A question about tutorials...

[James R.]

Personally, I prefer a tutorial explain to me why I'm doing something. Otherwise, it's not a tutorial, it's just a set of instructions. (Fit Bolt A into nut C, and twist.)

Yup, a set of instructions is what I want to avoid. It won't be just "Insert Tab A into Slot B".

 

[Bonnie2001]

....I’m reluctant to even approach trying this because people are so complain-y.

I see a lot of that on Youtube. Even tutorials that the majority of viewers think are good and give positive feedback often get trolls complaining and nitpicking about something.

 

[Glitterati3D]

Chances are though...by the time I get it all figured out and know how to present it, someone else will have done a tutorial on the same things...lol

Ahhhh, but that shouldn't stop you. We all know there's more than one way to skin a cat in Poser, your input could be helpful no matter how many times someone has already explained it.

I will give you one example. There's a set of tutorials, along with some programming, on JCMs at Renderosity. And the person doing the tutorials is clearly talented, intelligent and an amazing programmer. But, no matter how many times I read his tutorials and try to use his program to create a JCM, the program asks for one more body part than I know what to do with. I simply get lost in his instructions. No matter how hard I try, I just can't wrap my head around it.

It's clearly my fault I can't understand the instructions.

 

[eclark1894]

Ahhhh, but that shouldn't stop you. We all know there's more than one way to skin a cat in Poser, your input could be helpful no matter how many times someone has already explained it.

I will give you one example. There's a set of tutorials, along with some programming, on JCMs at Renderosity. And the person doing the tutorials is clearly talented, intelligent and an amazing programmer. But, no matter how many times I read his tutorials and try to use his program to create a JCM, the program asks for one more body part than I know what to do with. I simply get lost in his instructions. No matter how hard I try, I just can't wrap my head around it.

It's clearly my fault I can't understand the instructions.

I'm actually having that problem with the AutoGroup Editor you told me to buy. I couldn't make heads or tails of how to do anything, so it's basically just sitting unused on my desktop. And now, I can't even start the program because when I try it keeps telling me my key has expired. Why would my key expire?

 

[Glitterati3D]

I'm actually having that problem with the AutoGroup Editor you told me to buy. I couldn't make heads or tails of how to do anything, so it's basically just sitting unused on my desktop. And now, I can't even start the program because when I try it keeps telling me my key has expired. Why would my key expire?

I'm trying to remember, but I believe it installs with a temporary key and your permanent key is in your Rendo account. It's been a long time, but most of this guy's software works that way.

As for how to use it, it's actually pretty simple.....

1. File>Load Source Figure (load the original obj file from Geometries)
2. File>Load Clothing Object
3. Clear all the groups preselected - In the Source Figure Group area click the None button
4. From that same area of the program - Source Figure Group - check off the groups you want in the clothing
5. Click the Transfer Groups button
6. Click the AutoGroup2 button
7. File>Save Clothing object

 

[eclark1894]

I'm trying to remember, but I believe it installs with a temporary key and your permanent key is in your Rendo account. It's been a long time, but most of this guy's software works that way.

As for how to use it, it's actually pretty simple.....

1. File>Load Source Figure (load the original obj file from Geometries)
2. File>Load Clothing Object
3. Clear all the groups preselected - In the Source Figure Group area click the None button
4. From that same area of the program - Source Figure Group - check off the groups you want in the clothing
5. Click the Transfer Groups button
6. Click the AutoGroup2 button
7. File>Save Clothing object

Thanks, Traci. I'll give it another try, then.

 

[Glitterati3D]

Thanks, Traci. I'll give it another try, then.

If you still have trouble with the serial number, contact Rendo support. The vendor is pretty bad about not answering customer service inquiries and you'll need Rendo to get some answers from him.

Also, when using AGE on newer figures, be sure to check the list thoroughly if you use the buttons for "Upper/Lower, etc." groups. It tends to leave out the 2nd groups like Neck2, Abdomen2, Chest2, etc. You just need to make sure they are checked in the list before you transfer the groups.

 

[Hornet3d]

Ahhhh, but that shouldn't stop you. We all know there's more than one way to skin a cat in Poser, your input could be helpful no matter how many times someone has already explained it.

I will give you one example. There's a set of tutorials, along with some programming, on JCMs at Renderosity. And the person doing the tutorials is clearly talented, intelligent and an amazing programmer. But, no matter how many times I read his tutorials and try to use his program to create a JCM, the program asks for one more body part than I know what to do with. I simply get lost in his instructions. No matter how hard I try, I just can't wrap my head around it.

It's clearly my fault I can't understand the instructions.

Your right about there being more than one way to skin a cat. I was a technical trainer for a number of years, although I always thought it as more a role of facilitator. It was my role to find the hooks in a students mind that I could hang information that would explain the subject matter and as we all learn in different ways it varied from student to student. If the student did not grasp the concept of what I was teaching then the error was on my part in not being able to find a way of describing the subject in way they could understand. Of course you do not have the luxury of knowing the student in tutorials of this nature so while one tutorial will work for some people it will no work as well with others.

 

[James R.]

You guys are right, there are a number of different ways to do things in Poser...which is one of the things I love about Poser.

I've presented working techniques in the past and got shouted down because they weren't technically perfect and didn't use Cycles nodes and didn't obey the fundamental rules of particle physics and universal constraints and and and blah blah blah.

I don't need the abuse.

 

[eclark1894]

I'll give you a good example of having to explain something to people. Poser's Cloth room. People think it's magic. And you have to explain to people over and over that it's not. Here's why your sim hangs, or here's why your clot fell through the figure. In most cases, when the cloth room does not work as intended, it's usually one of two reasons. User error, or bad mesh.

 

[James R.]

I'll give you a good example of having to explain something to people. Poser's Cloth room. People think it's magic. And you have to explain to people over and over that it's not. Here's why your sim hangs, or here's why your clot fell through the figure. In most cases, when the cloth room does not work as intended, it's usually one of two reasons. User error, or bad mesh.

That's definitely a good example. The Cloth Room is a sore point for a lot of people. If they had clear explanation right from the start so they knew what to expect and how to do things...that would only be good.

 

[Hornet3d]

That's definitely a good example. The Cloth Room is a sore point for a lot of people. If they had clear explanation right from the start so they knew what to expect and how to do things...that would only be good.

Yes it is a good example but for me it also supports Glitterati's earlier point in that, just because a tutorial already exists it should not stop you creating another. I tried a fair number of tutorials on the cloth room but it still remained magic for me. Then I purchased Lully's dynamic clothing and read the included tutorial and all of a sudden I had Dawn clothed with dresses that draped correctly instead of being a pool on the floor or a mass of jagged edges. Now it could be that the information I gleamed in that tutorial just made the stuff I had already read click into place. The point still remains, without Lully's tutorial there is a good chance that I would still be avoiding the cloth room with a vengeance.

 

[Glitterati3D]

You guys are right, there are a number of different ways to do things in Poser...which is one of the things I love about Poser.

I've presented working techniques in the past and got shouted down because they weren't technically perfect and didn't use Cycles nodes and didn't obey the fundamental rules of particle physics and universal constraints and and and blah blah blah.

I don't need the abuse.

You know, I think there's a perfect example of this on the Poser forum yesterday. It just boils down to there's no "absolutes" in Poser. What works for one user works for that user and others may find it completely and utterly useless.

That's why more tutorials/instructions are better for all of us. Presentation style matters a lot, and information that is presented as "just the facts, ma'am" works for me instead of a mathematical dissertation for a material room node, etc. But that's me and the other style clearly works for others.

But, if the information is not out there, it can't work for anyone.

 

[Miss B]

But, if the information is not out there, it can't work for anyone.

Exactly!!

 

[Bonnie2001]

Yup, a set of instructions is what I want to avoid. It won't be just "Insert Tab A into Slot B".

Personally I use the instructions as a guide. For example, the image below is a boot I completed in ZBrush from a tutorial before Christmas. I made it close as possible, just changing small things to the way I liked better. But the actual boot I'm working on now won't look anything like the tutorial one here. I am just using what I learned to do my own thing.

 

[caisson]

@James R - don't stress about negative feedback. I've had none from the various bits I've done over the years. I do think it helps to avoid making absolute statements if possible. There are a few things that stand (like, don't eat yellow snow) but generally there ain't many, especially in 3d. I try to put some kind of caveat at the start so I don't have to keep repeating it throughout.

If I ever did get negative feedback then my strategy would be to say, thanks, please forward a link to/explain clearly your superior efforts, I'd love to see them, I know I am quite capable of making mistakes, & appreciate the opportunity to learn. Now, I know from retail work that excessive politeness can really upset people who are looking for an argument, but if they do have something to teach, I can improve & then plagiarise the hell out of 'em. Either way it's a win

When I make a PDF I plan, plan & then plan a bit more. Writing things down helps me; section headers, phrases, info dumps etc. I work out what screenshots I'll need & where they'll slot in; I read out loud what I've written to see if it scans; I look at what renders I can add to make it visually interesting; I view the whole thing as an artwork in itself & that stops it from being too much like work. It's publishing, which I find nerve-wracking, but it can be quite satisfying.

So I say go for it.

 

[James R.]

I would like it to be useful to someone who is totally new to Poser, so it'll have clear step by step instructions and pictures.

But I also think that longtime Poser users might find it useful, too. It's changed the way I do things...or at least has given me a new way to do things.

I'm not sure how "in depth" my explanations will be, though. I won't be explaining particle physics in order to show how to use it.

I think I'd like people to be able to understand what they're accomplishing, without being bogged down by tiny (unnecessary) details. Ultimately I'd like people to be able to grasp the concept and go implement it.



It's going to take some time for me to get it done, though. I have one version of it that's far too long and the Poser props I had hoped to use for the demonstration are... weird. I can't use them effectively. So I have to re-think it.

Again, you folks have given me lots to think about. I appreciate your input. I'll be considering this further.

 

[James R.]

@James R - don't stress about negative feedback. I've had none from the various bits I've done over the years. I do think it helps to avoid making absolute statements if possible. There are a few things that stand (like, don't eat yellow snow) but generally there ain't many, especially in 3d. I try to put some kind of caveat at the start so I don't have to keep repeating it throughout.

If I ever did get negative feedback then my strategy would be to say, thanks, please forward a link to/explain clearly your superior efforts, I'd love to see them, I know I am quite capable of making mistakes, & appreciate the opportunity to learn. Now, I know from retail work that excessive politeness can really upset people who are looking for an argument, but if they do have something to teach, I can improve & then plagiarise the hell out of 'em. Either way it's a win

When I make a PDF I plan, plan & then plan a bit more. Writing things down helps me; section headers, phrases, info dumps etc. I work out what screenshots I'll need & where they'll slot in; I read out loud what I've written to see if it scans; I look at what renders I can add to make it visually interesting; I view the whole thing as an artwork in itself & that stops it from being too much like work. It's publishing, which I find nerve-wracking, but it can be quite satisfying.

So I say go for it.

Your method of making notes etc., sounds very similar to mine. As I mentioned, I'll be thinking on this further and hopefully I can come up with something useful.

 

[James R.]

Personally I use the instructions as a guide. For example, the image below is a boot I completed in ZBrush from a tutorial before Christmas. I made it close as possible, just changing small things to the way I liked better. But the actual boot I'm working on now won't look anything like the tutorial one here. I am just using what I learned to do my own thing.

View attachment 34094

Learning by imitation is totally valid. I will have an example that people can copy and learn from.

And that boot looks just amazing, Bonnie. Such detail! I look forward to seeing what you build based on what you learn from this!

 

[Rowan54]

Some of the best tutorials I ever did both showed how they did something specific and explained WHY they used that method and how to get there from basics. It makes for a longer tutorial, and I do tend to go do my own thing for a while while experimenting. (This wasn't for Poser, it was for something else, but the basics of how to make a good tutorial applies, no matter what you are teaching.)

Like "step 1: working towards making the back ground have this particular texture." Then an explanation of some specific item or tool used, and then shown how to use that tool to get that specific effect. With maybe a sidebar on some other interesting feature that also works really well along the way, or a list of suggestions of other things one could try to do other things of a similar type. This both shows a specific application AND shows a general principle. The combination works much better than either standing alone.

At least it does for me. But then I'm the type of student who does not follow spoken lectures. (Not well, anyhow.) I have to understand it, I have to see it done, and then I have to do it myself. Otherwise, I remember nothing.