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Getting used to new habits for Coronavirus....
- Thread starter Roberta
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Hornet3d
Wise
Sad to hear that Covid is having such a massive negative impact on your life, I hope the trend changes and soon.
Here in the UK it is difficult to know just what to do for the best, not helped by the fact that devolved government means that the response to the virus is fragmented. Here in England we are in full lockdown again but schools and universities are still open, supermarkets are open and can sell a full range of goods and pubs and restaurants can open but with heavy restrictions. In Wales, which is just about and hours drive away for me, the supermarkets are open but can not sell non essential items but non essential is open to interpretation with some very strange decisions being made and then rescinded. The list of goods that are non essential is similar to the list you have given yet everyone's view of essential is different. For example candles are not essential unless you are below the poverty line and cannot afford to pay the electricity which means candles are fairly important to be able to see in the dark. Alcohol is apparently essential as it can be purchased anywhere. The rational appears to be that it is unfair for the supermarkets to be able to sell non essential items when the smaller shops are that could also sell them are shut. This leaves many to believe that the politicians in Wales have never heard of the Internet and On Line shopping. Scotland has yet another set of rules both on shops and social distancing.
I am not against devolved governments but there are times when they should work as one and a pandemic seems to be a prime example of when they should. In England we have made it worse when the powers that be decided that elected Mayors with extended powers were a good idea. A post that seemed to come in existence with very little public demand and even today some twenty years after conception only manages, at best, to get a turnout just below 40% and many more much lower than that. Add in direct election of other local officials such as police commissioners and you have yet another level of politically motivated officials who spend most their time trying to justify their position which only adds to the arguments and confusion when something like a pandemic hits. The end result is you often have mayors trying to out do other mayors rather than trying to come up with a set of rules we can all understand.
A very personal view of the state of play here in the UK but what is not in doubt is the fact that many people do not understand what the rules are that the need to comply with, particularly when some appear to suggest things like you can sleep with your wife but not play tennis with her and other such non sensical outcomes. Daily we see politicians at all levels arguing over what is best and so say following the science which, implies that science only has one view, and throwing money at companies to provide world beating services that struggle to work at the most basic level. While all this goes on people are dying and in most case dying not just because of covid but more to do with the lack of our elected officials to actually come up with some joined up rules that will work.
Currently pure horror. My husband was yesterday evening talking with the human ressource from the new company he will work for, she also urge the administration for the permission document. Lets cross fingers.
The worst thing Miss B, is that many people call us egoistic because " it is all about money". But here is the thing. We are not alone in this situation,100.000's are in the same boat. The last lock down in France created between 800.000-1.2 million new un-employment. They are still counting, because little shop owner how get bankrupt are still in the legal process . They are bankrupt, but still wait for the justice decisions.
So, minimum 800.000 who pay no tax anymore ,but get now money from the system. Which means less tax money, less to spent for the gov on health care, social money. They raise tax, which is anyway horrible high here. People will buy less stuff, more shops will go bankrupt. They estimate that till end of the year more than 1 million people will get newly unemployed. Again less money for the gov and less for social payment and healtcare. How much un employed did they want till all crash? And when there will be not enough money anymore for proper health care?
I read in le Figaro last week, to save the live of 1 covid 19 patient, it cost French taxpayer 6 million € . This is money which has to earned at first, but when less and less tax payer are there, what to do?
@Hornet3d
Could not say it better. Here is the same full chaos. Bar's , restaurants are closed. But you can buy alcohol....but no books. It is forbidden to visit your mother for her birthday , but you can use the Métro
You can buy flowers in the supermarket, but not in a flower shop...and the list oc incompetence goes on and on.
In the Vosges , when you live in a range of 1 square meter from the forest, you can enter the forest. But not a park. Makes all no sense .
Could not say it better. Here is the same full chaos. Bar's , restaurants are closed. But you can buy alcohol....but no books. It is forbidden to visit your mother for her birthday , but you can use the Métro
You can buy flowers in the supermarket, but not in a flower shop...and the list oc incompetence goes on and on.In the Vosges , when you live in a range of 1 square meter from the forest, you can enter the forest. But not a park. Makes all no sense .
Hornet3d
Wise
That is the dilemma, you can try and live as normal as possible and let literally thousands of people die yet we do not need to look too far to see the result if you concentrate solely on the economy. You can throw money at it as if there is no tomorrow as if you can bribe the virus not to continue to spread. The UK in general has been good at throwing money at the people and the systems, people who cannot work and systems that seem to have little chance of ever working. We have stock piles of PPE equipment which seems a great until you realise we have so much that well over 50% will never be used because we will not be able to use it all before the end of life date. We are paying vast amounts of money to people employed in the retail, entertainment and hospitality sectors to keep their jobs safe when we all know that none of these sectors would go back to normal, and employ the same numbers, even if the virus magically disappeared tomorrow. Even the messages are mixed, before the virus the government were trying to make everyone aware of the dangers of junk food. During the pandemic the same government encouraged everyone to go out for a meal that the government would subsidise, most of the money was spent on junk food. Still never mind it helped the hospitality industry, or did it? First we shut the pubs and restaurants down, then we opened them up again and encouraged people to use them by subsidising their meal. Next we allowed them to stay open but not after 22.00 on any day and then we err........ shut most of them down again.
We are saving people from dying from the covid but letting many with heart conditions, cancer and other serious complications die because we may need the hospital beds for covid patients.
Still at some point we will have vaccine for the virus and all will be well except, we now have a bill to pay that will take twenty, thirty, fifty years to pay back? Who knows the actual length of time but it will impact all of those alive today for most of their lives. I don't know best way to deal with this but I do know we are in danger of the cure being worse than the virus. I know we have spent billions on a track and trace system that has difficulty in tracking and tracing. We have spent massive amounts of money on a tracking app that appears will never be fully operational as not enough people will download it, of course many would have to pay hundreds of pounds to do so because they would need to upgrade the phones as it only works on the latest phones. I went for a meal with five other people, six was the limit, and at the restaurant we needed to scan our phones not one of them could use the system. That covered and age group from 22- 65 years of age, so it was not age specific either.
Somehow we have to learn to live with covid, it is not going away any time soon but we cannot remain in lockdown for years to come and few would want to. Having any sort of life will not be without risk but when was life ever without risk. At the moment governments seem to be throwing money at anything while many in the population cannot, or will not, take simple precautions like wearing a mask and washing their hands. Much of this has nothing to do with covid, it just happened to be the entity that exposed the weaknesses in our system and they way we live.
@Hornet3d
All facts.
My mother in law is not afraid of the Covid virus , she is afraid to be alone. She is depressive . She had 20 years ago and surgery with her Thyroid. Since this she need regular tests and medicament's but they make her moody and depressive. Her tests are delayed . Which can cost her live when this medicament is not dosed properly. Her doctor need to adjust the doses regularly according to the test.
Because the depression, she don't eat. Now she has heavy stomach problems. Which they don't check properly too because hospitals take only covid patients or emergency. We are afraid of her.
Restaurants are closed, but people can order home Mac Donald food. Very healthy.
Macron promised 8000 new Hospital beds and new staff, new respirator machines. He delivered 0. Not one bed more, or staff. Where did all the money go? He promis left and right Milliards and deliver nothing. Accept for useless stuff like the Covid app. And new staff member for his "Covid team"....
Yes, we will have to live with this virus, like with all the other virus too. Open up the economies again, let people live, work, go out.
Lock up the vulnerable , provide them enough help, like home delivery. Because if we continue like this, we may will rescue some elderly people but kill the economie and take many, many lives. Because poverty kills too. Depression, people with pre conditions like cancer, diabetes, heart, kidney, liver issues. Like my mother in Law.
We risk the future of our children when we continue this path.
All facts.
My mother in law is not afraid of the Covid virus , she is afraid to be alone. She is depressive . She had 20 years ago and surgery with her Thyroid. Since this she need regular tests and medicament's but they make her moody and depressive. Her tests are delayed . Which can cost her live when this medicament is not dosed properly. Her doctor need to adjust the doses regularly according to the test.
Because the depression, she don't eat. Now she has heavy stomach problems. Which they don't check properly too because hospitals take only covid patients or emergency. We are afraid of her.
Restaurants are closed, but people can order home Mac Donald food. Very healthy.
Macron promised 8000 new Hospital beds and new staff, new respirator machines. He delivered 0. Not one bed more, or staff. Where did all the money go? He promis left and right Milliards and deliver nothing. Accept for useless stuff like the Covid app. And new staff member for his "Covid team"....
Yes, we will have to live with this virus, like with all the other virus too. Open up the economies again, let people live, work, go out.
Lock up the vulnerable , provide them enough help, like home delivery. Because if we continue like this, we may will rescue some elderly people but kill the economie and take many, many lives. Because poverty kills too. Depression, people with pre conditions like cancer, diabetes, heart, kidney, liver issues. Like my mother in Law.
We risk the future of our children when we continue this path.
Hornet3d
Wise
All true here in the UK and, at the same time we have UK companies that have been in business for years providing protective equipment approaching the government to see what they need. The response from the government, well there is none they ignore the established company and buy the PPE from newly formed companies, often abroad, at a two or three times the price of the UK company. The final insult is when the PPE does not meet standards so cannot be used. The Government is also giving handouts to companies that are struggling during the pandemic, nothing wrong with that but it is how it is being implemented is worrying with rumours that money is being given to companies that never even existed before the pandemic. Not many will make it into 2021 but they were never meant to
Not that this is new behaviour for the UK government of whatever makeup, before the pandemic there was the contract that was awarded to a ferry company to help deliver good to the UK after Brexit only possible problem was the did not own any ferries, or indeed ships of any kind.
Many years ago they had a communication hub built under the private finance scheme where the private company builds what the government needs and then the Government rents it. The hub is question was to house the emergency services , Fire, Police and Ambulance which were all at separate locations at that point. For many years the hub was left vacant and probably still is but we still pay the rent. All the computer equipment was ordered, delivered and never used, again nothing unusual for government contracts. By the time the computer equipment is unpacked it is well out of any warranty and, in some cases worthless as they are now so dated. It is a scenario played out on a regular basis and copied by local authorities who then complain they do not have enough to pay nurses and repair roads. One can only hope that one of the outcomes of the pandemic is we will see that such behavior which, at best, is negligent and often borders on the criminal is outlawed. Not holding my breath though.
Not that this is new behaviour for the UK government of whatever makeup, before the pandemic there was the contract that was awarded to a ferry company to help deliver good to the UK after Brexit only possible problem was the did not own any ferries, or indeed ships of any kind.
Many years ago they had a communication hub built under the private finance scheme where the private company builds what the government needs and then the Government rents it. The hub is question was to house the emergency services , Fire, Police and Ambulance which were all at separate locations at that point. For many years the hub was left vacant and probably still is but we still pay the rent. All the computer equipment was ordered, delivered and never used, again nothing unusual for government contracts. By the time the computer equipment is unpacked it is well out of any warranty and, in some cases worthless as they are now so dated. It is a scenario played out on a regular basis and copied by local authorities who then complain they do not have enough to pay nurses and repair roads. One can only hope that one of the outcomes of the pandemic is we will see that such behavior which, at best, is negligent and often borders on the criminal is outlawed. Not holding my breath though.
@Hornet3d
Same here in France. Big words and nothing visible, except throw out Milliards of Euro .
My husbands brother in Law is Director from a home for Children which come from very difficult families. Currently he don't know what to do.
He got 9 new children which need special care from Psychologue's because traumatized. 2 of the get heavy beaten up, 3 who are siblings lost both parents in a accident , others had no better fate. The problem is, 7 from his Psychologue's team member are in quarantine because one get tested ( without symptoms ) positive. The administration is unable to send him other Psychologue's. They give him the advice to put the children back at home till the problem is solved .....Incredible. The live of this children is at risk and they do nothing against it.
But macron promised to take special care for all of this kind of issues ( in March) now we have Nov. and nothing was done.
Same here in France. Big words and nothing visible, except throw out Milliards of Euro .
My husbands brother in Law is Director from a home for Children which come from very difficult families. Currently he don't know what to do.
He got 9 new children which need special care from Psychologue's because traumatized. 2 of the get heavy beaten up, 3 who are siblings lost both parents in a accident , others had no better fate. The problem is, 7 from his Psychologue's team member are in quarantine because one get tested ( without symptoms ) positive. The administration is unable to send him other Psychologue's. They give him the advice to put the children back at home till the problem is solved .....Incredible. The live of this children is at risk and they do nothing against it.
But macron promised to take special care for all of this kind of issues ( in March) now we have Nov. and nothing was done.
Macron is a coat turner. Not really much people here take him seriously anymore.
When he appointed his new premier minister after the first lock down, he lost the last sympathy. His new premier travel for 2 months trough France "to listen to the people" . After he listen 2 months, he do the exact opposite what people ask him to do. In face of Covid not 1 promise was kept, not one promised help goes out properly.
The result, the French don't care anymore and besides of the new confinement , strangely the streets are full , people do not listen anymore ,do not want to take any orders anymore from people who disrespect and lie to them.
Yesterday late afternoon, when we was in the fields with the dogs, the fields was full with people, running, walk with dogs in groups, cycles , on the far away street we could see many cars .
When I talk later on the phone with my Mother in law, she told me she was out in the park and meet her friend. I was shocked, because she is usually somebody very calm and comply . And incredibly, she cursed Macron, never heard such words from her before.
The joke is, she voted for him and admired him for so long.
@Hornet3d
Could not say it better. Here is the same full chaos. Bar's , restaurants are closed. But you can buy alcohol....but no books. It is forbidden to visit your mother for her birthday , but you can use the Métro
In the Vosges , when you live in a range of 1 square meter from the forest, you can enter the forest. But not a park. Makes all no sense .
I hear you, here in the Netherlands it's the same.
Now we are not allowed to travel abroad nut it's okay to take a holiday in our overseas territories - the Dutch Carribean. So not okay to have a ski-holiday in Austria but it's allright to lay on the beach in Curacao.
And my wive's place of work is so double on this. They have people tested but want to to return to work as soon as possible, even with cold symptoms. Like, no covid? Okay, but never mind the flue.....
Alisa, the question is, died the people with or from Covid? Here in France more and more people question the statistiques and ask for honest numbers. Many, many cases are simply wrong . One example, a colleague from my husband was telling him 3 weeks ago that his mother who had cancer in end stadium and was on morphine since 2 weeks died. Everybody except this in the family that she will not survive the year. After he went to the hospital to pick up her stuff ( they could because it happened before the new confinement) , on her door was a note pined "died from covid 19". He asked what this supposed to mean? Well, they said she was positive of Covid...she goes in the statistique of Covid dead, even when she died from her Cancer. This is wrong.Let's see.. USA over 126,000 new cases and over 1000 deaths yesterday
And now more and more people are claiming that their relatives who die go in Covid statistiques, even when the cause of their dead is something different. But when they are positive, even without symptoms, they are in.
They need to be honest with us.
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Hornet3d
Wise
Trouble is actually collecting covid death numbers is very difficult and even if you could count those that have died directly from covid it is not the full story. Here in the UK there are a number of deaths that were possibly due indirectly to covid such as cancer patients whose treatment has been suspended not to mention those who do not present to the medical team for fear of covid. I know that it helps to have accurate death rate numbers for covid but it does only tell part of the story.
Of more concern, for me at least, is the one you have highlighted - some politicians who knowingly break the rules and that is true in the UK as well. Government ministers who are active in giving advice and then clearly ignoring them personally. A politician who travelled from one end of the UK and back via train while being suspect of having the virus on the way down and positive for covid on the way back. Both kept their jobs, were not disciplined and refused to resign. It suggests one of two things, either that they do not believe the rules they are creating or they do believe but it that it only applies to those beneath them. No surprise then that people lose faith when there is one rule for them and another for us. Many will eventually pay the price when the go for re-election but that leave the people wondering if there is a politician with a better moral compass. There was little evidence there was before the virus and it certainly hasn't improved since. I remember a joke many years ago about young person voting for the first time asking their dad how they could decide who was the honest politician, the reply? Easy, they will be the one wearing the pink bowler hat. Sadly not so funny these days.
Hornet3d
Wise
Let's see.. USA over 126,000 new cases and over 1000 deaths yesterday
I have no words that can convey my horror at what I see in the USA, covid is a killer worldwide but there are ways that it can be limited at least. To look at the figure of those that have died and then try to imagine the number of people hurt by each death is unbearable to imagine. To fear that the peak has yet to be reached is a fear that is hard to cope with. I only hope and pray that, for whatever reason, that there is a better future than the one appears to likely. I hope those that have ignored the truth of the virus and who have either actively or passively allowed it to reach this level can live with themselves if it takes someone close to them.
The problem here is when they lie and cheat with real covid death numbers, this does more harm than anything else. People begin to ask, when this virus is so deadly, why did they need to cheat and round up the statistiques? Why they never tell that the tests increase each day more and more, the result from this is , more infected get detected. But they don't. They mix all the dead together , while people keep asking if we now can not die from heart disease, old, cancer anymore, just Covid? The yearly Influenza season is there, did they put this also in the Covid statistique?
If they continue, the end result will be horrible. People will not listen to them anymore and conspiracy theorists will have high season.
They can argument "Look, they lie with statistiques , what else did they lie to us?". Le Figaro was last week in heavy critique from the readers.
Their main headline "800 new Codid 19 dead." Sound like over night 800 new die. The true was hidden in the article. They got numbers from the last 4 days from nursing homes and hospitals late. So the 800 "new dead" was numbers from 4 days in a row, from nursing homes and hospitals. The question which arrive, did they all die from or with?
They loose the trust from the people like this.
Not to mention that many politicians get caught red handed. Without mask, travelling , shopping like crazy in Luxury boutiques while people are forbidden to buy books, they had "private shopping " . Yes, makes them look horrible hypocrites and this is the reason people stop to comply.
You are right, not funny at all anymore.
Hornet3d
Wise
In the UK one official body recently had to reprimand the UK Government for inflating the figures in what appeared to be an attempt to make the facts justify their actions.
Trouble is the writing has been on the walls for years. Up until the pandemic the biggest compliant against social media was the stealing and misuse of peoples data, no one seemed to care much about the ability to wrap absurd and dangerous opinions up as facts. What is now called fake news looked dangerous, only now when it is helping to kill people in thousands are we beginning to understand it true power to corrupt. That is worrying enough but even before we can fully understand the danger of this the next threat is already with us...........Artificial Intelligence.
Trouble is the writing has been on the walls for years. Up until the pandemic the biggest compliant against social media was the stealing and misuse of peoples data, no one seemed to care much about the ability to wrap absurd and dangerous opinions up as facts. What is now called fake news looked dangerous, only now when it is helping to kill people in thousands are we beginning to understand it true power to corrupt. That is worrying enough but even before we can fully understand the danger of this the next threat is already with us...........Artificial Intelligence.