I am able to move and bend all ten of my wee little toes. Clearly, not to the extent I can move and bend my fingers!
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
I prefer the fourth option, followed by the third. Sometimes I like to do barefoot posing, and get frustrated with not being able to bend the individual toes. Especially, when I'm using a reference of a real person posed.
It's important to note that all of these options will NOT change the bones already placed on the foot, meaning that we will still be able to pose individual toes in ANY of the suggested layouts. None of these will add or remove posing capabilities. What Paul is asking about concerns which groups should be present in the feet. This is where I am suggesting 2, or at most 3 groups --> Foot, Metatarsal, and Toes.
 
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Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
Dawn 2.0 Face UVs are complete. This much is worth showing at least.
This seems to be compatible with Dawn's face UVs, which is a good thing. I remember discussing the possibility of cutting the ears off to give the face about 30% more UV space, but that would break backwards compatibility with DawnSE textures. Maybe because I am a content creator, I rather preserve backwards compatibility over increasing the facial UV space. As previously mentioned, this will also preserve compatibility with Texture Transformer, which is a big deal to me. :)
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
If I remember this right, the eye socket UVs from Dawn SE are in the eyes textures, right? Here they are on the face. That part is barely visible since it's behind the eyeballs, but it would be one texture incompatibility with Dawn SE.
 

Satira Capriccio

Distinguished
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I vaguely remember reading something about that in one of the many previous posts.

The eye socket geometry is a new addition to Dawn 2.0. Preciously she had no interior structure. This addition was done to make her a completely closed geometry. This will aid in her ability to have 3D printing done from her mesh, because a requirement to do so is the have a closed mesh.
 

CG Cubed

Technical Director
Staff member
HW3D Exclusive Artist
Thanks for all the feedback, I am switching from individual Metatarsals to the one Metatarsal bone (foot2), as in my images. Overall I think we can satisfy the majority of creators and users, with the third option, which would allow individual toe selection without having too many groups. 8 groups total.
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
Thanks for all the feedback, I am switching from individual Metatarsals to the one Metatarsal bone (foot2), as in my images. Overall I think we can satisfy the majority of creators and users, with the third option, which would allow individual toe selection without having too many groups. 8 groups total.
Yes, 1 metatarsal should suffice, since it will only be used to arch the foot. On a side note, Dawn's hands have a "Metacarpal" group, so it would make sense that the feet on Dawn 2.0 should have a "Metatarsal" group instead of "foot2", as a matter of naming consistency.

As a user, I would prefer 3 groups instead of 8, with no individual toe groups. I almost never pose toes, and Satira said she occasionally does that. I think most people don't bother to pose hands, even less individual toes. Posing individual toes sounds more like an exception than a rule, where the idea would be to make dedicated groups only for body parts people commonly pose the most often. Individual toes don't seem to fit that profile, and they still get in the way when trying to select the all-toes group from the viewport. Their groups become more of a nuisance than useful. Toes can still be posed the same way with dials, so nothing is lost by not adding these groups. For once, V4 didn't have these, and she was the most popular figure ever. Genesis 3 and 8 don't have them either.

As a content creator, the less groups to deal with, the better. No kind of shoes will ever use individual toe groups - on the contrary - they need to be avoided. The original Dawn already has 7 feet groups, but in all these years, I have only used 2 of them.

Based on these observations, a foot with only 3 groups would sound like an improvement to me. For those who are wondering, no individual toes posing capabilities would be lost without these groups. You can still pose each toe individually with dials. This is not about removing features, but instead about simplifying the user and content creator's experience.

Of course, this is just my personal experience with Dawn. The community is more than welcome to add theirs to this. :)
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
The eye socket geometry is a new addition to Dawn 2.0. Previously she had no interior structure. This addition was done to make her a completely closed geometry. This will aid in her ability to have 3D printing done from her mesh, because a requirement to do so is the have a closed mesh.
Ohh, that makes sense now! :D That explains why I don't remember ever seeing that UV shell, and I jumped to the conclusion that it was placed together with the eyes maps. It's hard to remember a part we never see. :)
 

Pendraia

Seasoned
Contributing Artist
After adjusting things for the foot I feel that having all the metatarsals is just not necessary. I think we can achieve the same range of motion with a foot bone, foot2 bone for the metatarsals, toes bone and then the individual toe bones. Does anyone else prefer a toes group and a single group for each toe group? I'll edit this post with some images for clarity...

Here are some group options.
Bones are the same for all options. Bones: foot, foot2, toes, bigtoe, bigtoe2, indextoe, indextoe2, indextoe3, midtoe, midtoe2, etc...

First:
Groups: 1 foot 1 Toes, 1 bigtoe, 1 indextoe, etc...
View attachment 48133


Second:
Groups: 1 foot, 1 Toes.
View attachment 48134


Third:
Groups: foot, foot2, toes, bigtoe, indextoe, midtoe, etc...
View attachment 48135



Fourth:
Groups: any of the above groups with individual groups for bigtoe, bigtoe2, indextoe, indextoe2, indextoe3, midtoe, midtoe2, midtoe3...etc
View attachment 48136
Thank you for sharing this info Paul it gives us insight into how the rigging of feet is done...
 

RAMWolff

Wolff Playing with Beez!
Contributing Artist
Hey Chris, please include a pupil indent morph so that light plays more favorably in renders. Gracias!
 
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