Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
I didn't say otherwise. I said I wouldn't pay the prices.
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Poser on borrowed time?
- Thread starter Dylan
- Start date
I didn't say otherwise. I said I wouldn't pay the prices.
Please could you direct me to the proof if its not hearsay.
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
Look for some Lyrra posts about vendor culling. Go to Connie's Facebook page. It's ALL out there if you care to look for it.
Just because people are saying it - especially disgruntled vendors - does not make it true, facebook posts are not proof.
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
OK, I have no intention of fighting with you about it. Your takeaway is different than mine, obviously.
I consider a first hand source credible.
I consider a first hand source credible.
eclark1894
Visionary
With all due respect to your POV, you calling her a "disgruntled vendor" is hearsay as well.
So I'd just like to add some of my thoughts to this initial topic, based on my experience and direct conversations that I've had.
I've spoken with Charles Taylor right after he was laid off at Smith Micro, along with their development team back before Thanksgiving of 2016.
I've had a lengthy phone conversation, followed up by emails with Larry Weinberg (the architect of Poser) at the beginning of this year.
I've talked directly by phone with a VP (won't mention his name here) at Smith Micro in January.
I've had various Skype meetings with others (won't mention their names either) at Smith Micro this year.
I mention Charles and Larry by name because they are no longer employed by Smith Micro.
I will say based on my conversations with these people that I'm deeply concerned about the future of Poser. I have more specific thoughts that I'll keep to myself, because I do wish the best for Poser, and want it to be successful. We support Poser and the large part of our customer base come from Poser users.
I believe that a course correction needs to take place with Poser in order for it to be successful and competitive. I spoke very directly to those currently involved with Poser about this. I even outlined my recipe for them to turn things around. They were very respectful and polite to what I had to say and share, based on my experience at DAZ, being their direct competitor. I'm not saying I'm the expert, but only shared my thoughts from my experience of being very successful at DAZ in growing a content business around a free software offering.
My feeling is that they should have reinvented themselves many, many years ago, but instead DAZ took the opportunity to drive hard to set a new software/content paradigm that Poser has not effectively reacted to.
It's evident to me at least, that those involved directly in the future of Poser have their backs against the wall, and some how need to pull out a miracle to turn things around before those that control its future decide it's a liability rather than an asset.
I've spoken with Charles Taylor right after he was laid off at Smith Micro, along with their development team back before Thanksgiving of 2016.
I've had a lengthy phone conversation, followed up by emails with Larry Weinberg (the architect of Poser) at the beginning of this year.
I've talked directly by phone with a VP (won't mention his name here) at Smith Micro in January.
I've had various Skype meetings with others (won't mention their names either) at Smith Micro this year.
I mention Charles and Larry by name because they are no longer employed by Smith Micro.
I will say based on my conversations with these people that I'm deeply concerned about the future of Poser. I have more specific thoughts that I'll keep to myself, because I do wish the best for Poser, and want it to be successful. We support Poser and the large part of our customer base come from Poser users.
I believe that a course correction needs to take place with Poser in order for it to be successful and competitive. I spoke very directly to those currently involved with Poser about this. I even outlined my recipe for them to turn things around. They were very respectful and polite to what I had to say and share, based on my experience at DAZ, being their direct competitor. I'm not saying I'm the expert, but only shared my thoughts from my experience of being very successful at DAZ in growing a content business around a free software offering.
My feeling is that they should have reinvented themselves many, many years ago, but instead DAZ took the opportunity to drive hard to set a new software/content paradigm that Poser has not effectively reacted to.
It's evident to me at least, that those involved directly in the future of Poser have their backs against the wall, and some how need to pull out a miracle to turn things around before those that control its future decide it's a liability rather than an asset.
eclark1894
Visionary
Good read Chris: I wanted to post this as it addresses my thoughts regarding Poser and how it can turn around it's current situation.
The following is from a thread at the SM forum. If I broke a rule, please delete this post and I humbly apologize. I may have to sentence myself to reviewing the TOS of this forum.
I said:
There's a thread over at Rendo that got me thinking about Poser's shrinking marketshare of the Poserverse. I kind of wanted to bring that topic to this forum in the faint hope that SOMEONE from SM would see it and react. Heck, right now, I'd settle for someone me telling to to go to hell... just so long as I'd know that someone was minding the store.
I'm not looking for ANY figure to revive Posers market share. Frankly, that's up to SM to turn around. Despite all the doomsaying for the last 8 years, Poser's still here and has a sizable user base. What SM NEEDS to do to revive Poser is to focus on and improve Poser's core feature sets. It needs to concentrate on the things it CAN do and do well, that Studio can't. And it should improve upon the features that it already has. In other words, Poser needs to get a little cutthroat. I'm not saying to be mean and try to put DAZ out of business. Frankly, that would be a major blunder on SM's part. They need DAZ more than DAZ needs them at the moment. And while figures seem to be the major point everyone seems to focus on, SM has already shown it has an amazingly low, almost bordering on non-existent, regard for making the effort to produce the type of figures that would get the community to sit up and take notice. If SM really wanted to put CP back in the retail game, I'd focus on the other aspects that renders feature. animatable props, environments, scenery and settings, etc.
I was asked what functionality I think they should improve that justify spending money over the free DAZ Studio and why a new user would try Poser:
I Said:
Things like the hair room, the Cloth Room, Animation, the morph brush, The set up Room rigging in general, things like that Mat. If just those features alone, are improved significantly, the users who still use Poser and even some of those who have left, will probably come back. Genesis 1-8 doesn't justify the reason everyone who left Poser did. And for those who did leave because of the price, well, you have to give them a reason to justify that price.
The following is from a thread at the SM forum. If I broke a rule, please delete this post and I humbly apologize. I may have to sentence myself to reviewing the TOS of this forum.
I said:
There's a thread over at Rendo that got me thinking about Poser's shrinking marketshare of the Poserverse. I kind of wanted to bring that topic to this forum in the faint hope that SOMEONE from SM would see it and react. Heck, right now, I'd settle for someone me telling to to go to hell... just so long as I'd know that someone was minding the store.
I'm not looking for ANY figure to revive Posers market share. Frankly, that's up to SM to turn around. Despite all the doomsaying for the last 8 years, Poser's still here and has a sizable user base. What SM NEEDS to do to revive Poser is to focus on and improve Poser's core feature sets. It needs to concentrate on the things it CAN do and do well, that Studio can't. And it should improve upon the features that it already has. In other words, Poser needs to get a little cutthroat. I'm not saying to be mean and try to put DAZ out of business. Frankly, that would be a major blunder on SM's part. They need DAZ more than DAZ needs them at the moment. And while figures seem to be the major point everyone seems to focus on, SM has already shown it has an amazingly low, almost bordering on non-existent, regard for making the effort to produce the type of figures that would get the community to sit up and take notice. If SM really wanted to put CP back in the retail game, I'd focus on the other aspects that renders feature. animatable props, environments, scenery and settings, etc.
I was asked what functionality I think they should improve that justify spending money over the free DAZ Studio and why a new user would try Poser:
I Said:
Things like the hair room, the Cloth Room, Animation, the morph brush, The set up Room rigging in general, things like that Mat. If just those features alone, are improved significantly, the users who still use Poser and even some of those who have left, will probably come back. Genesis 1-8 doesn't justify the reason everyone who left Poser did. And for those who did leave because of the price, well, you have to give them a reason to justify that price.
Earl, I just edited your post a bit to remove names and specific quotes from other people...I think I left what you are trying to convey 
Better to not post other peoples' posts elsewhere, I think (you could have linked to it, too, but I thought you wanted your comments here. Hope that's ok!
Better to not post other peoples' posts elsewhere, I think (you could have linked to it, too, but I thought you wanted your comments here. Hope that's ok!
Thanks for the comments Chris, as I'm glad to know you've been in touch with SM folks about the future of Poser.
My main concern is, SM has a large product catalog, but only 5 of those products are graphics related, Poser being the only 3D graphic product they sell. I'm just worried they might not feel it's necessary to keep selling Poser, as they probably have more revenue from their non-graphic related products.
Someone on the SM Poser forum mentioned in one of the threads that it may come down to SM transferring ownership of Poser to another entity, which has been done more than once in it's long run. I would like SM to continue offering Poser for a long time to come, but there's no guarantee it will, and then who knows what will happen to it. I don't necessarily update my software every time there's a new version, so if PP11 is the last Poser version I have access to, so be it. I won't stop using it just because it's no longer available, which could be the bottom line down the road, though I certainly hope NOT!!
My main concern is, SM has a large product catalog, but only 5 of those products are graphics related, Poser being the only 3D graphic product they sell. I'm just worried they might not feel it's necessary to keep selling Poser, as they probably have more revenue from their non-graphic related products.
Someone on the SM Poser forum mentioned in one of the threads that it may come down to SM transferring ownership of Poser to another entity, which has been done more than once in it's long run. I would like SM to continue offering Poser for a long time to come, but there's no guarantee it will, and then who knows what will happen to it. I don't necessarily update my software every time there's a new version, so if PP11 is the last Poser version I have access to, so be it. I won't stop using it just because it's no longer available, which could be the bottom line down the road, though I certainly hope NOT!!
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
I spoke with Rafael Torres, the new Product Manager, via email as well. And, though he asked me not to share it, I will say I am very encouraged by his answers and his attitude.
eclark1894
Visionary
Personally, I think Poser/SM's biggest holdback is their secretness. I can understand you not wanting to give your competition a heads up to what you're planning, but you need to let your customers know what's going on or they'll be more likely to go elsewhere.
No, Alisa, I don't mind at all. And thank you. i wasn't sure about linking to another forum, and I only included the other post for context.
No, Alisa, I don't mind at all. And thank you. i wasn't sure about linking to another forum, and I only included the other post for context.
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
Ahhhh, Earl, no one in corporate America operates like that. What you tell your customers, you tell your competition. We won't know a thing until it's near release.
StudioMartillo
Engaged
No money, no money, no money... who's to blame? It doesn't seem like a focus on any particular businesses' policies is going to answer the question. You hear, it's a slow economy, it's an economic downturn.. blah blah bla-a-a-a. What if it's a broken economy and some constrictions are causing all the money to back up in just a few places. The question to ask is 'where did the money go'. Isn't it all going to pile up and pile up until there's no way to hold it all in and it just comes tumbling out all over the place? What if money isn't even real and it's just a bunch of numbers? Does that mean powerful computers can collect it all up into infinity?
I know this seems like going way OT, but it isn't. When lot's of people have money to spend you can sell just about anything. Not so long ago things were just that way. So these types of commerce could do well, because they're lots of fun, but depend on disposable income. No disposable income and the fun get's set aside.
Don't be too quick to lay blame on the victims.
I know this seems like going way OT, but it isn't. When lot's of people have money to spend you can sell just about anything. Not so long ago things were just that way. So these types of commerce could do well, because they're lots of fun, but depend on disposable income. No disposable income and the fun get's set aside.
Don't be too quick to lay blame on the victims.
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
Exactly......when it comes time to start cutting back expenses, the first thing cut is hobbies. Folks stop golfing, bowling, dance classes, etc. Right along with 3D hobbies.
And, in the US it's summer - no one is sitting in front of a computer waiting on a render to finish.
Wellll, that's exactly what I'm doing.
Relax Traci, I was just trying to lighten the mood.SM, I agree with you. I'm at a point in my life where, even though I have things I do out of the house, when I'm home, I'm sitting here in front of the computer, so why shouldn't I be working in 3D while I'm at it. Unlike some of my friends who only use the computer to read/write email or socialize on the social networks, I like to be accomplishing something, and 3D is my main outlet for that as I don't do much web design/development any more. I've got to have something to keep these hands busy or I'll go out of my mind, and the eyes aren't as good as they were 20 years ago when I was still able to do my knitting, crocheting, needlepoint and such.
Glitterati3D
Dances with Bees
Wellll, that's exactly what I'm doing.
ROFL, as am I...........but who says we have a life or a budget?
quietrob
Extraordinary
Starts the popcorn and joins Pen.
@Glitterati3D Everyone has a life, I don't know what kind, but we do. Um, What's a budget?