Should you charge extra for that?

[eclark1894]

Just out of curiosity, I'm asking a two-fold question... If you make a product for one program, like Poser, but it doesn't work in Studio, should we be allowed to charge more to make a product work in another program? and are we allowed to charge more here at Hivewire? I'm not talking about an exorbitant amount. But if I made a dining room set for Poser and then I converted everything to .duf format for so it would work in Studio, is it wrong for me to charge, say, an extra five or ten dollars for having to convert the dining room set to .duf?

I'd like to hear your opinion. Is it a good idea, or bad? Would it increase the likelihood of vendors creating products in both formats? Inquiring , but crazy, minds want to know!

 

[Janet]

I thought about that and decided that since the end user is going to only use it in one program why charge more?

 

[eclark1894]

I thought about that and decided that since the end user is going to only use it in one program why charge more?

Okay, I get your point, but what I'm saying is that you're making a product for ONE program. Let's say, Studio. Now, you're finished and you can package it up, but then you decide, why not go ahead and create a version for Poser? Well, at that point, you're now doing Xtra work, so shouldn't you be compensated for the extra effort you're putting in?

 

[Janet]

No. What it means is more people will buy the product thus worth the work.

 

[eclark1894]

No. What it means is more people will buy the product thus worth the work.

Well, I do disagree, but would still like to hear what others think.

 

[tparo]

It's usually a lot more work to create for both programs and so I totally understand someone considering increasing the price of the item to incorporate the cost of the extra work.
But the problem I have as a customer is that I have to consider price when I'm purchasing something and the extra cost because it can be used in a program I hardly use isn't something that is going to encourage me to buy; so two separate packages may be a different way to go.

 

[eclark1894]

It's usually a lot more work to create for both programs and so I totally understand someone considering increasing the price of the item to incorporate the cost of the extra work.
But the problem I have as a customer is that I have to consider price when I'm purchasing something and the extra cost because it can be used in a program I hardly use isn't something that is going to encourage me to buy; so two separate packages may be a different way to go.

Sounds good. I was actually thinking about having two versions of a product in separate packages. And I'm not talking about trying to gouge anyone price-wise. I think the price should be in line with the extra amount of work a creator might incur creating the second version. So, say the Poser version might be $20 and the DS version would be $25.

 

[tparo]

Sounds good. I was actually thinking about having two versions of a product in separate packages. And I'm not talking about trying to gouge anyone price-wise. I think the price should be in line with the extra amount of work a creator might incur creating the second version. So, say the Poser version might be $20 and the DS version would be $25.

I'm not quite sure I understand your reasoning here, there is no way I would pay more for a DS version than I would have to for the Poser version,(unless the DS version had more options)it would make me feel the vendor was picking on me for using one particular program.
The reason the DS version (I'm presuming here) would take you longer is because you are less familiar with DS so you would be learning as you go along; which would kinda imply that beginners could charge more than veterans for products.
or do you feel you would sell less DS versions than poser so need to charge a higher price?

 

[phdubrov]

I don't know how it should be. I see vendors go both ways here and at Rendo. But here we have Value Stacks, the third option. 2 separate, fully-working packages, united in a value stack with a big discount. With final price, say, 120-150% of the individual packages.
And yes, if the packages have same options they should have same price.

 

[eclark1894]

I'm not quite sure I understand your reasoning here, there is no way I would pay more for a DS version than I would have to for the Poser version,(unless the DS version had more options)it would make me feel the vendor was picking on me for using one particular program.
The reason the DS version (I'm presuming here) would take you longer is because you are less familiar with DS so you would be learning as you go along; which would kinda imply that beginners could charge more than veterans for products.
or do you feel you would sell less DS versions than poser so need to charge a higher price?

Even if that were the case, you don't think that vendor should be compensated for the extra time and effort it takes him to create the product? That's not much different than a Mom and Pop store having to charge more for a product you can buy a lot cheaper in Walmart. And, assuming it a product you really want, and can't find anywhere else, wouldn't that justify the added expense? Or, you could buy the Poser version and make it work in DS, yourself, if you don't want to spend the extra money.

BTW, if we were talking a significant price increase, and depending on how much I wanted the product, I would probably opt for making the product work myself. So I'm looking at the vendor's own desire of wanting to sell more product to new customers to keep the price increase reasonable.

 

[tparo]

But you would be compensated for your extra time, I (for example) would be buying the product which if there was only a Poser version I would not be buying, and I'm only buying the DS version. By charging more for the DS version you are penalising your DS customers, does it take longer to make a DS version than a Poser version ( presuming you know both programs as well as each other)
I don't as a rule buy Poser products and make them work, I find a DS product.

 

[eclark1894]

I

But you would be compensated for your extra time, I (for example) would be buying the product which if there was only a Poser version I would not be buying, and I'm only buying the DS version. By charging more for the DS version you are penalising your DS customers, does it take longer to make a DS version than a Poser version ( presuming you know both programs as well as each other)
I don't as a rule buy Poser products and make them work, I find a DS product.

I can see where you're coming from and if I were just starting out, bringing the product from my modeling program to either program, Poser or DS, I'd probably agree with you and charge the same price for both versions. But, if I've already finished say the Poser version, and decided to continue to a DS version, then seems my options are to either charge extra to compensate myself for the extra work, after all there's no guarantee that doing another version of the product will even sell, or to just not bother doing an alternate version of the product at all.

 

[phdubrov]

I can see where you're coming from and if I were just starting out, bringing the product from my modeling program to either program, Poser or DS, I'd probably agree with you and charge the same price for both versions. But, if I've already finished say the Poser version, and decided to continue to a DS version, then seems my options are to either charge extra to compensate myself for the extra work, after all there's no guarantee that doing another version of the product will even sell, or to just not bother doing an alternate version of the product at all.

Honestly, don't get this logic. If new version will contain both Poser and DS versions, then yes, the bigger price is honest. (Pure IMHO: marketing wise, it is so for low-selling products. I think there is a reason why HW's and Ken's products are monolithic and undergo major free upgrades.) If the new version is pure DS with exactly same options... You probably would have a bad customers reaction.

 

[Willowisp]

Just my two cents..

The way I see it, if you add DS support on top of a Poser product, then yes, charging extra would make sense. But, if you decide to split them in two packages, then they are two different products and should cost the same if they have the same features. It's like making a bedroom set and a bathroom set, would you charge extra for the bathroom set because you already spent time on the bedroom set? No, they are two different products, just like the Poser and DS version of a set. If anything, you will spend less time on the DS set because you already have the geometry done. Ignore potential sales, see them as different sets.

 

[Hornet3d]

I think I agree that a DS product and a Poser product should be the same price assuming that the content is the same in both programs. I know there are some vendors that charge for iRAY shaders for some of their content but I think that is slightly different in that the original product works in both DS and Poser and I think what they are doing is going back to update their products for the new render engine. This would seem fair in that there is extra work and the buyer can decide if he wants to pay the extra to work in iRAY.

I can see the argument that there is more work for the vendor and the counter argument that in doing so they are selling to more people. A third argument is that if they decide not to do the work and then either DS or Poser users do not have the option to buy and thus are deprived of some good content. There are certainly some items here at Hivewire that I would have purchased for use in Poser but are DS only, which I suppose means the vendor is losing sales by not doing the extra work, but then that is their choice.

I am pretty sure that different prices for the same product based on which software they are used in will upset a lot of people. I remember a few years ago when another company gave away 'free' content if you paid to be a member of their club, when the first product turned out to be DS only there were some very angry people and, in fairness a lot of DS users posted that they also thought it was unfair on Poser members. Based upon that I don't think different prices would be acceptable to some.

 

[StudioMartillo]

I was thinking about this just recently.
It occurred to me that a lot of newer products that I look at have different versions for Poser or DS.
Even though I have paid for one product, it is usually possible to download two different products, because both versions are available.
But if the product is only for DS it's of no use to people who have only Poser.
Would someone who is familiar with only one of the apps be inclined to think they could convert something of unknown characteristics?
Probably not.
So that's a hard question.
If it was possible to sell each version separately, as unique products, that would be more fair to the vendor.
By producing both versions, as others have said, you have more potential sales. That makes offering both versions worth the effort.
But being required to deliver two versions for one price is unfair to the vendor.
Maybe the same thing could apply to PC or Mac versions.
But maybe that seems like too much trouble to the broker.

 

[Glitterati3D]

This is one of the reasons I ask a gifted DS user to do my DS conversions. I don't know DS since version 4.0 and it would not be fair of me to set a price for those products. I have no idea the amount of work and skill required to complete the project, so I have no reason to be involved in the pricing. I send my object files, painted texture files, and morph object files to the person doing the converting and that's the end of my involvement with a DS product, including the sales generated for that product. DS sales go entirely to the artist doing the conversion of my products.

I know Poser, not DS and therefore don't feel that I could fairly price a DS product.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

Even though I don't use DS, I'm of the same thought that pricing for a DS version shouldn't cost more than the Poser version. Just as I wouldn't be happy if a product was originally DS and then converted to Poser. I wouldn't pay more for the Poser version.

Just my two cents..

The way I see it, if you add DS support on top of a Poser product, then yes, charging extra would make sense. But, if you decide to split them in two packages, then they are two different products and should cost the same if they have the same features. It's like making a bedroom set and a bathroom set, would you charge extra for the bathroom set because you already spent time on the bedroom set? No, they are two different products, just like the Poser and DS version of a set. If anything, you will spend less time on the DS set because you already have the geometry done. Ignore potential sales, see them as different sets.

Exactly so. If you already created the Poser product and are now converting it to DS, it doesn't really seem right to charge more. Not when you've already created the geometry and texture files. Since you're actually cutting out that time and effort with the converted product, perhaps the cost of the DS version should actually be less.

Seriously though ... charging for the effort and time it took to produce a product doesn't really work for this market. Not unless you're comfortable with charging something like a fraction of a penny an hour.

I base my prices on what's IN the product, not the effort and time it took to produce the product. In the scenario of a completed Poser product and a later DS conversion (or releasing separate DS and Poser versions at the same time), I would price the DS product and the Poser product the same.

You could think of it in another way. If you sell a product for Poser with FireFly materials, would you then charge more for a SuperFly version of that same product? After all, it takes a lot of work to "convert" that FireFly product to SuperFly. Same thinking as the Poser to DS conversion, but I suspect you'd find you actually lose customers.

Possibly not just for that product either. You might well end up on a customer's Do Not Buy blacklist because of that marketing strategy. People really do not like to feel we are being taken advantage of or being cheated.

 

[Hornet3d]

This is one of the reasons I ask a gifted DS user to do my DS conversions. I don't know DS since version 4.0 and it would not be fair of me to set a price for those products. I have no idea the amount of work and skill required to complete the project, so I have no reason to be involved in the pricing. I send my object files, painted texture files, and morph object files to the person doing the converting and that's the end of my involvement with a DS product, including the sales generated for that product. DS sales go entirely to the artist doing the conversion of my products.

I know Poser, not DS and therefore don't feel that I could fairly price a DS product.

That seems fair to me although, from looking at your store, where there is both versions of a product they are priced the same. It does raise another question though, taking the scenario you have given and extending it a bit, what if the poser version is sold by you in one marketplace and the Daz version is sold in another marketplace the prices may well be different. I am not sure how customers would feel about this but it seems logical to me.

 

[Hornet3d]

Even though I don't use DS, I'm of the same thought that pricing for a DS version shouldn't cost more than the Poser version. Just as I wouldn't be happy if a product was originally DS and then converted to Poser. I wouldn't pay more for the Poser version.



Exactly so. If you already created the Poser product and are now converting it to DS, it doesn't really seem right to charge more. Not when you've already created the geometry and texture files. Since you're actually cutting out that time and effort with the converted product, perhaps the cost of the DS version should actually be less.

Seriously though ... charging for the effort and time it took to produce a product doesn't really work for this market. Not unless you're comfortable with charging something like a fraction of a penny an hour.

I base my prices on what's IN the product, not the effort and time it took to produce the product. In the scenario of a completed Poser product and a later DS conversion (or releasing separate DS and Poser versions at the same time), I would price the DS product and the Poser product the same.

You could think of it in another way. If you sell a product for Poser with FireFly materials, would you then charge more for a SuperFly version of that same product? After all, it takes a lot of work to "convert" that FireFly product to SuperFly. Same thinking as the Poser to DS conversion, but I suspect you'd find you actually lose customers.

Possibly not just for that product either. You might well end up on a customer's Do Not Buy blacklist because of that marketing strategy. People really do not like to feel we are being taken advantage of or being cheated.

That actually provides another dimension or to to this discussion. For a start most customers who have been in the hobby for a while know that the cost of a given item does not reflect the time and effort put into making the product. Furthermore, many buying decisions are not based on what is a fair price but on to different factors such as, can I afford it and is it value for money (or put another way, can I get something of more use to me if I spend the same money elsewhere).

I think your last point is not only valid but something often forgotten, in the same way we all have favorite vendors most of us have a version of a blacklist, somewhere where we do not shop or vendors we don't buy from. Not only that but the transition from the whitelist to blacklist can be transversed quite easily, moving in the other direction is nigh on impossible.