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Show Us Your Dawn Renders!

Hornet3d

Distinguished
This is the kind of item that would greatly benefit from PBR rendering with HDRI. That's perfect for metals and glass. :)

Thanks for the suggestion, I did not mean to do a head and shoulders render but did a close up of the head while trying to play with the materials and liked what I saw. Strange how you fall over things when you are just playing. The suit is set up with different setups for firefly and Superfly, something I only noticed when I tried changing some settings and seeing no change in the render. Clearly this is not an issue if you render straight from the box but it does have an impact if you are playing with the materials. I struggled with this as the red trim that looks like plastic does so because I have set up the emissions in Superfly. I also changed the specular on the helmet glass as the reflections were wiping out the eyes.

I think I will have another go but I suspect it is going to take a lot more work than just adding a HDRI, I would give it a go in Octane but I have yet to find a skin tone I like when using Octane.
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
@Hornet3d One way to handle helmet reflections is to use Fresnel effect. This pushes reflections towards the sides, leaving the center of curved surfaces reflex-free. Another way is to reduce index of refraction (IOR) to a lower value, where glass is around 1.42, depending on the kind of glass. Yet another way is to use a Reflection node, which allows controlling the specular reflection intensity. That can also be controlled on the Physical Root node. This is in the materials side.

On the lighting side, the lights placements are also important, but only for shadow placement and highlight hotspots, since the majority of reflections will come from the HDRI map. In Poser in particular, HDRI is not handled by Cycles/Superfly like it is with I-ray and Octane. We have to add the dome or sphere ourselves, which introduces a new problem - scale and perspective. HDRI maps tend to look HUGE in Poser, and we try to compensate with camera lenses, which can add a lot of perspective distortion. In other words, it is MUCH easier to render with HDRI in I-ray and Octane than it is in Poser. It's hard to get realistic reflections with HDRI in Poser when the maps don't show in the right scale. Emissive lights also suffer from Poser's tiny scale, because they depend on real world scale.

I have noticed these things because I was rendering with Octane in Poser years before Superfly came out, so I couldn't help noticing how the tiny Poser scale affected PBR lighting with HDRI and emissive lights. I find this particularly challenging with Superfly.
 

Hornet3d

Distinguished
@Hornet3d One way to handle helmet reflections is to use Fresnel effect. This pushes reflections towards the sides, leaving the center of curved surfaces reflex-free. Another way is to reduce index of refraction (IOR) to a lower value, where glass is around 1.42, depending on the kind of glass. Yet another way is to use a Reflection node, which allows controlling the specular reflection intensity. That can also be controlled on the Physical Root node. This is in the materials side.

On the lighting side, the lights placements are also important, but only for shadow placement and highlight hotspots, since the majority of reflections will come from the HDRI map. In Poser in particular, HDRI is not handled by Cycles/Superfly like it is with I-ray and Octane. We have to add the dome or sphere ourselves, which introduces a new problem - scale and perspective. HDRI maps tend to look HUGE in Poser, and we try to compensate with camera lenses, which can add a lot of perspective distortion. In other words, it is MUCH easier to render with HDRI in I-ray and Octane than it is in Poser. It's hard to get realistic reflections with HDRI in Poser when the maps don't show in the right scale. Emissive lights also suffer from Poser's tiny scale, because they depend on real world scale.

I have noticed these things because I was rendering with Octane in Poser years before Superfly came out, so I couldn't help noticing how the tiny Poser scale affected PBR lighting with HDRI and emissive lights. I find this particularly challenging with Superfly.

Thank you for the information, as you have probably gathered mu grasp of Superfly is tenuous if that and most of my changes use commercial Superfly materials. Some of them come with user guides which I have read more then once, learning a little more each time. Despite that most of my changes are done by seeing a problem and then seeing what I can change to make the change go away.

Your description on HDRI at least explains why I sometime struggle with it in Poser, here again I often use commercial products with varying degrees of success. It doesn't help that I flit from Superfly to Octane and back rather then concentrating on one or the other but at the end of the day the render is the most important thing to me and so I use what I can to get the best render of a particular scene.
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
@Hornet3d Yeah, sometimes I am tempted to switch to Octane, but then I have to spent most of the time fixing the materials. Its' amazing how SMS managed to make Poser RSR and Cycles materials compatible at shader node level. I think most people take that for granted, but it's easy to realize how important that is whenever I render with Octane or I-ray, where materials are incompatible with everything else. :)
 

Me195

Extraordinary
Awesome! It's cool how iClone can render scenes much larger than Poser/DS because of the lighter environment. Did you use I-ray?
Thank you. That is cool. The preview renderer uses both of my video cards and a bit of my processor, so it doesn't even flinch when I put 10 people fully clothed with a bunch of props attached to them. I did use I-ray for this scene along with an HDRI from my own collection. Although I had to spend a lot of time adjusting the materials on Dusk's cloak for some reason.
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
@Hornet3d Reallusion claims their I-ray plugin renders faster in iClone and CC3 than it does in DS. At least in my experience, HDRI lighting in DS and iClone look much better and realistic than it does in Poser. I think it might be because Poser doesn't use real world scale, but who knows? One thing I enjoy in iClone is how easy it is to build huge environments to place characters into. Poser performance suffers with this because it wasn't designed for that. It was meant to render a single character, and it shows. First thing SMS added to Poser was a memory manager, so it could handle more than just a single character, but I guess performance still suffers. I suppose a program has to be built for that.

Here I have mixed Dawn body with AyaneDoll's head and came up with this. Rendered in Poser with Superfly. Used EZDome3's shadow catcher, and what do you know - this time it has worked! :) Had to use a rather low camera lens size to match the HDRI backdrop the best I could, which ended up adding more perspective distortion than I would like.

Outfit is from A4, and it has basically fell apart when refitted to Dawn. Each part is separate and unwelded, so holes opened everywhere. But nothing the awesome Morphing Tool couldn't fix. ^____^

AyaneDawn_1200.jpg
 

Hornet3d

Distinguished
@Hornet3d Reallusion claims their I-ray plugin renders faster in iClone and CC3 than it does in DS. At least in my experience, HDRI lighting in DS and iClone look much better and realistic than it does in Poser. I think it might be because Poser doesn't use real world scale, but who knows? One thing I enjoy in iClone is how easy it is to build huge environments to place characters into. Poser performance suffers with this because it wasn't designed for that. It was meant to render a single character, and it shows. First thing SMS added to Poser was a memory manager, so it could handle more than just a single character, but I guess performance still suffers. I suppose a program has to be built for that.

Here I have mixed Dawn body with AyaneDoll's head and came up with this. Rendered in Poser with Superfly. Used EZDome3's shadow catcher, and what do you know - this time it has worked! :) Had to use a rather low camera lens size to match the HDRI backdrop the best I could, which ended up adding more perspective distortion than I would like.

Outfit is from A4, and it has basically fell apart when refitted to Dawn. Each part is separate and unwelded, so holes opened everywhere. But nothing the awesome Morphing Tool couldn't fix. ^____^

View attachment 49427

I have it on the list to have a look at iClone but something always seems to get in the way, at the moment I am still trying to get my head around Superfly and also using the new version of Vue. I am certainly impressed with the way iClone appears to handle multiple figure scenes.
 
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Hornet3d

Distinguished
The bike had been quite a find and one Caoimhe never tired of riding though her opportunities to do so were rare. It was one hell of a beast and she loved the unsophisticated, often raw, way that it performed, difficult to control at the best of times but so very rewarding when she managed to rise to the challenge. The bike was so totally different from the refined safety conscious, almost sterile nature of riding a bike of her time. She regretted that she had, so far, been unable to find a riders suit that fitted the retro nature of the bike but that was not going to stop her having fun. She stopped momentarily to take a rest from the concentration and effort needed to navigate the trail, taking the time to take in the view afforded to her as she did so.

Taming the beast HW.jpg
 

Ken1171

Renowned
Contributing Artist
Go iClone! ^__^

I am still impressed (and surprised) by how far iClone has gone just in the last 2 versions. The next CC3 update will bring even more features. :)
 
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