I wish we had..for Dawn

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

Okay, I looked them over. They are expression morphs - not what I meant.

I need things like :

- Eye Socket Depth (L, R, both; socket behind the eye sinking in towards the head *without* sucking in the cheeks, nose or eyebrow/foreahead; positive and negative values both needed)
- Eye Height (up AND down, L and R)
- Eye Distance (from nose; L and R)
- Epicanthic fold inner up/down (L and R)
- Epicanthic fold outer up/down (L and R)
- Epicanthic fold middle up/down (L and R)
- Eyelashes fix!! (get the lashes where they belong anatomically)
- Nostril up/down (L and R)
- Nostril wider/closer (L and R)
- Cheekbones High (L and R)
- Cheekbones Wide (L, R, both at once)
- Brow Out/In (L, R, both at once)
- Brow Wide (L, R, both at once)
- Chin Width (affecting only the point of the chin)
- Mandible wide/narrow (L, R, both at once - jawbone corners only)
- BrowsArch (L, R, both at once - give brows a rounded/arched shape)
- Brows Distance (close/far from the nose; L, R, and both at once)
- Brows height (Raise just the eyebrow up/down; L, R, both at once)
- Torso Length (the area from ribcage bottom, up to collarbones)
- Belly Length (area from hips up to the bottom of the ribcage)
- Belly Width
- Belly Depth
- Glute Height up/down (L, R, both at once)
- Glute Width Top (L, R, both at once; affecting the top half of the glutes only)
- Glute Width Bottom (L, R, both at once; affect lower half only)
- Thigh inner curve (contour inner thighs either thicker or thinner)
- Foot Arch up/down
- Toes longer (individual control)
- Toes wider (individual toe width)
- Instep high/low (L, R)
- Ankle wider/narrow (L, R)
- Wrist Thick/Thin (L, R)
- Breast move outside/inside (L, R, both at once)
- Hip Outer Curve (L, R, both at once; ability to control what kind of rounding the hips have on the outer edge)
- Sacral dimples
- Spine protrude (in and out)
- Fingers crooked (think like arthritic joints; need at the very least, control on each hand separately. Ideal would be each finger.)

All of these, I need control over each side individually. And these are just a few examples of what I mean... I have a much more thorough list on my pc... these are just examples. I need stuff like this on all three figures, too. Not just Dawn.

 

[phdubrov]

This is THE morphpack I can't live without, to add things like mouth and eyes/brows assymmetry and so on. But it's not MR nor 'default' morphpack like Morphs++.
And to be precise: all morphs are in base pack, expressions packs are just dialed poses for base pack.

@Seliah (Childe of Fyre) - it's named expressions pack. IIRC most of face morphs your mentioned is here, will look and post later.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

And to be precise: all morphs are in base pack, expressions packs are just dialed poses for base pack.

Got it. I didn't seem to pick up on that from the product pages. I am on my phone right now, though, too. Might have just not spotted it.

So it's the "base" pack that's needed, then. Ok. Thanks.

 

[phdubrov]

@Seliah (Childe of Fyre) - here the list

Spoiler: a long quote from readme

Expressions | 3rd Party | Nightsong

Controls
Eyes_Up-Down
Eyes_Side-Side

Brows
Forehead_Furrow_Up-Down
Brows_Up-Down
Brow-R_Up-Down
Brow-L_Up-Down
Brows_Inner_Up-Down
Brow-R_Inner_Up-Down
Brow-L_Inner_Up-Down
Brows Mid_Up-Down
Brow-R_Mid_Up-Down
Brow-L_Mid_Up-Down
Brows_Outer_Up-Down
Brow-R_Outer_Up-Down
Brow-L_Outer_Up-Down
Brows_Inner_Together-Apart
Brow-R_Inner_Together-Apart
Brow-L_Inner_Together-Apart
Brows_Inner_Depth
Brow-R_Inner_Depth
Brow-L_Inner_Depth

Eyes
Eyes_Corner_Wrinkle-Smooth
Eye-R_Corner_Wrinkle-Smooth
Eye-L_Corner_Wrinkle-Smooth
Eyelids_Top_Up-Down
Eyelid-R_Top_Up-Down
Eyelid-L_Top_Up-Down
Eyelids_Bottom_Up-Down
Eyelid-R_Bottom_Up-Down
Eyelid-L_Bottom_Up-Down
Eyelids_Bottom_Pinch-Puff
Eyelid-R_Bottom_Pinch-Puff
Eyelid-L_Bottom_Pinch-Puff

Nose
Sneer_Nose-Only
Sneer_R_Nose-Only
Sneer_L_Nose-Only
Nostrils_Flare-Flatten
Nose_Tip_Up-Down
Nose_Tip_Width
Nose_Slope_Down-Up
Nose_Depth
Nose_Side-Side
Nose_Crease-Smooth
Nose_Bridge_Wrinkle_In-Out
Nose_Bridge_Furrow-Pinched
Nose_Bridge_Depth

Cheeks
Cheeks_Pinched-Hollow
Cheek-R_Pinched-Hollow
Cheek-L_Pinched-Hollow
Cheeks_FillBalloon
Cheeks_Expand-Contract
Cheek-R_Expand-Contract
Cheek-L_Expand-Contract
Cheeks_Crease_In-Out
Cheek-R_Crease_In-Out
Cheek-L_Crease_In-Out

Mouth
Sneer
Sneer_R
Sneer_L
Sneer_Lips-Only
Sneer_R_Lips-Only
Sneer_L_Lips-Only
Smile
Smile_R
Smile_L
Smile_Wide
Smile_Wide_R
Smile_Wide_L
Smile_Open
Smile_Complex
Frown_01
Frown_01_R
Frown_01_L
Frown_02
Frown_02_R
Frown_03_L
Mouth_Shhh
Mouth_Pucker
Mouth_HoldBreath
Mouth_StretchDepth
Mouth_Side-Side
Mouth_Narrow-Wide
Mouth-R_Narrow-Wide
Mouth-L_Narrow-Wide
Mouth_Raise-Lower
Mouth_Corner_Up-Down
Mouth-R_Corner_Up-Down
Mouth-L_Corner_Up-Down
Mouth_Open-Close
Lips_Parted-Pressed
Lips_Parted_Small
Mouth_Corner_Pinch-Expand
Mouth-R_Corner_Pinch-Expand
Mouth-L_Corner_Pinch-Expand
Lips_Top_Up-Down
Lip-R_Top_Up-Down
Lip-L_Top_Up-Down
Lips_Top_In-Out
Lip-R_Top_In-Out
Lip-L_Top_In-Out
Lips_Top_OuterHeight
Lips_Top_CenterHeight
Lips_Top_Inside_Up-Down
Lip-R_Top_Inside_Up-Down
Lip-L_Top_Inside_Up-Down
Lips_Top_Ridged-Soft
Lips_Bite
Lip-R_Bite
Lip-L_Bite
Lips_Bottom_Up-Down
Lip-R_Bottom_Up-Down
Lip-L_Bottom_Up-Down
Lips_Bottom_In-Out
Lip-R_Bottom_In-Out
Lip-L_Bottom_In-Out
Lips_Bottom_CenterHeight
Lips_Bottom_Ridged-Flat

Lower Face
Jaw_Side-Side
LowerFace_Forward-Back
Chin_Height
Chin-Depth

Fix-It Morphs
Jaw_Seam_Smooth
VampLash_Hide
VampLash_Top_Forward-Back
VampLash-R_Top_Forward-Back
VampLash-L_Top_Forward-Back
VampLash_InnerTop_Forward-Back
VampLash-R_InnerTop_Forward-Back
VampLash-L_InnerTop_Forward-Back
VampLash_OuterTop_Forward-Back
VampLash-R_OuterTop_Forward-Back
VampLash-L_OuterTop_Forward-Back
VampLash_Bottom_Forward-Back
VampLash-R_Bottom_Forward-Back
VampLash-L_Bottom_Forward-Back
VampLash_Top_Arched
VampLash-R_Top_Arched
VampLash-L_Top_Arched
Teeth_Upper_Side-Side
Teeth_Upper_Forward-Back
Teeth_Lower_Side-Side
Teeth_Lower_Forward-Back

In Poser these files are sorted as shown above. In DAZ Studio they are in the same groups but sorted alphabetically.



--------------------------------------

Features:

There is -one- set of dials to use.
The included Master Parameter dials in Dawn's head move all necessary body parts. Turning one dial there may move the mesh in the head, jaw, or even the eyes!! There is no need to hunt down any extra dials to move!

Many morphs have left and right versions.
The human(oid) face is a wonderful, asymmetrical place, so left and right versions of many of these morphs were included.

Most morphs are double-sculpted.
What does this mean? This means that care was taken to make sure that nearly every morph works at values of both 1 and -1. In many cases this meant sculpting an all-new, opposing morph that the dial will use when dialed to -1.

For example: When setting "Brows_Up-Down" to 1, the brows will raise and folds will form above the eyebrows. When the dial is set to -1, the brows will move down and a different set of folds will be created below the brows. In this case, each movement is unique and not merely a mirror of the other.

All morphs take the eyelashes into account.
No matter how furrowed the brow becomes or how pinched the cheeks are, the large eyelashes move automatically out of the way.

"Fix-It" morphs are included.
Specialized morphs for smoothing the jaw seam, moving the teeth, and moving the large "vamp" lashes are included to help these expression morphs fit faces of -any- shape.

New controller morphs are included.
The new eye controller morphs (Eyes_Up-Down and Eyes_Side-Side) automatically move the lids to mimic real eye movements.
The new Mouth_Open-Close morph also triggers accompanying morph dials to pull the lips away from the teeth when dialed to 1, and compresses the closed lips when dialed to -1. Hint: Add Mouth_StretchDepth to stretch the corners of the mouth back and turn a normal open mouth into a scream!
The new Jaw_Side-Side morph both moves the jaw and morphs the lips of the face to accompany movements.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

@phdubrov Thank you!

Yeah, my phone wasn't showing much of the details on the page... the mobile over there is pretty awkward. That does look like a great pack. I will definitely grab it... hopefully the vendor does something similar for Dusk as well. I would still be hesitant to build a commercial product that depended on it, because if it ends up disappearing once all the dust is done settling with the merger, then we end up with an orphaned product in the store that can't be used anymore.

I would definitely use those for myself - but for the folks here who are looking for more ethnic styled characters in the store... again, I think it is too risky to build a store package off of a third party morph pack in this specific situation, because if that morph pack does not move to another store, it's going to leave us with products that require a no longer available package. Those types of items end up sitting on the shelf and frustrating customers as well as vendors and the store staff.

 

[DigiDotz]

I would quite like "Medusa" for Dawn unless there is one already.

 

[phdubrov]

I would definitely use those for myself - but for the folks here who are looking for more ethnic styled characters in the store... again, I think it is too risky to build a store package off of a third party morph pack in this specific situation, because if that morph pack does not move to another store, it's going to leave us with products that require a no longer available package. Those types of items end up sitting on the shelf and frustrating customers as well as vendors and the store staff.

Even without store problem — build upon not widly known and not cheap pack would be not best idea.

About wishes:
A. Detailed skins. (Insert long rant about washed and blured textures and market trends here... Why use 4k textures if details worth only 1k? )
B. Muscle morphs on Daz level. Better with Subd1 version. (P11 only, yes )
C. Subd (HD) details morphs for face and body. Elbows, knees, fingers... (P11 too)

 

[Zaarin]

This, this, this, THIS. I have been saying THIS for a long time now! And, furthermore, we need those fine detail morphs to be SEPARATED. I need to be able to control the eye lid upper highs individually. I need to be able to control eye HEIGHT INDIVIDUALLY. No human face is perfectly symmetrical! I need to be able to control muscle tone on the legs SEPARATE from the REST of the body, and I need to be able to control shaping in general of arms separately from the rest of the body, and this goes for ALL the body and head morphs.

What we have right now is a good start, but we definitely need more morphs, much more fine detail morphs, and we need a LOT more CONTROL over INDIVIDUAL body parts WITH those morphs.

I am working on it. The biggest barrier for us right now as texture artists is a complete and total, utter LACK of GOOD merchant resources to use. I used VW's AFRICAN resource in order to get Nataani's more bronze colored skin. I had to start with AFRICAN to get that.

Dawn doesn't even HAVE an African MR - ANYWHERE! And if she does, could someoene PLEASE pretty please point me to it so I can go snatch it up? Because there is no other way I am going to be able to get those middle skintones without at least an African MR. You can NOT go from Caucasian to African, or from Caucasian to middle eastern, middle asian, american indian. You end up with a flat looking map and a skin that looks like a three year old colored it with wax crayons. I need good - detailed - MR's for African skins at the very LEAST in order to be able to give Dawn anything even close to what Nataani's skin has.

And Luna? Luna has NOT ONE skin resource out there except for the one she came with. NOT ONE.

But yes. I am working on the ethnic skins for the figures... one at a time here. The Face of Africa skin in the store is very nice, though the morphs for it appear to be Poser-only. But that skin is NOT a resource. I would love, LOVE IT, if VW would do a skin MR for Dawn that is African like she did for Dusk.

THAT is what I absolutely NEED if anyone wants to ever see more than Caucasian skins from me for Dawn OR Luna. I am not good enough to build a skin completely from scratch with photos. Not yet. I need the skin resources to start off with or I can't do anything about skin texturing. And right now, we have exactly TWO skin MR's for Dusk - the default one he arrived with, and VW's African. And *ALL* of Dawn's MR's are Caucasian. And there is NOT ONE available for Luna.

If folks want me to continue doing ethnic skins and morphs, I need a good collection of morphs on ALL the figures, good CONTROL with those morphs for INDIVIDUAL parts of the body, and I NEED a good set of skin MR's for Dawn, Dusk, AND Luna.

So... some folks are working on the ethnics... but there are things we need as content creators to do this with, and some of those things are NOT available right now. My hands are tied on Dawn! I have tried repeatedly to get a skin somewhere in the neighborhood of even Nataani's slightly bronzed colors. It can NOT be done from Caucasian. I need either skin resources that are in those middle shades, or I need an African resource for Dawn that I can change.

The sooner we have darker skinned DETAILED resource skins for Dawn and Luna, the sooner folks will see more ethnics in the store.

Just my $10 worth. LOL

This is why I continue to prefer to support Gen4 figures over Dawn and Dusk even though Dawn and Dusk are so beautifully rigged and just overall such high-quality figures: Gen4 have much more versatile morphs and a wider array of ethnic skins available to them (though still lacking in those midtones--I have like two characters for M4 that make decent Native Americans, maybe one or two that make acceptable Middle Easterners; make that none for either for K4; V4 is much better off in that regard but could still do better). Ethnic clothing becomes the biggest issue and is the only reason I'm jealous of Genesis, who seems to be getting a fair variety of clothing that if not perfectly accurate is at least a decent base to work from.

Also, addressing Dawn not being an attractive figure, I think it's her lips. She has very...distinctive lips--which are a pain to work with when creating characters, even more so than V4's giant shapeless lips or K4's weird compressed lips with an overbite...

 

[Rae134]

I haven't looked into it as I've never had to do a human texture, but if its an MR can it be used for other models besides the one it was specifically created for? eg: a V4 MR made into a Dawn skin? (I understand that things would need to be moved around etc to fit). I guess it would depend on the terms of the person who created the MR?

 

[DigiDotz]

Well, I got a bit overzealous a few years back and have a few MR's for V4 and G2 I never used. Sometimes the license does not forbid using on other figures if you can do it, sometimes it does.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

I haven't looked into it as I've never had to do a human texture, but if its an MR can it be used for other models besides the one it was specifically created for? eg: a V4 MR made into a Dawn skin? (I understand that things would need to be moved around etc to fit). I guess it would depend on the terms of the person who created the MR?

Don't buy any of 3Dream's MR's then. They are very plain and up front - conversions between different UVmaps/figures is strictly forbidden. Some resources do forbid conversions. Others do not.

 

[RAMWolff]

When and if I get to Dusk to do Bruno's skin over I'll be doing that from scratch. I have an OK understanding of how to do that in ZBrush but I really need like a month off of doing hair to really dive in deeply to get my work flow straightened out once and for all.

 

[Rae134]

haha not really interested in humans anyway Seliah, I'll stick to my ponies (you guys do nice stuff so I'll keep buying them)

 

[James R.]

I hope this hasn't been covered in this thread (apologies if it has) but I'd like to see a line of "realistic sci-fi" clothes for Dawn. Not Peek-a-Boo(b) Space Hooker Wear. Uh, not that there's anything wrong with that.

What I'm talking about is clothing that is practical, but appears to be from some time in the future. Along the lines of Felicity Jones and Diego Luna's costumes in Rogue One. (Yes, I know, those are not from the future, but from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...) Perhaps not quite so military-oriented in design as those two outfits, but detailed and able to be used for more than just science fiction (with different textures canvas "space pants" become ordinary blue jeans, for example).

So, all in all, a themed realistic costume built of layers: boots/shoes, socks, pants, undershirt/underpants, shirt, jacket, hood/scarf, gloves.

Sell the parts as a stack, or sell them individually to keep the one-time price down. Mix and match the parts, change the textures, and you have some very practical diversity and a lot of value.

I've seen packages like this for other characters. Dawn deserves some, too.

 

[eclark1894]

I hope this hasn't been covered in this thread (apologies if it has) but I'd like to see a line of "realistic sci-fi" clothes for Dawn. Not Peek-a-Boo(b) Space Hooker Wear. Uh, not that there's anything wrong with that.

What I'm talking about is clothing that is practical, but appears to be from some time in the future. Along the lines of Felicity Jones and Diego Luna's costumes in Rogue One. (Yes, I know, those are not from the future, but from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...) Perhaps not quite so military-oriented in design as those two outfits, but detailed and able to be used for more than just science fiction (with different textures canvas "space pants" become ordinary blue jeans, for example).

So, all in all, a themed realistic costume built of layers: boots/shoes, socks, pants, undershirt/underpants, shirt, jacket, hood/scarf, gloves.

Sell the parts as a stack, or sell them individually to keep the one-time price down. Mix and match the parts, change the textures, and you have some very practical diversity and a lot of value.

I've seen packages like this for other characters. Dawn deserves some, too.

I don't mean to ridicule, but it often astounds me as to what people consider "futuristic". Funny thing is it usually fluctuates between tight and revealing or flowy and revealing for women. Men tend to cover up more and more as women wear less and less.

 

[James R.]

I don't mean to ridicule, but it often astounds me as to what people consider "futuristic". Funny thing is it usually fluctuates between tight and revealing or flowy and revealing for women. Men tend to cover up more and more as women wear less and less.

In some versions of the future, all women are totally naked. This is of course after the Shiny Spandex and Latex World War destroys all remaining stockpiles of, well... all the shiny spandex and latex. The men all still dress like Mad Max.

 

[Gadget Girl]

So I had to share this, a picture of me (from about 25 years ago) in a play called The Apple Cart by George Bernard Shaw which was written in 1928 but takes place in the distant future. Probably because I've been thinking about the play a lot with Brexit, not really about that, but it is about a future Kind of England who threaten to abdicate and run for Parliament because he thinks they aren't doing their job right.

Scan-131025-0046 by The Upstart Crow, on Flickr

For the record in this future only the King of England was allowed to wear shiny stuff. Here he is with the American Ambassador.

Scan-110922-0006 by The Upstart Crow, on Flickr

 

[James R.]

So I had to share this, a picture of me (from about 25 years ago) in a play called The Apple Cart by George Bernard Shaw which was written in 1928 but takes place in the distant future. Probably because I've been thinking about the play a lot with Brexit, not really about that, but it is about a future Kind of England who threaten to abdicate and run for Parliament because he thinks they aren't doing their job right.

Scan-131025-0046 by The Upstart Crow, on Flickr

For the record in this future only the King of England was allowed to wear shiny stuff. Here he is with the American Ambassador.

Scan-110922-0006 by The Upstart Crow, on Flickr

Yep, there sure are a lot of different visions of what future clothing will look like. All are valid, because the future is unwritten.

However, I really hope the future doesn't include a return to medieval style clothing. I look terrible in tights.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

As do I!

 

[Miss B]

As does everyone who isn't a size 5 supermodel.