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AutoGroup Editor? Will it do what I need?

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
So I've been struggling with an outfit I'm making for Zan/Taji because it's a lot of trouble to group, and I'm wondering if AutoGroup Editor will do what I want (don't own it yet, but I'd happily buy it if it does). My big concern is so far I haven't been able to watch it's demo video, the link just seems to take me to a bunch of Renderosity ads.

Anyway here's the main challenge I'm having. When scaled correctly for Zan/Taji, the vest I'm working on, doesn't really sit on the Dawn skeleton at all, because the rig stays the same size. In the setup room if I bring in my vest, and then try and show Dawn to use her as a reference of where the groups should be, it always shows her as zeroed, not with the Zan morph applied.

So what I need is a way to create the groups, while looking at a non-zeroed version of Dawn. Will AutoGroup Editor do this?

If it doesn't, is there some way I can simply transfer the groups from one object to another? You see I have carefully made two versions of my vest, one that fits Zan, one that fits Dawn. If I keep them as props I can use the Dawn fit as a FBM on the original vest. But. . . to apply a full body morph to a figure the grouping must be identical. So if I can group one, then copy the groupings to the other, it should all work fine.

I may have thought up a cunning way around it (make two figures, with everything grouped to the hip, then save them out, create the morphs, and then do real grouping in Poser). But if there's an easier way to do this, I'd love to know.

Or am I going about the whole thing wrong?
 

English Bob

Adventurous
So what I need is a way to create the groups, while looking at a non-zeroed version of Dawn. Will AutoGroup Editor do this?

I haven't had it installed for a while, but from memory AGE works off the base figure geometry, so no posing or morphing is possible. You might be able to export the non-zeroed Dawn and use that as the basis.

If it doesn't, is there some way I can simply transfer the groups from one object to another?

UVMapper Pro can transfer grouping from one mesh to another, as long as they're morph compatible with each other. If I understood correctly, your vests are.

Let me know which path you want to follow - I'll install AGE anyway so I can dig around for more info. You can gather that I don't find a great deal of use for it.
 

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
Yep...what Traci said. We had that problem with stuff for Diva...it can be done in ds using use reverse source but I havent been able to find a method within Poser that allows this. You could do it in ds and then export it at Dawn size then load it in poser and use your original object to create the morph but ds does strange things with the object file.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
UVMapper Pro can transfer grouping from one mesh to another, as long as they're morph compatible with each other. If I understood correctly, your vests are.

Thanks for the info on UVMapper Pro, I'll keep that in mind. And yes, the two vests are definitely morph compatible, so this might be the way to go.

No, AGE is not going to group to Zan/Taji. It will group to Dawn, but must "fit" Dawn to do so.

Well, at least I know it's not going to do what I want now. Thanks for the info.

Yep...what Traci said. We had that problem with stuff for Diva...it can be done in ds using use reverse source but I havent been able to find a method within Poser that allows this. You could do it in ds and then export it at Dawn size then load it in poser and use your original object to create the morph but ds does strange things with the object file.

Yeah, actually I made the Dawn version partly by using that feature in DS. I thought that was going to get me a lot further than it did. The problem is that for some reason, once it's done the reverse source shape, it distorts the original shape based on the one it made for Dawn. So here's the vest before I've done anything:

And here it is after the reverse source shape. You can see how it has badly flattened in the chest area:


So I'm still working on clever way to rig this. Actually to my surprise it does rather well as a dynamic item, but not much is gained by that (actually you get some really pretty wrinkles in the back, but probably not worth it).

In the mean time, I've been refining some of the other parts of this set, waiting for inspiration to strike me on how to get the vest to work.
 

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
Thanks for the info on UVMapper Pro, I'll keep that in mind. And yes, the two vests are definitely morph compatible, so this might be the way to go.



Well, at least I know it's not going to do what I want now. Thanks for the info.



Yeah, actually I made the Dawn version partly by using that feature in DS. I thought that was going to get me a lot further than it did. The problem is that for some reason, once it's done the reverse source shape, it distorts the original shape based on the one it made for Dawn. So here's the vest before I've done anything:

And here it is after the reverse source shape. You can see how it has badly flattened in the chest area:


So I'm still working on clever way to rig this. Actually to my surprise it does rather well as a dynamic item, but not much is gained by that (actually you get some really pretty wrinkles in the back, but probably not worth it).

In the mean time, I've been refining some of the other parts of this set, waiting for inspiration to strike me on how to get the vest to work.

That's the Breast Gone morph from Dawn causing the distortion there. In Poser you could just use the morph brush to restore the vest to it's original shape.

And, no, you can't just eliminate the morph from the vest because it is in use in Zan/Taji/Diva. So, eliminating it simply means you will have 2 gaping inward facing holes when you inject the kids.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
That's the Breast Gone morph from Dawn causing the distortion there. In Poser you could just use the morph brush to restore the vest to it's original shape.

And, no, you can't just eliminate the morph from the vest because it is in use in Zan/Taji/Diva. So, eliminating it simply means you will have 2 gaping inward facing holes when you inject the kids.

Oh! Still I'll have to try that. Of course at the moment my Daz to Poser skills are failing me, so I'm for some reason just getting a figure with no geometry in Poser, but once I get all my steps back in order I think that might work.
 

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
If you load the original object and call it plDiva it should fix any distortions when dialled in. My process in ds is to reverse source and then load the original object as a morph. If you want the clothing to work with Dawn you can fix the distortions for Dawn and rerig and then reload the diva/zan object as a morph. If you call it plDiva it will automatcally load whenever Diva is dialled in...at least in Ds but I think it also doesit in poser in 11.
Traci, breast gone isn't used in Diva. She was original made using luna as a partially dialled morph and then taken into zbrush. I dont know if Napalmarsenal used it though when creating Zan. That was why the only way I could release diva was through the hive and with their permission.
The problems occur due to the huge change from a bust to the flatter chest.
 
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Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
If you load the original object and call it plDiva it should fix any distortions when dialled in. My process in ds is to reverse source and then load the original object as a morph.

Oh, I'll have to try that too. It didn't occur to me to reload the original as a morph in DS. It's a bit tricky because Zan/Tajii isn't a character with a single morph dial like Diva, but is dial spun. Obviously though Diva is the main morph used. I've been away from my computer for the last few days so I haven't had the chance to try, but I'll be working on this again today and we'll see what happens. Also I think my computer needed a restart because strange things were happening that didn't really make sense.
 

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
Traci, breast gone isn't used in Diva. She was original made using luna as a partially dialled morph and then taken into zbrush. I dont know if Napalmarsenal used it though when creating Zan. That was why the only way I could release diva was through the hive and with their permission.
The problems occur due to the huge change from a bust to the flatter chest.

Actually, I have to assume it is used in Zan/Taji because I thought I would get clever and build a set of clothing for the boys by using the Breast Gone morph in my mannequin.

ROFL, that was an unmitigated disaster of an idea!!!!!!!!!!

When I dialed in the boys, I had 2 gaping holes embedded in their chest where the breast gone morph wiped out that area.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Okay, so has anyone tried the Reverse Source Shape from Target in DS 4.9.3.166, which should I believe be the most up to date version?

I ask because I just ran an update, and now when I do the same thing I was doing above I get this result:



I also now see a bar after I use the Transfer Utility that says it's creating a projection map, which I didn't see before I updated. And now if I 'unfit' the vest from Dawn, it just goes back to the original shape, not the one that fits Dawn.

So it seems like it's not doing the Reverse Source Shape at all anymore. But. . . I only ran the update because I was having other weird issues with DS. When I would export as a .cr2 I would get a skeleton in Poser with no geometry. I thought at first I was doing something wrong, but I went back and rewatched part of Paul's video on converting clothing and noticed he was getting loading bars when he made the .cr2s which I was seeing, although I would get a phantom window in DS that wouldn't go away.

I thought updating would help, but it doesn't seem to. I may need to reinstall DS, but I thought I'd check and see if others were having any issues with this first.
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
Actually, I have to assume it is used in Zan/Taji because I thought I would get clever and build a set of clothing for the boys by using the Breast Gone morph in my mannequin.

I went in and double checked, and Zan/Taji don't use the breasts gone morph, so maybe what happened is it was trying to apply the morph anyway?
 

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
Thought I'd post this, just for info...this is Zan wearing the tshirt Glitterati made in DS. Only custom morph is the plDiva.

No problems with the breast area so it is possible to achieve by just using the custom morph for plDiva.
test.jpg
 

Gadget Girl

Extraordinary
Contributing Artist
GG...was the figure standard size or Zan size when you used it?

So I begin with the Zan morph dialed in. Then I go to the transfer utility select my source as using the current shape (not the default) for Dawn, and the default shape for my vest. I make sure to choose Reverse Source shape. Before I updated I would end up with something that still fit Zan, but was crinkled, and if I zeroed the figure would fit Dawn's base shape. Now I get something where it seems to assume that the final shape is the one I started with as if I hadn't done the Reverse Source Shape at all.

Also, just as a side not, Zan/Tajii is a bit thinner/toned than Diva, I think as I recall this was done with scaling. But something I've noticed because my vest doesn't quite fit Diva tummy.
 

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
Yes...Zan is a bit more toned. We did discuss how male muscles are different to female muscles at one time and we did look at whether it would be feasible to create a male child in time but I didn't have the time needed to get it done. Davi is still on the back burner.

That sounds like it should have worked. I'll have a look as I'm using 4.9.3.166 also, probably later today. Just waking up and we'll be going shopping in a couple of hours.
 

eclark1894

Seasoned
I don't know why I'm having such a hard time with these utility programs. It's like reading instructions for building an antimatter warp drive engine with turbothrust hyper light speed, but written in some dead alien language. Anybody know where there's a good video tutorial for Auto group Editor?
 

Janet

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
I've been looking for tutorials also. I can't figure out how to get the saved object to show up in Poser even though I'm naming it the same as an already rigged object.
 

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
I don't know why I'm having such a hard time with these utility programs. It's like reading instructions for building an antimatter warp drive engine with turbothrust hyper light speed, but written in some dead alien language. Anybody know where there's a good video tutorial for Auto group Editor?

I've been looking for tutorials also. I can't figure out how to get the saved object to show up in Poser even though I'm naming it the same as an already rigged object.

In your installed folder, there is a folder called Tutorial which includes a video tutorial by the author.
 

eclark1894

Seasoned
I can't even start the program, Tracy. I installed it like it said. Found the key and put it in like it asked. It even told me the number was valid and had been stored, then promptly asked me for the key number again, saying that the number I had was only temporary. I paid $25 dollars for a temporary key number?

If I enter the key number again, I get the same dialog with three buttons. One asks for the key number again, a loop. The other says to buy now. I thought I did. Renderosity charged me $25 dollars for a so far, worthless program. and if I hit the middle button that says okay, it just promptly shuts down.
 
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