• Welcome to the Community Forums at HiveWire 3D! Please note that the user name you choose for our forum will be displayed to the public. Our store was closed as January 4, 2021. You can find HiveWire 3D and Lisa's Botanicals products, as well as many of our Contributing Artists, at Renderosity. This thread lists where many are now selling their products. Renderosity is generously putting products which were purchased at HiveWire 3D and are now sold at their store into customer accounts by gifting them. This is not an overnight process so please be patient, if you have already emailed them about this. If you have NOT emailed them, please see the 2nd post in this thread for instructions on what you need to do

Official Announcement: DAZ terminates agreement to publish HiveWire 3D animals!

Glitterati3D

Dances with Bees
I am sorry, what would YOU call someone that knowingly violates an NDA just because they feel wronged while hiding behind a fake name? What would YOU call a person who is publicly bashing sites and people behind a fake name? Instead of being a grown up and handling it with some maturity?

They have stated they sell at other sites, so leave Daz and sell there. Don't cry about it and leak info and bash your fellow vendors over it.

Says the person with a fake name who came here solely to bash someone. Hypocrisy much?
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
BREATHE, FOLKS! Please?

I really, really need to get back to work. But, I'm not comfortable with what's being posted.
 

LisaB

HW3D Vice President & Queen Bee
Staff member
Co-Founder
I have taken my time with each post in this thread. I have gone back to read them again and again. In the process I have come to read some posts differently than I did the first time. Sometimes in a way that made me feel good and sometimes in a way that made me feel badly. I have done, and continue to do my best to stand in the other person's shoes.

In this past week alone, I have communicated with others in a frank and open way, with kindness in my heart, with, what I feel, is a compassionate respect for the other person, their opinions, values and viewpoints. Guess what happened? The words I sent out there, whether verbally or in writing, from the perspective of the other person, had an effect that did not convey my intention at all. My words were received by others in a way that made them feel attacked. Totally NOT what I had set out to do. I am working on making those things "right" and will continue to do so until there is peace in each situation.

So, for those who don't have time to read a 30 page thread, may I suggest that you make the time and really do your best to put yourself in the other person's shoes. It's easy to yell "Personal Attack! Personal Attack!". We are all big boys and girls here however, we will not stand for bullying of any kind.

Edited 08-12-17 to remove an example I gave which has been explained to me is a passive/agressive form of bullying.

You are free to state your opinion, share what you think or how you feel, but you'll need to back that up with something concrete as to why you have arrived at that conclusion WITHOUT making personal attacks - direct, passive/aggressive, or otherwise.

If you have to violate an NDA to share what you think, feel or have an opinion on, then it would be wise to refrain from sharing.

"In my opinion, ..."
"I think that ..."
"I disagree with what has been stated because ..."

And give concrete examples or details when you share your thoughts and opinions.

:beehive:
 
Last edited:

eclark1894

Visionary
I have taken my time with each post in this thread. I have gone back to read them again and again. In the process I have come to read some posts differently than I did the first time. Sometimes in a way that made me feel good and sometimes in a way that made me feel badly. I have done, and continue to do my best to stand in the other person's shoes.

In this past week alone, I have communicated with others in a frank and open way, with kindness in my heart, with, what I feel, is a compassionate respect for the other person, their opinions, values and viewpoints. Guess what happened? The words I sent out there, whether verbally or in writing, from the perspective of the other person, had an effect that did not convey my intention at all. My words were received by others in a way that made them feel attacked. Totally NOT what I had set out to do. I am working on making those things "right" and will continue to do so until there is peace in each situation.

So, for those who don't have time to read a 30 page thread, may I suggest that you make the time and really do your best to put yourself in the other person's shoes. It's easy to yell "Personal Attack! Personal Attack!". We are all big boys and girls here however, we will not stand for bullying of any kind.

You are free to say that the ACTIONS of a person are ADJECTIVE but you are not free to label that person with the same adjective.

Sometimes, the way I word things or communicate things can be labeled with an adjective, however _I_ am not that adjective. I am human, just like everyone else. I have things that I am very good at and things that I need to work on. As do we all.

:beehive:
Goes to what I said a few posts back, Lisa. I'm all for an honest and open debate. As long as it's a CIVIL debate.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I never had a problem with the original Genesis androgyny. I thought that was rather cool even. Nope. What upset me ... as well as other Poser users ... was that DAZ was no longer releasing figures that could be used natively in Poser. DAZ's solution (DSON) was haphazard at best, and non functional for me, as well as others.
I also was rather pleased with the original Genesis as well, and still use V5 and M5. I liked the idea of a single character that could be used for either male or female characters, and I was ONLY using DAZ Studio back then. When they changed their formula by going back to separate male and female characters with Genesis 2, I stopped updating my DAZ Studio (never went past DS 4.0 Pro), let my PC membership run out, and stopped buying anything new, other than environmental products such as those by Stonemason and Jack Tomalin as long as they had usability in DS 3 Advanced and DS 4.0 Pro. IOW, I used the Poser versions of products I purchased (other than those for Genesis 1) in DS, so as long as they were usable in earlier versions of DS, I was a happy camper.

I was using DAZ Studio from Version 2, and yet I stalled with Genesis 2, and it had absolutely nothing to do with DSON's unreliability in Poser. I didn't get back to Poser until Chris and Lisa, et al. opened HiveWire 3D, and introduced their wonderful characters Dawn, Dusk, Luna and the HiveWire Animals. My largest Runtime is still in DS 3 Advanced, as it's still installed on my laptop, and I use items from it in DS 3A, DS 4.0P as well as P9 and PP11.

Oddly enough, it took a tiny little company with a handful of employees to develop a figure (in DS no less) that was fully able to take advantage of the same features in DS that Genesis does ... AND ... miracle of miracles since we'd been told so many times it was impossible ... worked fantastically in Poser ... natively.

Couldn't be done. Well no. Not until HiveWire came along with a goal of doing things right for both DS and Poser users.
YAY HIVEWIRE 3D!! :D
 
Last edited:

Alisa

RETIRED HW3D QAV Director (QAV Queen Bee)
Staff member
QAV-BEE
:peace::please:

I would like to remind EVERYONE HERE of what we expect at our forums: to express opinions respectfully (which most people, I think, have done).

We like to allow people to speak their minds, but there HAVE been some comments here that are definitely stepping a bit over the line with personal attacks, etc.

HiveWire is not anti DAZ Studio. Our awesome rigger, Paul, rigs all our products in DAZ Studio. We have NOTHING against any of the wonderful PAs at DAZ or any of the many great products sold there. I'm actually a PC member there and while I don't buy a ton of things, I do buy things. So there is nothing coming from HiveWire telling people not to go to DAZ or not to buy from DAZ. If forum members don't want to do so, that's their option, and they're free to state that in our forums. I don't think it's appropriate for them to tell others to follow suit.

We would really appreciate if ALL of the forum members will be respectful from here on in.

If you think that one of your posts in this thread is something you aren't proud of, please edit it or send a pm to me and I will do so.

There have been several since yesterday evening that REALLY need to be edited and if I don't hear from a few of you soon, I will likely edit them (just to remove insults) and let you know what I did and why via pm.

Razor, welcome and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

It's not good form to quote yourself, I know, but I said this yesterday morning and I stand by it:

You know, if someone posted an opposing view here, in support of DAZ, I would hope and anticipate that no one would jump on them, either. We can correct information that is incorrect, if stated, but everyone's got a right to their opinions.

Thank you!
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Thanks for the reminder Alisa. Sometimes I need to be reminded as well.
 

Alisa

RETIRED HW3D QAV Director (QAV Queen Bee)
Staff member
QAV-BEE
Welcome :).

People are talking about Genesis (the original). I had tried and disliked DAZ Studio early on (not because there was anything wrong with it, but because it was so different than Poser, which I was used to). It was the original Genesis figures that made me take another look, and I liked what I saw! Now I use both.

There are things about both programs I wish were different, and things I think are awesome. No anti-DAZ Studio bias here.
 
Personally, I have issues with forums where the rules are enforced inconsistently. Must be that Libra influence. I don't know how many times I've whined ... but, it's not FAIR! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Life isn't fair. But life's roll of the dice isn't a valid excuse for people to act like bullies. Nor is it justification to deprive some people of rights because they don't look like you, speak your language, worship your god, love the same gender you do, or come from the same countries your ancestors did. Granted ... forum inequality is rather insignificant. Sorta. It's just on a tiny scale what's wrong with society on the larger scale. /grumble.

Anyway ... I can live with a forum where the rules are clear and enforced consistently. Even if they are draconian :p But not when the rules are enforced only for some members ... simply because they don't hold the popular view, while those members who hold the popular view are allowed to attack members with no repercussions. I can't think of any other forum (including game forums where people get even more upset) where I've had posts pulled to the degree I had at DAZ. Usually, I could understand the explanation. But by 2013, my posts were being pulled with no explanation. I could only assume it was because I responded positively to comments about Dawn (or later, posted images of Dawn) ... while other posts mentioning Dawn (or HiveWire) negatively were allowed to remain.


I never had a problem with the original Genesis androgyny. I thought that was rather cool even. Nope. What upset me ... as well as other Poser users ... was that DAZ was no longer releasing figures that could be used natively in Poser. DAZ's solution (DSON) was haphazard at best, and non functional for me, as well as others. Why would it be a surprise that as PAs released less and less new content that could be used in Poser (rather quickly no less) even though that content was not clothing or characters, Poser users were upset? The androgyny thing was really an issue with DS users rather than Poser users. We had bigger concerns. Like ... a PC subscription that was increasingly rather worthless. Big problem when there were two years left on the subscription, and you couldn't get a refund. Nor could you take advantage of any of the "benefits" of being a PC member unless you wanted ancient content. Any wonder some of us felt really, really burned?

Oddly enough, it took a tiny little company with a handful of employees to develop a figure (in DS no less) that was fully able to take advantage of the same features in DS that Genesis does ... AND ... miracle of miracles since we'd been told so many times it was impossible ... worked fantastically in Poser ... natively.

Couldn't be done. Well no. Not until HiveWire came along with a goal of doing things right for both DS and Poser users.

Devil's Advocate position: DAZ could have done it, but didn't see the character as complete without ALL the rest of the features. Case in point: Carrara 8.5 supports most of the same technology as DAZ Studio with respect to the Genesis family of figure. It's not perfect and there are outstanding bugs, but they did show that single DSON based figure could be used in another program.
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I am SOO SOO Sorry Lisa what you have said was taken as a personal attack by anyone! Oh my gosh. You are the most amazing person to me. You are always so kind and gentle and supportive. I just can't imagine anyone seeing anything hurtful in anything you say.

You really are the wind beneath our wings you know?
 

Alisa

RETIRED HW3D QAV Director (QAV Queen Bee)
Staff member
QAV-BEE
Just a note that HW products have DIFFERENT Poser and DAZ Studio versions, not ONE figure/products which works equally well in both programs. This, of course, creates extra work.

Please, please, let's not get into (heaven knows it's been discussed elsewhere ad nauseum) whether the reason that didn't happen with the Genesis figures was because of the creators of DAZ Studio or those of Poser. :)
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
No, if I'm not mistaken, Traci was referring to Captainclone, not you, as s/he specifically stated that wasn't her/his usual Nick/Alias on forums, more specifically on the DAZ forum.
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I've taken that Devil's Advocate position a time or two myself!

Considering DSON also did not produce a "character as complete without ALL the rest of the features," ya gotta wonder why DSON was acceptable and a Poser version of Genesis wasn't?

From what I understand from our HiveWire DS users, Dawn is able to take advantage of the same features in DS that Genesis does. Consequently, the same could be said about Dawn ... where Dawn isn't "complete without ALL the rest of the features" in Poser as she is in DS. But the reality is that Dawn is awesome in Poser, which means that a Poser version Genesis ... even without all the bells and whistles of the DS technology ... would probably have been acceptable to the DAZ Poser customers. Most likely, more so even than Dawn simply because there are a lot of V4 users who feel unless it's DAZ, it's not an acceptable replacement. We could have avoided the last what ... six years of a broken community? Wouldn't that have been fabulous?

Woulda, coulda, shoulda ...

Devil's Advocate position: DAZ could have done it, but didn't see the character as complete without ALL the rest of the features. Case in point: Carrara 8.5 supports most of the same technology as DAZ Studio with respect to the Genesis family of figure. It's not perfect and there are outstanding bugs, but they did show that single DSON based figure could be used in another program.

So sorry Alisa, if I implied Dawn is a single figure that works equally as well in both DS and Poser. I am aware the HiveWire DS & Poser figures are different versions ... which requires extra work ... but our newer members may not realize that. So, I should have been more careful in how I phrased what I posted.
 

PoisenedLily

Inspired
I'd call them by their name or the name they're known as here in the forum. Look, if a contract was breached between DAZ and another party, unless you were also a party to that contract, let DAZ handle it. What are you getting so worked up over?


Fair enough. Now why don't we all practice what we preach, act like the adults we all claim to be, and stop calling people names?

If you don't think you can do this, then perhaps it's time to take a step back and step away from the keyboard.

Ok so first let me apologize if I am not properly quoting/replying to these. I am new to these forums and the quote and reply buttons seem the same to me and I can never remember which one I pressed the last time lol

I just wanted to clear up for eclark1894 why I was worked up. I feel it's a fair question and deserves an answer.

I am worked up because someone is claiming they are being treated unfairly by Daz so their answer is to hide behind a fake name, leak NDA material, and bash the site and vendors? (maybe they didn't get the trophy they feel they so rightly deserve?) If you want to pretend you are a bad ass, you should own your shit. I don't like being grouped into a category just because they are mad at the site I happen to sell at. I have seen a few posts by Captainclone seemingly amused at his/her anonymity. As for their claim of being bullied, utter horse poo. Even in their post trying to SHOW they are bullied it doesn't show bullying. Unreal.

I hope that cleared up why I was so worked up. I honestly have calmed down over it. But yes I was extremely heated. I apologize if my "excitement" offended anyone. (Unless you are captainclone, I hope to God I offended you)
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
Gosh! We've attracted three DAZ PAs to our humble home? Awesome! The more the merrier. Any interest in developing for the HiveWire figures? That would be even more awesome!

You'll find there are a lot of interesting discussions going on in other topics and areas at HiveWire too. This topic isn't necessarily the best way to get a feel for our community. Passionate stuff can be rather polarizing :wink:

One of my favorites is the Anchorage. It's rather cool reading about life on a boat in New Zealand. Even if it makes me rather envious as I've always wanted to live on the water. On ... or even beside.
 

Hornet3d

Wise
I have taken my time with each post in this thread. I have gone back to read them again and again. In the process I have come to read some posts differently than I did the first time. Sometimes in a way that made me feel good and sometimes in a way that made me feel badly. I have done, and continue to do my best to stand in the other person's shoes.

In this past week alone, I have communicated with others in a frank and open way, with kindness in my heart, with, what I feel, is a compassionate respect for the other person, their opinions, values and viewpoints. Guess what happened? The words I sent out there, whether verbally or in writing, from the perspective of the other person, had an effect that did not convey my intention at all. My words were received by others in a way that made them feel attacked. Totally NOT what I had set out to do. I am working on making those things "right" and will continue to do so until there is peace in each situation.

So, for those who don't have time to read a 30 page thread, may I suggest that you make the time and really do your best to put yourself in the other person's shoes. It's easy to yell "Personal Attack! Personal Attack!". We are all big boys and girls here however, we will not stand for bullying of any kind.

You are free to say that the ACTIONS of a person are ADJECTIVE but you are not free to label that person with the same adjective.

Sometimes, the way I word things or communicate things can be labeled with an adjective, however _I_ am not that adjective. I am human, just like everyone else. I have things that I am very good at and things that I need to work on. As do we all.

:beehive:

While this is a heated subject and it is always difficult to express your thoughts in a way that everyone understands, it is certainly for me, it is all to easy to return in kind if you think you are being attacked. I would suggest this may be easier to do if you are new to the forum but only because you do not know the history of the person involved. This is a case in point, everyone who has spent any time here knows just what a big heart you have and in no way would you go out of your way to attack anyone.

From the posts you had made here I think you have shown that time and again but then Razor 42 post has shown that what I deem as acceptable may not be seen as such by everyone, no matter whose post they are reading. It has made me think and I value his words at for that if not a lot more.

I will try and be more careful in future but as Razor 42 said he saw something that troubled him but showed restraint. It is possible to conclude then that because something that could be construed as bashing by some and deemed to be agreeable to the many just because nothing was said at the time could just be they too may have just be showing restraint.

Just my view, not trying to anger anyone but trying to show support for those whose values I respect. It is a sad fact, but human nature I guess, that those who speak their truths quietly and clearly often go unheard over the shouting.
 
Top