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Official Announcement: DAZ terminates agreement to publish HiveWire 3D animals!

Rabbitroo

Inspired
This event sadly confirms what I thought of DAZ some 7 years ago, shortly after Dan Farr left. I had almost thought they had turned over a new leaf when they started working with Chris again. Instead, I learned today that their petty, ruthless behavior continues undiluted. Sorry for Chris and the team, but at least they have revealed their true stripes sooner than later. I am disappointed that mistrust appears to have remained entirely justified.
-K
 

Lianam

Eager
Wow is all I can say. I have read some of the thread so far. I am really sorry it did not work out like all of you hoped, but then maybe it did too. :) I did not buy the big cat over there soo one day when the farm equipment quits sucking my cash up. haha I will go ahead and get them. I have the Harry and the house cat so far. :)
 

Varnayrah

Eager
Contributing Artist
I'm so sorry this happened and for all the work you put into it! ... everything else has been said.
 
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KristinF

Inspired
You make the very best animals out there by a country mile. Personally I don't think you are the losers in this break up. It might feel a little like right now, but the vast majority of the poser/ds community will come to you for your animals ;)

Now future projects... Bears, Cattle, Sheep, A REALLY good snake, Aardvark... oh I could go on and on and on... :)
 

Digitell

Enthusiast
I am so very sorry to hear about this. I know you had high hopes of positive things to come. I am not surprised at what happened tho, given Daz's past record. You will be better off at this rate..much better off. You guys have a strong market and excellent products and a wonderful group of people to support them. Rock On!
 

kobaltkween

Brilliant
Contributing Artist
This incident reminds me of what happened with the Millennium Horse.

I remember when DAZ previewed the Millenium Horse in the PC forums and asked for feedback. It was highly flawed, which even I could see, so they got back a whole lot of criticism about conformation and rigging problems. Even if we could give them the rigging problems and ignore the role of JCM, the basic conformation problems really should have been fixable. But when they released the horse a bit later, it had no visible changes or improvements. Many people had taken the time to write very detailed critiques with references, and there was no evidence they'd used any of the feedback they'd requested.

Many people posted to the forums after the release to say how disappointed they were, including a few professional illustrators who said that it made their work look so bad it was rejected by clients who cited the horse as the problem. A lot of people were upset, and not only because the horse was so much less realistic than the current human figures that it didn't work that well in the same image (as was true of most of the DAZ Original animals). The big issue was that they'd asked for feedback they didn't listen to.

DAZ's response to the response was polite and professional, but adversarial. They did nothing to acknowledge the fact that they'd wasted people's time asking for critiques when they just wanted blanket praise.

Harry, on the other hand, was obviously improved through feedback. I've seen improvements to both Dawn and Dusk in response to critiques. While the HiveWire3D team never let themselves get crippled by trying to please everyone, they visibly chose feedback they believed would be useful and incorporated it into their work.

I have seen people in other forums talk about how these forums don't allow criticism. If that were true, I wouldn't be able to come here. I'm the kind of person who points out the downsides and dangers of a decision, especially if no one else mentions them. It's just in my nature to try see both advantages and disadvantages to almost everything. For instance, I, who have loved books and reading since the age of four, was very annoyed by a book I just finished, because it didn't accurately depict the downsides to literacy and the strengths of oral tradition. Every choice and action has a plus and a minus, and I wholly believe that if you ignore those minuses, you can't account for them. If I see that everyone is deliberately ignoring a problem, it's _really_ hard for me to be silent about it.

That's by far my biggest weakness, because most people aren't comfortable looking at downsides to what they want. They tend to experience pointing them out as trying to stop them from doing what they want or need to do. I'm actually fine with just acknowledging problems, even if there's no solutions it at present. Even if there's not even _plans_ for a solution. But that acknowledgement is still more than most can do.

In other words, I'm uniquely qualified to say that HiveWire3D is _amazing_ at responding to criticism. Asking that critiques be constructive, that they literally help people build more, create more, and publish more, is not the same as silencing critics. The Poser community is dying precisely because we treated "Content X sucks," "Every creator who doesn't do this one thing I want should be ashamed and stop making content," and most especially, "That project sucks and should be stopped because it's worthless," the same as "Here's some improvements you might make to your work if you have the time." It's not.

For too long, we treated the people who made Poser as somehow different than regular fellow artists, even when they came into the forums. Then we started treating vendors as if they were different than fellow artists. Then we started treating freebie makers that way. While the DS community is highly fault tolerant and supportive of its artists, most Poser users (myself included) have at one point or another used words to criticize a content artist's work that would have made us report the person if if they'd been used in a comment in our gallery.

HiveWire3D asks that we all at least try to critique each other as we'd like our own work critiqued. That we do our best for each other, and for the community as a whole. More than that, they model that behavior. This forum doesn't silence critics. But if you're looking for freedom to unleash your inner mean girl (regardless of your gender), you won't find it here.

Most of my favorite artists have disappeared. I know some have left due to the negativity. I'm really hoping to see some of them reappear here.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Yes, the HW Big Cat and Cub are coming home to the HiveWire store, and all other current animals here in the HW store, and any new animals coming to the store in the future, will be sold here in our store.
 

DaremoK3

Enthusiast
Wow, this sucks...

Here I thought the future was starting to look bright, and communities were going to be mended.

So sad to read about this.
 

Nod

Adventurous
Well that's sad, but confirms that Daz are arseholes. I doubted that they'd start supporting Poser products again. Let them rot.
Anything I want, I can get from here, or elsewhere.

Other than that, why not give Smith Micro a shout? (They could do with some decent animals! :D)
 

AllenArt

Eager
@captainclone: I know you're trying to be supportive to Hivewire and that's good, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be posting private emails. I'm not trying to save Daz's arse as much as yours if you get found out they'll ruin you for content creation. It always makes me a little antsy when someone posts a private correspondence of any kind in a public forum anyway because I know I'm not supposed to see it ;).
 

captainclone

Inspired
Yea I get your point- and yea if they knew who I really was they'd totally trash me - because they are bully's. Look at how they've treated the good guys here, another site and the one they bought out recently. So maybe we need to find ways to stand up against that. Trouble is no one listens or they are too darned scared to speak out. So I thought try a shock tactic to get the debate rolling, if thats wrong I apologize and please remove it.
 
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