Post Your Dawn Renders at the New SMS Dawn Thread!

Discussion in 'It's About the Art!' started by Ken1171, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. ShvrDavid

    ShvrDavid Inspired

    Your welcome.

    To me Poser isn't about one figure, its about using whatever figure you want to.
    The same can be said about content in any 3D program, use or create whatever you want too.
    Many times you see people getting caught up in trying to push an opinion instead of respecting others differences in opinion in the first place.

    I saw what went on at Runtime, I was moderating it at the time.
    I posted renders of a lot of figures including Dawn there as well.
    I'm not seeing an anti Dawn thing at the SM forums.
    If we ignore the agendas others try to push, there really isn't an issue.
    When someone pushes an agenda back, feathers get ruffled...

    Lets face it. There will always be new figures that pop up. People that support them, and people that don't.
    Just about every figure gets a group of people that follow and support it.
    The ones that stand out are the ones that push an agenda, one way or the other.

    The difference is the people. The ones you respond to, and the ones you don't.
  2. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    Indeed people tend to have strong opinions about figures at the SMS forums, and isolate themselves into ghettos around it. But like you, I believe the more figures, the more options we have, and therefore, the better. I have store products for Dawn, Dusk, Pauline, AnimeDoll, NearMe, and would even have one for PE if I could manage to finish the rigging. I would support all Poser figures if I could, because figure variety is a good thing. For petty reasons, new figures can become a reason for disputes and division instead of joy.

    But now, after all these years, Dawn finally has her own render thread at SMS, and I am positive the guys will respect the cease fire and just enjoy themselves with what we have. The Poser community needs this.
    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  3. Hornet3d

    Hornet3d Distinguished


    I could not agree more with the idea the more figures there are the better for Poser but more power to you for getting the message across to SMS. I don't really see Dawn as competition to Pauline in the sense that if you're like me and use Dawn as the go to figure I am unlikely to change and those that use multiple figures are going to love having Pauline as another figure.

    I can see the benefit of a Dusk thread but the Dawn thread is at least starting to give exposure to the whole Hivewire family, not just Dawn that can only be a plus to both Hivewire and SMS.
  4. Satira Capriccio

    Satira Capriccio Distinguished CV-BEE Contributing Artist

    I posted one with Dusk in addition to those with Dawn. But then ... Q'nika and Ambassador Q'lln are a set, and it just didn't seem right to show one without the other.
    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  5. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    I basically haven't used other figures after adopting Dawn back in 2013, but I didn't mind supporting Pauline when she came out, and then [I tried] PE when she was released. I don't use these figures, but supporting them contributes for them staying around. It's not about me, but to other people that may want other figures, since I wouldn't be happy if I had to choose Dawn because there was nothing else to pick from. Well, actually there was nothing else when I picked Dawn, but lucky me I liked her even before she was released. In my particular case, it wasn't just the figure, but the idea of Chris starting HW to bring back what we used to have before the DAZ split. Well, and of course, because it was Chris and Paul making the figures. Dawn got a bumpy start, but nothing that the SE version couldn't strait up. After all, V4 was my most used figure, and I don't remember EVER using the original texture (with the ugly purple underwear). LOL

    @Satira Capriccio As long as Dawn is in the picture, I see nothing wrong with including Dusk on it. It's still on topic! ;)
    Dakorillon (IMArts) and Hornet3d like this.
  6. Satira Capriccio

    Satira Capriccio Distinguished CV-BEE Contributing Artist

    Nope. Dawn isn't in the picture. But both are in the same post!
    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  7. Hornet3d

    Hornet3d Distinguished

    I liked the idea of Dawn but so many people were desperate for a new figure and there was so much going on at the time I think the expectations built to a point where no new figure could have met the expectation. I tried the original Dawn and was interested but not impressed and quickly moved back to V4. As you so rightly say Dawn SE put all that right and I quickly fell in love with the new figure, this despite the fact I was sort of book writing and I then had the task of redoing so many renders with the new heroine. I now use Dawn almost exclusively with the only exception being the very odd render with V4. That said I always have an interested in seeing what others are doing with their choice of figures be it Pauline, PE, Genesis and all the others, in fact I am often amazed at what artists can do using figures that are much older that V4.

    Like you, in all the years I used V4 I never used the default texture but that forced me to use other textures and learn to blend others so I had no complaints.
    Dakorillon (IMArts) and Ken1171 like this.
  8. Miss B

    Miss B Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time CV-BEE

    I have to agree, though I thought of adding Stephen, but thought I'd hold off, and wait a while. ;)
    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  9. Satira Capriccio

    Satira Capriccio Distinguished CV-BEE Contributing Artist

    I may be an oddity, but I found Dawn not only met, but exceeded my expectations on release. Dawn worked and worked incredibly well in Poser. She was a joy to work with. She posed well, and her mesh stood up even to extreme posing. In my opinion ... everything else would fall into place.

    Don't get me wrong. I would have liked more morphs initially. And, I'm not great at converting clothing from one figure to another, so using Dawn required that I create most of the clothing I used initially. Which ultimately, gave me opportunities I wouldn't otherwise have had.

    I absolutely understood the concern people expressed regarding the vast amount of content they'd accumulated over the years for V4, and it was something I too had to think about when considering whether Dawn would replace V4. But ... while I had invested way too much money in V4, the reality was there were few outfits I used repeatedly. Most clothing purchases I used once and never again. Same with character products. Most of those I also used once or twice, and never again. Even then, it was the textures I used rather than the character morphs. Once I started thinking in terms of what I actually used from my extensive V4 library, rather than how much I spent to accumulate that library of seldom used products or how big that library was, that extensive library was no longer quite so extensive. With an extensive library no longer a consideration, I was able to look at Dawn and how well she worked for me and how easy she was to work with compared to V4 and Genesis.

    The way I saw it ... my options were
    • Continue to use V4, an out of date figure which was native to Poser, but required numerous fixes every time I used her.
      However, V4 was no longer supported by DAZ and an increasing number of vendors were discontinuing support of V4.
      Consequently, new products for V4 that appealed to me were limited and getting more so every month.

    • Continue to try to use Genesis, a figure which was not native to Poser and therefore required workarounds to get it into Poser.
      There was a huge amount of support by vendors, and the amount of content released for Genesis just kept increasing.
      However, DSON broke the Poser library every time I used it, so Genesis and all that content weren't usable by me.

    • Switch to Dawn, an up to date figure native to Poser, but there were a limited number of morphs and clothing available initially.
      However, Dawn had limited to no support outside HiveWire, and it was a questionable whether enough vendors would support Dawn.
    Given how I require a plethora of morphs to be able to create a wide variety of characters, you'd think I'd have found it devastating when Dawn didn't initially have ALL the morphs V4 had accumulated over the years. Instead, I pushed Dawn's initial morphs as much as possible until we got more morphs to play with.

    After Dawn's release in August 2013, the only time I went back to V4 was to finish scenes I'd started before Dawn's release.
  10. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    Oh I see. As long as people don't complain... Remember Dawn and Dusk are actually the same mesh! LOL

    I remember going back and forth between Dawn and V4 at the beginning, first because of the lack of morphs/clothing, and second because I was still learning how to use the figure. But the moment I started to push character creations and body types to extremes with Dawn, the differences were crystal clear. Things that V4 wouldn't survive or still be able to pose afterwards. I could do with Dawn things I could only hope for with V4. There was no way back. Dawn wasn't perfect, but V4 was waaay worse. It wasn't a difficult decision. I never liked the original texture, and I even think the opposition has capitalized on it, but again, so was the original V4 texture, and nobody crucified her for it. ;)

    The ironic side of Dawn was that people were asking for DAZ figures in Poser, when Dawn had everything Genesis had, but natively in Poser. The DS version was as TriAx figure as Genesis, and the Poser version shared the same features, except for those that are native to DS, which have nothing to do with the figure. This is what immediately attracted me to Dawn. HW was offering exactly what people wanted, but they simply failed to see it for what she was. In good part, I remember a huge amount of misinformation everywhere, like Dawn only worked in Poser, or that she was a DS-only figure, that she used the same rigging as V4, or even that she was a V4 clone. You name it. A lot of people gave up before trying because of such things. Didn't work on me, though, since I was already using her from the very beginning, and I knew that was all BS. It only affected those who didn't know any better. Once people form a strong opinion based on somebody else's, the herd behavior kicks in.

    I would go as far as to claim that I was flamed at my DA gallery several times by the opposition, simply because they had so much to claim against Dawn. When I asked if they ever used her, they said no. Their excuse was that "everybody knows" those things. Apparently everybody knows nothing. They didn't believe it even when I show it to them in the real world through my gallery. They claimed I have "special abilities", and that it would look bad if anybody else tried. That's how far they would go to justify somebody else's opinion. I wish I had people defending ME with that energy! HAHA
    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  11. Satira Capriccio

    Satira Capriccio Distinguished CV-BEE Contributing Artist

    I'd originally had a comment in my post about Dawn's original skin being the only thing I disliked about Dawn. It was odd too because the vendor who did the original texture for Dawn generally does fabulous textures. I'd even purchased several of her merchant resource skins for V4 and loved them.

    The original skin didn't use Subsurface Scattering which makes a huge difference. Also ... there don't seem to be any maps other than the texture map, and the texture map is just plugged into the Diffuse_Color and Specular_Color nodes. Just no way a skin is going to look very good when it's just a single map plugged into the Diffuse and Specular nodes.

    I was glad when SE came with a new skin because it's simply lovely. But, one expects that from Virtual World.

    So ... here we have the three faces of Dawn :wink:
    Dawn original is in the middle, SE Pale is on the left (<), and Dawn Original (modified) is on the right (>).
    For Dawn Original (modified), I copied SE's material settings and applied them to Dawn O, and switched out the SE diffuse map with the original diffuse map.

    How could anyone not love Dawn SE?

    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  12. Miss B

    Miss B Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time CV-BEE

    Oh I did. I absolutely, positively, can't describe how much, I hated V4's original texture, with that butt ugly purple (knit?) bathing suit, and I was a V4 user for many years, and still use her now and then.
    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  13. Satira Capriccio

    Satira Capriccio Distinguished CV-BEE Contributing Artist

    Gotta admit, the first thing I did after loading V4 was to change the texture ... to anything else. I really hated that purple bikini ... even though I rather like purple.
  14. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    That was the thing when I first started using Dawn - first thing I did was to load another texture. I was one of the very first to purchase Texture Transformer, so I could reuse my V4 textures. When some claimed they didn't like Dawn because of the texture, that was the silliest thing ever. Just load another one, like we all did with V4! LOL
    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  15. Miss B

    Miss B Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time CV-BEE

    So do I, but really . . . it didn't look like a bathing suit. It looked like someone took a paint brush to her body parts. I like second skins, but that was just plain ridiculous.
  16. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    Maybe if the original Dawn texture has a ridiculous purple bikini painted on it, everything would had been different! LOL :roflmao:
    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  17. Satira Capriccio

    Satira Capriccio Distinguished CV-BEE Contributing Artist

    Oh true! Perhaps that was always the problem. No purple bikini.

    But then ... I did miss the lady parts initially ... even though I never did a render where one could see them. I blame it on Barbie.
    Dakorillon (IMArts) likes this.
  18. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    But V4 had none any as well, right?
  19. Miss B

    Miss B Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time CV-BEE

    I think only PE has those Ken. ;)
  20. Ken1171

    Ken1171 Distinguished Contributing Artist

    And yet, V4 was so popular, but Dawn was the culprit.

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