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I Just Wanted to Post an Image Thread
- Thread starter Stezza
- Start date
quietrob
Extraordinary
Well, good and dandy but this wasn't your thread and you are not a mod...I don't think...are you? And those here might prefer leaving it as an art submission/art viewing/critiquing thread and not a blab session thread! Just saying.
I never said I was a mod. I never said this was my thread. I never said I agreed with a single word you wrote. I don't. I disagree with pretty much everything you said. I just don't believe in suppressing comments unless they are personally insulting. You are entitled to your opinion and should be free to express it that's all. Just like I expressed mine. I do have a question.
If you don't think what the people here who work so hard at their craft isn't art, why are you here? Just saying.
Mods, perhaps you should start a new thread for this. I suspect it won't last long and would keep this section open for art submission, viewing and critiquing if requested.
quietrob
Extraordinary
Quite understandable. I just wish the rest of the online communities could see things that way. In the beginning I used to get more intelligent comments than I do nowadays. The current trend is posting comments with up to 4-5 letters, usually an adjective. That makes 96% of the feedback I get these days, and I am lucky to get any. As the community size grows every year, people get easily overwhelmed by the sheer amount of contents to look at, so they just quickly browse over, or delete all the notifications. Even though I don't post much of nudes nowadays, most of my recent web games have nudity. Most were created in collaboration with (non-3D) artists from the DA community, and I don't mind nudity if that's what they want.
Spraying to all fields. If people truly have a problem with nudity, they need to visit the Sistine chapel and take a look at the ceiling.
I'm guilty of using a word or two sometimes. Sometimes, I can't think of anything else to say because to say more would be diminish what I'm saying. I did this to you recently on an art piece with a woman holding a spear and a snarling leopard I think. The composition, execution and the feelings that the piece forced from me left me with only one word.
Superb!
I should apologize for my lack of adjectives, comparisons to like pieces and such but I'll just say I will try and do better in the future. I do NOT critique unless it's specifically asked for. If I have a question, normally I ask the poster in a PM. However, let me say that a word is better than a click. A click is better than nothing. Yet either way I'll continue creating art and stories because I am driven to do so.
Thank you! Oh yeah, that was my take on Frank Frazetta style, and a chance to use the big cat. The character style was mine, but the color palette, poses, and general composition was Frazetta.
I have to say I feel lucky (and happy) when I get any feedback these days, because people tend to hit and run. Coming from that, if I managed to get people to actually write something (even if 4-5 letters), that is already something, because most people never write anything. The most common is people who comment don't fave, and those who fave don't comment. Getting both from the same person feels like an achievement. So if I get something, it means I am on the right track.
Conversely, I was lucky to have started at a time when people still took their time to post meaningful comments, because I really needed feedback back in those days. Since then I have learned a lot and now I feel like I can walk on my own, so nowadays' 4-letter feedback is good enough to know I am doing something right. ^^
I have to say I feel lucky (and happy) when I get any feedback these days, because people tend to hit and run. Coming from that, if I managed to get people to actually write something (even if 4-5 letters), that is already something, because most people never write anything. The most common is people who comment don't fave, and those who fave don't comment. Getting both from the same person feels like an achievement. So if I get something, it means I am on the right track.
Conversely, I was lucky to have started at a time when people still took their time to post meaningful comments, because I really needed feedback back in those days. Since then I have learned a lot and now I feel like I can walk on my own, so nowadays' 4-letter feedback is good enough to know I am doing something right. ^^
carmen indorato
Extraordinary
I never said I was a mod. I never said this was my thread. I never said I agreed with a single word you wrote. I don't. I disagree with pretty much everything you said. I just don't believe in suppressing comments unless they are personally insulting. You are entitled to your opinion and should be free to express it that's all. Just like I expressed mine. I do have a question.
If you don't think what the people here who work so hard at their craft isn't art, why are you here? Just saying.
Mods, perhaps you should start a new thread for this. I suspect it won't last long and would keep this section open for art submission, viewing and critiquing if requested.
TO my supposed belief that there is no art done here:
I don't think I ever said that I think that all or ANY of the members here who post their work are not creating art. I did say I do not consider MY work as art anymore. I am a picture maker or at most an illustrator. I see a lot of images here I have liked and also praised and/or downloaded for future viewing. I am here because i like what Chris and his crew are doing. I though it showed guts and deep belief in his skills and the skills of those he has working with him. I love seeing the talents at work and that talent is manifest in the work produced. I also did say if anyone is a truer artist here it is Chris and his pool of creatives. Without them and their products the rest of us Poser users and users of his talents we would not be able to do what we/you do.
On you being a MOD:
I never called you a Mod. I merely established it might be easier giving me/us permission to continue grinching this thread NOT being a Mod. I would have preferred a MOD or the original poster of this thread give their blessing to continue.
BTW I haven't yet heard from them yet we continue just the same.
On you agreeing with what I wrote:
I frankly don't care much if you agree or disagree with anything I wrote. I was responding to someone elses's comments so my discourse was with them and not you. If you decide to jump in here please make it meaningful
And yes I agree this thread is gone awry so I will stop!
Again I apologize.
carmen indorato
Extraordinary
I know dear and thank you. I know it probably didn't come across I really hatE typing and my darn CAPS LOCK KEY! But I have been on lone for a long time and have ome to know what is and is not acceptable. Except for very little TOS remains the same and what I create breaks almost all of those listed rules!
quietrob
Extraordinary
That particular work of art I was referring to does have a Frank Frazetta, Boris Vallejo feel. I think it speaks to the influence that Frank had on millions of his admirers. It reminds me of the covers of Vamperilla and Savage Tales rather than Heavy Metal.
You know, when I was posting my comic over at D.A. I would average perhaps a hundred views on any particular page. That number doubled when I posted a page of my big breasted heroine roped with extra cleavage present. It was a splash page in comic terms and that number went back to typical hundred views over the course of a few days. The comments remained the same. I would get 4 or 5 comments. I always made sure to answer each one even if their comments were only a few words. Those few words are precious to me. So you should assume for ANY comment you get, you probably had at least 25 views. There are a lot of lurkers here, there and everywhere who don't even click 'like'...even when they do!
To be clear, that artwork doesn't just show you are the on the right track. You own the track! Just so you know...I had been working on a similar piece but now I don't dare show it.
Hornet3d
Wise
Well if we look on the positive side, this thread is a lot more active than some whole forums elsewhere and the good side of that is it shows people care pictures, renders or 3D art, whichever term you want to use. Not only that the submission are far more interesting than the 'mine is better than yours' that seem to populate some threads, again elsewhere. The other plus is that I have learnt from the discussion, I can see the subject from a different point of view and, while I may not agree, I can certainly see a wider picture. I have also had my eyes opened to certain aspects that I had not thought about and, as my aim is usually to join in but not upset anyone the extra knowledge is always useful.
Hornet3d
Wise
I believe some of the renders I produce now are much better than they used to be years ago and a lot of that is due to the people that took the time to comment, and on the rare occasion, suggest ways to improve. Recently I started using dynamic clothing and the fact that I am still doing using it almost completely down to the people here that not only commented on my efforts but came up with things I might like to try.
Like you I tend to see feedback as a guide I am going in the right direction, even if that is just in the form of likes, it might be a correct assumption or be totally wrong but it is some feedback at least. As most my family and friends have no understanding of why I do this as a hobby it is nice to have any comments from others who at least can see the motivation.
Like pretty well everything in life it has two sides and, as I welcome feedback, I try to return the help by commenting on others work. I do admit though to feeling restricted in this as, with no formal training in art whatsoever, there is often little I can suggest. The best I try and do is feedback that I like something and why in the hope that it will help in some small way.
I think the other point I would like to make that the feedback can come in may forms. A few pages back in this thread two people asked questions on a story line I had been playing with here and I have to say I was stunned that they not only remembered but were interested. OK, I create the art I want to create but I would be lying if I said that the questions did not give me a real buzz. I used to have the same feeling in the past when a vendor would like, or comment on a render that used content they had produced, it sort have give the feedback a extra validity. Sadly that was a few years ago and the venue where that used to happen is now only a shell of it's former self.
Hornet3d
Wise
I never said I was a mod. I never said this was my thread. I never said I agreed with a single word you wrote. I don't. I disagree with pretty much everything you said. I just don't believe in suppressing comments unless they are personally insulting. You are entitled to your opinion and should be free to express it that's all. Just like I expressed mine. I do have a question.
If you don't think what the people here who work so hard at their craft isn't art, why are you here? Just saying.
Mods, perhaps you should start a new thread for this. I suspect it won't last long and would keep this section open for art submission, viewing and critiquing if requested.
I understand what you were trying to do, I added something slightly similar but it raises a point I think should not be lost in all this, and that is I think the mods here do a great job. Elsewhere I have been highly critical in the past at the inconsistency or total lack of moderation and the result is now clear to see. Here there seems to be a very good understanding and application of good moderation. The fact that threads meander seems to be excepted and they normally come back on course without intervention. Where this is not the case a new thread is created but the fact that this has been done is clearly explained and why. I can only think of one instance (there may be more as I don't have the time to read all the threads) where the was a sort of a clamp down but I don't believe the person was banned, it was suggested politely that maybe Hivewire was not their sort of place.
There is no doubt there is a lot more going on behind the scenes but the perception is the moderation is pretty well spot on from my point of view. Long may it continue.
I don't quite understand why some artists claim that feedback is not important to them. That they create art for themselves, and don't care what others think. If that were true, why do they post it publicly? Why do they show it to the world if they don't care?
There is a difference between not needing critique, and not needing feedback. Those are not the same thing. All artists need feedback, but not necessarily critique. DA makes quite a distinction between submitting plain feedback, or a critique. People can only submit critique when the artist specifically requests it, which is a good thing. But everyone is free to post feedback. I have met plenty of really good artists who rarely get any attention at DA, which in many cases end up discouraging them to continue. That's how important feedback is to an artist.
I don't know WHY I managed to consistently receive feedback from the community, even when these other artists are way better than me. But I sometimes take the opportunity to invite them to create collab works with me, as means to promote their art. I made over 100 at DA, and sometimes these artists return for a 2nd or 3rd collab just for the fun of it. It's my way to give back something to the community, and perhaps help aspiring artists to get the attention they deserve.
From this experience it seems like, apparently, getting attention from the community does not depend on talent. This might be related to what I said above, about people not commenting anymore these days. Or perhaps the DA community has grown so much (over 4 million artists) that the sheer volume of artists overwhelms people, who can't keep up with all that is produced by the artists they follow. Most likely they've picked too many people to follow, as there is no lack of talent at DA.
Some people claim I got more opportunity because I have joined DA over 10 years ago, when the community wasn't this massive. Who knows? In either case, I nowadays get way less feedback than before, and they are also less meaningful. That's fine with me, because I believe I have learned enough from the feedback I've already got. This is also the reason why I have written that article at DA about the "art of commenting", because I have seen how some people lack sensibility when expressing their opinion, and end up hurting the artists. Most artists are pretty protective about their creations, so people have to keep that in mind when commenting. Of course there are trolls, but at least it's easy to know when we meet one.
Chances are that the moderation process at HW is good because the site is still small. As it grows, maybe more mods have to be hired, or perhaps use unpaid volunteers, and that's where the inconsistencies start to manifest in the form of what appears to be double-standards. It's not done on purpose (hopefully), but instead because different people see things in their own ways, sometimes interpreting the TOS based on their own personal values and beliefs. Happens everywhere, and tends to frustrate the users. The bigger the community, the worse it gets.
For example, in one of the DA groups, a mod has tagged one of my fully dressed characters as "pornographic", because she thought it appears to be sexy. That doesn't violate any TOS, but the mod has the right to claim it does. In her mind, sexy = porn, and there was nothing I could do. It was an illustration of a flying fairy, which many here at HW thought to look rather innocent. The discrepancies in judgement come from the human factor. There is also the fact that not everyone is mature enough perform the mod task. In many cases, DS group founders get desperate to recruit volunteers, and end up empowering people who lack the maturity to wield the responsibility, and these mods end up overdoing it. In any case, it seems inevitable.
There is a difference between not needing critique, and not needing feedback. Those are not the same thing. All artists need feedback, but not necessarily critique. DA makes quite a distinction between submitting plain feedback, or a critique. People can only submit critique when the artist specifically requests it, which is a good thing. But everyone is free to post feedback. I have met plenty of really good artists who rarely get any attention at DA, which in many cases end up discouraging them to continue. That's how important feedback is to an artist.
I don't know WHY I managed to consistently receive feedback from the community, even when these other artists are way better than me. But I sometimes take the opportunity to invite them to create collab works with me, as means to promote their art. I made over 100 at DA, and sometimes these artists return for a 2nd or 3rd collab just for the fun of it. It's my way to give back something to the community, and perhaps help aspiring artists to get the attention they deserve.
From this experience it seems like, apparently, getting attention from the community does not depend on talent. This might be related to what I said above, about people not commenting anymore these days. Or perhaps the DA community has grown so much (over 4 million artists) that the sheer volume of artists overwhelms people, who can't keep up with all that is produced by the artists they follow. Most likely they've picked too many people to follow, as there is no lack of talent at DA.
Some people claim I got more opportunity because I have joined DA over 10 years ago, when the community wasn't this massive. Who knows? In either case, I nowadays get way less feedback than before, and they are also less meaningful. That's fine with me, because I believe I have learned enough from the feedback I've already got. This is also the reason why I have written that article at DA about the "art of commenting", because I have seen how some people lack sensibility when expressing their opinion, and end up hurting the artists. Most artists are pretty protective about their creations, so people have to keep that in mind when commenting. Of course there are trolls, but at least it's easy to know when we meet one.
Chances are that the moderation process at HW is good because the site is still small. As it grows, maybe more mods have to be hired, or perhaps use unpaid volunteers, and that's where the inconsistencies start to manifest in the form of what appears to be double-standards. It's not done on purpose (hopefully), but instead because different people see things in their own ways, sometimes interpreting the TOS based on their own personal values and beliefs. Happens everywhere, and tends to frustrate the users. The bigger the community, the worse it gets.
For example, in one of the DA groups, a mod has tagged one of my fully dressed characters as "pornographic", because she thought it appears to be sexy. That doesn't violate any TOS, but the mod has the right to claim it does. In her mind, sexy = porn, and there was nothing I could do. It was an illustration of a flying fairy, which many here at HW thought to look rather innocent. The discrepancies in judgement come from the human factor. There is also the fact that not everyone is mature enough perform the mod task. In many cases, DS group founders get desperate to recruit volunteers, and end up empowering people who lack the maturity to wield the responsibility, and these mods end up overdoing it. In any case, it seems inevitable.
Hornet3d
Wise
@Ken1171
I would not argue on any of you points in the last post and I accept that as a group grows and more mods are required that keeping a consistent standard becomes more difficult. I think the inconsistencies that annoyed me were where one member could say something and be reprimanded and another could say pretty well much the same thing and nothing was said. If that had been one or two occasions I could understand but when it happened on a regular basis, with the same forum and the same moderator, it seems unfair. Worse still was how personal some threads became with no moderation at all. I tried at the time to point out this lack of guidance and where it would lead, in what I believed to be a polite way, but the response was upsetting to say the least so I gave up trying. Sadly I was proved right but it was clear to many where it would end. The forums I am talking about are now much better but I believe that is down the the point you have all ready made, the people posting are way down on what there was with some threads lingering for weeks without an update or answer to a question moderation is hardly ever needed now. Of course when the bulk moved on so did the trolls who were so active before, maybe to find new people to upset, who knows.
For me it is sad as I feel the trolls won and the community as a whole lost but I guess that is the way of the internet, if not of the world.
I would not argue on any of you points in the last post and I accept that as a group grows and more mods are required that keeping a consistent standard becomes more difficult. I think the inconsistencies that annoyed me were where one member could say something and be reprimanded and another could say pretty well much the same thing and nothing was said. If that had been one or two occasions I could understand but when it happened on a regular basis, with the same forum and the same moderator, it seems unfair. Worse still was how personal some threads became with no moderation at all. I tried at the time to point out this lack of guidance and where it would lead, in what I believed to be a polite way, but the response was upsetting to say the least so I gave up trying. Sadly I was proved right but it was clear to many where it would end. The forums I am talking about are now much better but I believe that is down the the point you have all ready made, the people posting are way down on what there was with some threads lingering for weeks without an update or answer to a question moderation is hardly ever needed now. Of course when the bulk moved on so did the trolls who were so active before, maybe to find new people to upset, who knows.
For me it is sad as I feel the trolls won and the community as a whole lost but I guess that is the way of the internet, if not of the world.
I never seen this one before.
Personally, I don't have an issue with this topic being temporarily side tracked with discussion. It's not an "official" type HiveWire product render topic. Even if it were, we all know topics tend to wander periodically.
That said, if anyone feels the discussion should be separated from the images, just say so, and one of us CV-Bees will move it to a new topic.
We're really rather easy going here, and it's rare we need to remind someone to keep discussions respectful.
Oh and ... CV-Bees are Community Volunteers who keep this place buzzing along :wink:
We just don't have a need to carry a big stick. Hopefully, we never will!
That said, if anyone feels the discussion should be separated from the images, just say so, and one of us CV-Bees will move it to a new topic.
We're really rather easy going here, and it's rare we need to remind someone to keep discussions respectful.
Oh and ... CV-Bees are Community Volunteers who keep this place buzzing along :wink:
We just don't have a need to carry a big stick. Hopefully, we never will!
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Its Poser done with Sidherose's Graphics Seth from fantasy attic for M4. I just happened to run it in Daz.
Getting close to getting the corrections back into QAV.
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In all the time I posted images at the DAZ forums, I rarely got feedback. The few times someone commented on my art, I was rather ... gobsmacked. I honestly did not know people liked my art. I thought my stuff was just too odd or that people didn't like me. Which I'm sure was true in some cases
Anyway, I've had quite a few heart to heart talks with myself. Did I need feedback to validate my art or me as an artist or was I confident enough in myself, my vision, and my skills? Of course, it helped that my sculpture, ceramics, and drawing instructors thought highly of my work ... and that my sculptures had been accepted into exhibitions and galleries. So, even though what I do now is different from what I did then, it's still art.
Yes. I DO care what others think, and I am thrilled beyond belief when someone comments. But, I really do create art for myself ... and even if everyone hated my art, I'd probably still post it because I also need it to be seen. It's just not enough to create it and store it on a hard drive unseen by anyone but me.
Eventually, I realized a lot of people (including me) often appreciate what someone posted, but don't always leave a comment or click Like. By the time I get home from work, there are SOOO many posts to read and respond to. Unfortunately, I tend to spend an eternity writing a single post ... even when the post ends up being a short paragraph!
Which means I'd still be at the computer reading and posting well after 1 am, and I would have got nothing else done!
Anyway, I've had quite a few heart to heart talks with myself. Did I need feedback to validate my art or me as an artist or was I confident enough in myself, my vision, and my skills? Of course, it helped that my sculpture, ceramics, and drawing instructors thought highly of my work ... and that my sculptures had been accepted into exhibitions and galleries. So, even though what I do now is different from what I did then, it's still art.
Yes. I DO care what others think, and I am thrilled beyond belief when someone comments. But, I really do create art for myself ... and even if everyone hated my art, I'd probably still post it because I also need it to be seen. It's just not enough to create it and store it on a hard drive unseen by anyone but me.
Eventually, I realized a lot of people (including me) often appreciate what someone posted, but don't always leave a comment or click Like. By the time I get home from work, there are SOOO many posts to read and respond to. Unfortunately, I tend to spend an eternity writing a single post ... even when the post ends up being a short paragraph!
Which means I'd still be at the computer reading and posting well after 1 am, and I would have got nothing else done!
Funny thing is Satira, that's how I knew you from the DAZ forums . . . from your artwork. Then again I must be strange too, because I love your artwork.In all the time I posted images at the DAZ forums, I rarely got feedback. The few times someone commented on my art, I was rather ... gobsmacked. I honestly did not know people liked my art. I thought my stuff was just too odd or that people didn't like me. Which I'm sure was true in some cases