I'd like to believe most of us DS users aren't that petty! Personally, I can completely understand that people have their preferred platforms and don't want to completely relearn the wheel just to use both solely for the creation of their products across platforms. It can be frustrating when I see something I really love that's Poser-only, but I don't blame the VENDOR for that for sure. If I like the product enough, I often buy it anyway in the hopes of being able to convert it myself, because, as James R. said, it's all about the art!
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Should you charge extra for that?
- Thread starter eclark1894
- Start date
Hornet3d
Wise
Whenever I see a vendor only makes a product for one software I just assume that they only use that software. I maybe have different views on vendors who used to provide for both softwares and now only support one because clearly they are skilled in both, it is still their choice of course, but I don't think you can blame the customers left out for feeling abandoned, particularly if they have purchased from that vendor on a regular basis. Having said that I have no ill will towards them I just don't buy their products any more, why would I.
quietrob
Extraordinary
I would say I feel the same way however, I'll still go back and buy older stuff that I wanted-for Poser- but once I've gotten that item off my wishlist I'll look elsewhere. For instance, I want the Stonemason Hangar. The next half off sale, if it's still available and I can spare the ruples I'll get it. But as much as I want the other Stonemason stuff, the newer stuff, I won't. Still, no blacklisting. The day they come back to the Poser fold, I'll be there.
Bonnie2001
Extraordinary
That to me seems like a perfect solution.
Hornet3d
Wise
We have like minds in many ways I had about four of his products in my wishlist for ages, older Poser stuff, and in December they were 40% off, but Daz was adding a further 25% off so quite a saving. I did the same with other vendors during the later half of last year but my wishlist is now empty. Unless new Poser content becomes available it will remain empty but then I already know there are a few products in the pipeline here that I want to buy so my content will still grow. No blacklisting, just a preference to spend here if I can purely because this is where I feel most at home.
eclark1894
Visionary
No one is being blacklisted. Geez!
I've just been through this thread and edited and/or deleted certain posts (something I do NOT like to have to do) because we (HiveWire) do not condone what is being shared.
The original topic/question is a good one and your feedback brings up lots of great points. I would love to see it continue.
However ... I agree with what tparo has said here. We can have discussions about things that have been said or done with naming names and calling people out.
So, please carry on without the references to one specific vendor.
Hornet3d
Wise
I've just been through this thread and edited and/or deleted certain posts (something I do NOT like to have to do) because we (HiveWire) do not condone what is being shared.
The original topic/question is a good one and your feedback brings up lots of great points. I would love to see it continue.
However ... I agree with what tparo has said here. We can have discussions about things that have been said or done with naming names and calling people out.
So, please carry on without the references to one specific vendor.
Understood, I will keep that in mind for other threads in the future.
I've just been through this thread and edited and/or deleted certain posts (something I do NOT like to have to do) because we (HiveWire) do not condone what is being shared.
The original topic/question is a good one and your feedback brings up lots of great points. I would love to see it continue.
However ... I agree with what tparo has said here. We can have discussions about things that have been said or done with naming names and calling people out.
So, please carry on without the references to one specific vendor.
Fair enough and understood.
eclark1894
Visionary
Is it inappropriate to ask your opinion on what you thought were the great points?I've just been through this thread and edited and/or deleted certain posts (something I do NOT like to have to do) because we (HiveWire) do not condone what is being shared.
The original topic/question is a good one and your feedback brings up lots of great points. I would love to see it continue.
However ... I agree with what tparo has said here. We can have discussions about things that have been said or done with naming names and calling people out.
So, please carry on without the references to one specific vendor.
Not inappropriate at all.
The question relates to whether products converted from one software platform to another should be priced higher. Points have been argued on both sides. It all comes down to how the customer feels in the end, which was highlighted by the parts of this thread that were removed. Certain customers were offended by the actions of certain vendors and adjusted their buying decisions in kind. It's a valid point.
We (HiveWire) develop products for both software platforms and we price them as though they were only developed for one. It's a single product. The likelihood of the Poser user ever using the DS version of the product is small and vice versa. We take that into account. To the customer it's not like they are getting TWO products at all.
Early on we had some CAs creating for one program and then a month later added the same product for the other program. Value Stacks seem the perfect way to offer these products. We feel that the combined price of an item that is sold separately but packed in a Value Stack should be the same or only slightly higher than one item alone. There are FEW customers who will want both.
I personally have always developed for both programs - I started in Poser only but once Daz Studio became viable (around DS 3) I began adding DS support to every product. It may seem like the customer is getting one item for free but the way I look at it is, I am supplying something they can use not matter what software platform they use AND if something happens and that customer can no longer use one software platform, at least they still have content for the other platform - meaning all of the money they have invested is not wasted.
The question relates to whether products converted from one software platform to another should be priced higher. Points have been argued on both sides. It all comes down to how the customer feels in the end, which was highlighted by the parts of this thread that were removed. Certain customers were offended by the actions of certain vendors and adjusted their buying decisions in kind. It's a valid point.
We (HiveWire) develop products for both software platforms and we price them as though they were only developed for one. It's a single product. The likelihood of the Poser user ever using the DS version of the product is small and vice versa. We take that into account. To the customer it's not like they are getting TWO products at all.
Early on we had some CAs creating for one program and then a month later added the same product for the other program. Value Stacks seem the perfect way to offer these products. We feel that the combined price of an item that is sold separately but packed in a Value Stack should be the same or only slightly higher than one item alone. There are FEW customers who will want both.
I personally have always developed for both programs - I started in Poser only but once Daz Studio became viable (around DS 3) I began adding DS support to every product. It may seem like the customer is getting one item for free but the way I look at it is, I am supplying something they can use not matter what software platform they use AND if something happens and that customer can no longer use one software platform, at least they still have content for the other platform - meaning all of the money they have invested is not wasted.
eclark1894
Visionary
If I might respond then, I'm not advocating that anyone charge more for one version over another. BUT, I am NOT a developer of products for both apps. That doesn't mean that if I can, I won't create for both, but I'm not going to lie, for me to attempt to make a second version of a product, it would be a significant investment of my time and effort, plus while I'm doing that I won't be working on products for my primary app. Now, that said, I'd definitely try to consolidate my work to keep that effort at a minimum. AND if I plan to have two versions of the product from the get-go, I'd probably create the DS version first, (since that's not MY primary app), and converting that to Poser would be trivial compared to the other way around. If anyone has followed my Dawn House (I swear I'm finishing that this year) and Stable threads they've seen that I do ask questions about DS. Razor 42, Pendraia and Seliah, have been very helpful, and I greatly appreciate that help. I think Tparo characterized that as me charging users for me to learn the app. I suppose it's true, but I also look at it as away for me to recoup a one-time investment cost.
You don't have to create two versions. You can do whatever works best for you. One option might be to team up with someone who can do the DS stuff for you. You could offer them a % of the DS product as compensation.
However, I don't think or feel that it's wise to ask more $ for the DS version than the Poser version. Yes, your time investment is a factor but you must invest time no matter what you do - even if you stay with just Poser. If it takes you a year to learn how to model a cube or 5 minutes to learn how to model a cube, the cube final product should still be priced comparable to what it is and not how long it took you model it. We all have time investments and learning curves that make us better at what we do overall. At some point, when you are comfortable with all aspects of creating, you will see that time investment shift into other areas.
However, I don't think or feel that it's wise to ask more $ for the DS version than the Poser version. Yes, your time investment is a factor but you must invest time no matter what you do - even if you stay with just Poser. If it takes you a year to learn how to model a cube or 5 minutes to learn how to model a cube, the cube final product should still be priced comparable to what it is and not how long it took you model it. We all have time investments and learning curves that make us better at what we do overall. At some point, when you are comfortable with all aspects of creating, you will see that time investment shift into other areas.
eclark1894
Visionary
Well, there was the option to just spread the cost between both versions, but that feels unfair to the Poser users. So if I keep the cost the same then sounds like my only option is to eat the cost, or just not create a second version.
D
Deleted member 325
Guest
The reason I do not create or support DS is I do not use it - at all. While it is known I bear ill-will to Daz3D, I have nothing against the majority of users of DS - people use software they feel comfortable with. As I do not and will not use DS, I can not develop for it.
If I did, it would likely be easy enough for me to run my poses through testing in DS to insure compatibility in both. Poses are a little different from textures or fully rigged figures however.
I have seen it mentioned that "The Geometry and textures are the hard work" or "The bulk of the work" as someone who has dabbled in all aspects of 3D I would disagree. While yes, the main geometry files and texture maps can be used cross platform, setting up optimized materials is also a fair bit of work and testing, and rigging is a lot of very tedious work (especially if adding bells and whistles like ERC code). These can equally eat up as much time and effort as creating the mesh - depending on how far and detailed you go with both. Since DS and Poser no longer use compatible rigging and have never had fully compatible material setups, then it is essentially almost twice the work to make4 for both (let's say about 1.75 times as much).
I get why some vendors do not want to, and others feel a separate version should be sold separately I honestly prefer separate version rather than one higher priced version for both. I do not feel that if 2 versions are being sold one should be more costly than the other, unless it features something special or unique the other does not. This is an unfair pricing practice to users of one software and can quickly generate ill will.
The benefits of making a product compatible in multiple softwares is that you will get sales for it for both software you may not otherwise get - that is the reward itself.
If I did, it would likely be easy enough for me to run my poses through testing in DS to insure compatibility in both. Poses are a little different from textures or fully rigged figures however.
I have seen it mentioned that "The Geometry and textures are the hard work" or "The bulk of the work" as someone who has dabbled in all aspects of 3D I would disagree. While yes, the main geometry files and texture maps can be used cross platform, setting up optimized materials is also a fair bit of work and testing, and rigging is a lot of very tedious work (especially if adding bells and whistles like ERC code). These can equally eat up as much time and effort as creating the mesh - depending on how far and detailed you go with both. Since DS and Poser no longer use compatible rigging and have never had fully compatible material setups, then it is essentially almost twice the work to make4 for both (let's say about 1.75 times as much).
I get why some vendors do not want to, and others feel a separate version should be sold separately I honestly prefer separate version rather than one higher priced version for both. I do not feel that if 2 versions are being sold one should be more costly than the other, unless it features something special or unique the other does not. This is an unfair pricing practice to users of one software and can quickly generate ill will.
The benefits of making a product compatible in multiple softwares is that you will get sales for it for both software you may not otherwise get - that is the reward itself.
I agree that pricing one version higher than the other would likely generate ill-will toward the vendor, and don't think it's a good practice. As a customer, it would make me think twice about buying.
As a Poser and DS user, I personally like things that are for both programs in one, and would not pay a big premium to get both separately. Again, as a customer, I see it as better value if a product is for both and if it's for all render engines.
Be aware, there is no requirement that one creates for both Poser and DS at HiveWire - we have many CAs who, for whatever reason(s), create for one or the other. There will, of course, be customers who want the version you don't make. But I think "expecting" or "demanding" people create for both programs is unreasonable, as it is to "expect" or "demand" that they make everything compatible with all render engines.
As a Poser and DS user, I personally like things that are for both programs in one, and would not pay a big premium to get both separately. Again, as a customer, I see it as better value if a product is for both and if it's for all render engines.
Be aware, there is no requirement that one creates for both Poser and DS at HiveWire - we have many CAs who, for whatever reason(s), create for one or the other. There will, of course, be customers who want the version you don't make
. But I think "expecting" or "demanding" people create for both programs is unreasonable, as it is to "expect" or "demand" that they make everything compatible with all render engines.eclark1894
Visionary
Okay, I feel that's a two way street. I've already explained that I'm only pricing it higher because otherwise I wouldn't have made it at all. MY personal feeling about it is that I'm going the extra mile to make it a product you CAN use. Like you said I didn't have to do it at all. And yeah, I'm charging a little more for the extra effort. But if that's the way I'd be rewarded for going that extra mile, you won't see that effort again.
P.S.: I should add, I'm not addressing you directly, Alisa. Just any customer who has a problem with it and wants to cop a 'tude about the extra price.
That's your choice to make, Earl. You are "being rewarded" by someone purchasing a product they otherwise would not have purchased. It's a Sale vs. No Sale.
1. You create for Poser only and your customers are only Poser users.
2. You create for Daz Studio, too and you expand your customer base and have a better chance of getting a return on your time investment.
Still, it's your choice to make.
1. You create for Poser only and your customers are only Poser users.
2. You create for Daz Studio, too and you expand your customer base and have a better chance of getting a return on your time investment.
Still, it's your choice to make.