Problems with Dynamics Sim

[Satira Capriccio]

With no sleeves/straps, the PeacockDress 2 needs to be constrained. Generally, Soft Decorated and Hard Decorated are used with pieces that aren't part of the main mesh (like pockets, buttons, bows). Essentially, vertices in the Soft and Hard Decorated Groups are "removed" from the simulation so they aren't deformed, but they still follow the cloth they are "attached" to. I used Soft Decorated on the waist piping on the Nouvelle Aube dress so that the piping somewhat kept its shape rather than being stretched flat.

Constrained "pins" vertices to the figure, and requires that the vertices be close to the figure to begin with.

Putting straps in a constrained group may not be necessary unless the straps slip off the shoulders allowing the bodice to end up around the waist But ... having straps constrained can result in the whole bodice freaking out.


I tend to parent dresses to Chest 2, but I've also parented dresses to the body instead and not seen any difference.

I only drag and drop conforming clothing since that will load and conform the clothing in one step. I never drag and drop Dynamic clothing though. Dragging and dropping dynamic/smart props can result in unpredictable parenting in my experience.

 

[Miss B]

I remember the soft decorated in the Nouvelle Aube dress. I just thought I'd try everything available, if you know what I mean.

I loaded up the P9 scene in PP11, and I'm currently rendering a SuperFly render. Unfortunately, I had to use a velvet shader, because I couldn't get Lully's Red Velvet material I had originally used in P9 to look good. It came out a bright tomato red. Even the shader I'm using isn't quite the same as I was able to get in P9, but it's a little better.

At least now I know if I want to do a scene in PP11 with dynamic clothing, I need to sim the clothing in P9 and save the scene for use in PP11.

I also don't use drag and drop, though I agree it works fine with conforming clothing. I'm just used to loading and conforming manually.

BTW Dakorillon, my PP11 is up-to-date, and it lists it as version 11.0.6.33735. I'm assuming it would be the same with standard P11 as well.

Edited to Add: I'll have to finish up the final render tomorrow, as I'm having a problem getting her eyes just right.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

Turns out, my PP11 is up to day too as I'm also on 11.0.6.33735.

MissB, Did you try parenting that dress to the body in PP11?

 

[Dakorillon (IMArts)]

I just finished update the service release, will restart everything and give it a try. I don't have any earlier version of Poser (except 5), so that won't work for me. So, hopefully, for this dress, the update will work.

 

[Miss B]

MissB, Did you try parenting that dress to the body in PP11?

No, I'm planning on trying to, after I finish setting up the SuperFly render of the P9 scene I loaded up in PP11.

 

[Dakorillon (IMArts)]

Okay, update:
Finished installing update (says same number as you'alls above). Talked to Lully, and she gave me a link to her tutorial, and specific instructions for this dress. And told me to redownload the files, to make sure I had the most up to date there, too. Did all that, installed everything, restarted Poser for a clean scene, then followed the directions she gave. It does the sim perfectly, and then it "un-sims" it. So, this won't be happening for me. The first is screen shot while running the sim, the second is the same frame AFTER the sim has finished. And the 30th frame is as I have shown all the other times above. But, I wanted to show that it is working....and then not.

So, it's apparently a problem with my Poser 11.
Thank for for all the help. I have learned TONS over this process.

 

[Willowisp]

Ouch

Well, at least we have covered all angles now, all you can do is try to report it to SM, and hope for the best.

 

[Miss B]

There's one more thing you can try. Go through each of the frames and see in which frame it starts to get weird. I think you said you have your final pose on frame 20, and then use the last 10 for the dress to settle into place. So, if the dress fits perfectly on frame 20, then try deleting the last 10 frames, and then saving the scene.

Needless to say if the dress starts to go wonky before frame 20, then stop it at the appropriate frame, delete the offending frames, and then save the scene. I have heard folks complain it unsims at the end, but if you save it on an earlier frame and delete the offending frames, that might just be the trick to get it done.

I think a good number of folks have posted complaints about P11/PP11's Cloth Room on the SM Poser Forum, so SM should very well be aware of the problems. This is the first time I've played in the Cloth Room in PP11, so now I see what they were all talking about.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

With PP11, they changed the simulation file, which I think is what originally caused the problem. For some of us, that file wasn't retaining the simulation and once the simulation was done, the dress popped back to the default. Saving and reopening the Poser file also lost the simulation. Others had absolutely no problem with the simulation, so it's possible that the version of windows was also involved. Who knows!

Anyway, for most of us, the second or third service release fixed this. But, I think others have continued to have problems with it, or started experiencing the problem after a service release.

As Miss B says, if you have the pose in an earlier frame and have additional frames to allow the dress to settle. Step back to a previous frame after the pose frame. If the dress looks good there, just render from that frame. I'd wait to delete the frame until you have saved the file.

I usually spawn a morph from the simulation so that I don't have to keep the simulation file.

Set the new morph to 1. Set dynamics to 0.

Option 1. Go back to Frame 1. Load the pose (if you didn't make any adjustments to it). As long as the added morph is set to 1, you're good to go.

Option 2. Open the Animation Palette and move your good sim'd frame to frame 1. (Sorry, I said the panel at the bottom was the palette. That was wrong. It's the Animation Controls panel).

To do that, click the top green square in last good frame, hold the shift key, and click the bottom square.

That frame should now have a white line around it.

Keep the shift key held down, grab the top green square with the mouse, and drag it to Frame 1.

With a shortish simulation, it usually works the first time. With much longer simulations, you have to drag it in stages.

Once you're sure you have the sim'd frame as Frame 1. Delete all the other frames.

This has the advantage of keeping the file size down. And, once you've successfully run the simulation, you really don't need it anymore.

 

[Glitterati3D]

There's one more thing you can try. Go through each of the frames and see in which frame it starts to get weird. I think you said you have your final pose on frame 20, and then use the last 10 for the dress to settle into place. So, if the dress fits perfectly on frame 20, then try deleting the last 10 frames, and then saving the scene.

Needless to say if the dress starts to go wonky before frame 20, then stop it at the appropriate frame, delete the offending frames, and then save the scene. I have heard folks complain it unsims at the end, but if you save it on an earlier frame and delete the offending frames, that might just be the trick to get it done.

I think a good number of folks have posted complaints about P11/PP11's Cloth Room on the SM Poser Forum, so SM should very well be aware of the problems. This is the first time I've played in the Cloth Room in PP11, so now I see what they were all talking about.

It's been reported.

All you have to do is sim, then save your file and exit Poser. Reopen Poser and your file and all will be good.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

Unfortunately, I'd lose the simulation after saving and reopening the Poser file, which is why PP11 was unuseable for me for months.

Much as I like some of the PP11 improvements, I still primarily use PP2014. If I can ever get my head wrapped around Superfly, that might change.

 

[Miss B]

Option 1. Go back to Frame 1. Load the pose (if you didn't make any adjustments to it). As long as the added morph is set to 1, you're good to go.

Option 2. Open the Animation Palette and move your good sim'd frame to frame 1. (Sorry, I said the panel at the bottom was the palette. That was wrong. It's the Animation Controls panel).

To do that, click the top green square in last good frame, hold the shift key, and click the bottom square.
View attachment 26114

That frame should now have a white line around it.
View attachment 26115

Keep the shift key held down, grab the top green square with the mouse, and drag it to Frame 1.

With a shortish simulation, it usually works the first time. With much longer simulations, you have to drag it in stages.

Once you're sure you have the sim'd frame as Frame 1. Delete all the other frames.

This has the advantage of keeping the file size down. And, once you've successfully run the simulation, you really don't need it anymore.

OK, I was just thinking about doing this, but couldn't for the life of me remember how to do it. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Miss B]

All you have to do is sim, then save your file and exit Poser. Reopen Poser and your file and all will be good.

Unfortunately, I'd lose the simulation after saving and reopening the Poser file, which is why PP11 was unuseable for me for months.

I didn't lose the sim when I reopened the file last night, or a little while ago. The only thing I find annoying is, it reopens to frame 1, which has my character in default pose, and the clothes in a pile at her feet, so I need to move the slider over to frame 30 to get my final pose/sim. The best reason to move the final pose/sim to the first frame, and get rid of the other frames, as they are no longer needed.

 

[Glitterati3D]

I didn't lose the sim when I reopened the file last night, or a little while ago. The only thing I find annoying is, it reopens to frame 1, which has my character in default pose, and the clothes in a pile at her feet, so I need to move the slider over to frame 30 to get my final pose/sim. The best reason to move the final pose/sim to the first frame, and get rid of the other frames, as they are no longer needed.

My saved sims have always done this - in any version of Poser. It loads up on Frame0 and you just have to move to the last frame manually.

 

[Dakorillon (IMArts)]

Okay, will try these when I get back, have to go to the doctor with my hubby. As for good frames. It starts going bad in the "after sim" on frame 4, long before it gets to the pose. In the "during sim" it is good to the end, then pops back.

How do I save the sim? so that I can do the open it again thing?
Thanks again for the help.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

Like Glitter said (it's only taken me an hour to post this reply ), Poser files have always opened on Frame 1. So, yes. Moving the last sim frame to Frame 1 and deleting the unneeded frames helps with that. And of course, bonus that the file size ends up being smaller of course. You can then also delete the simulation file (.abc - PP11, .dyn - prePP11) since it's no longer used.

The simulation problems were supposed to have been fixed in the SR 2 or SR 3 (I don't remember which). However, some people continue to have problems with PP11 simulations. Which leads me to suspect that it's more than just the .abc sim file that's the problem.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

Just save the Poser file as usual. The simulation settings are saved in the .abc file, which is called by the Poser file.

So, if you ever archive your poser files, you want to remember to archive the .abc file too. Unless you convert the simulation to a morph.

 

[Miss B]

OK, well it took a number of renders until I finally got something I'm happy with. I kept having to up the number of Samples because her skin wasn't coming out smooth (without flecks). The dress is still rotated around 25 degrees so it fits her correctly. I'm going to try again with a fresh file to see if it happens again, because I can't imagine why that should be necessary in either P9 or PP11.

In SuperFly I had to use a velvet shader because Lully's red velvet material comes out bright red like a tomato, and not like the deep red it renders to in P9/Firefly.

 

[Miss B]

MissB, Did you try parenting that dress to the body in PP11?

Just did this Satira, and it was the trick that was needed. This time the dress did not go all wonky, and I didn't have to rotate it 25 degrees to get it to stay on Dawn when I rotated her to the final pose.

Also, I don't know if Dawn/Lully saves (can save) her Dynamic Controls, but I didn't tweak any of them this time, and it seems pretty good. The Fold Resistance is at 3.5, the Shear and Stretch Resistances are at 50.0, and the Cloth Density is at 0.005. Now I'm using one of her Velvet materials, so a little thicker look is fine for what I wanted. If I wanted it to look like silk, then I'd probably have to tweak those settings.

OK, here's a screenshot of a quick render of the dress parented to the Body instead of the Hip or Chest. I left Lully's Red Velvet texture on it, as it's light enough now for you to see the sim worked well, so this must be the trick for doing cloth sim's in PP11.

 

[Gadget Girl]

Yes, that is exactly what happens. It looks fine, nothing "poked through", then it finishes, and pops. The dress is made for Dawn, so, it's not that.

So I was going through reading the thread trying to figure out what else might be happening, and I'm curious if the issue is still presenting this way. Where it pops on the last frame, or if you can see the issues happen earlier. If you are still having trouble like that it sounds like either that Poser 11 bug that people were mentioning, or that there is a morph being used on the clothing itself somewhere, although from the very first screen shot you posted, it looks like the outfit doesn't have any morphs. The good news is if its the last frame that is bad, you can use Satira's advice:

As Miss B says, if you have the pose in an earlier frame and have additional frames to allow the dress to settle. Step back to a previous frame after the pose frame. If the dress looks good there, just render from that frame. I'd wait to delete the frame until you have saved the file.

Otherwise, if it's not happening that way anymore, (which would imply the update fixed part of your problem) I would try again with the Collision Offset and Collision Depth set back to the default of 1.0 for both. People are right, that usually you want to drop those numbers to something lower for your sim to look the best, but using the default will keep the cloth a little further from the body and may get rid of the bad poke through. Then you can experiment and find numbers that look good, but don't cause poke through.