Getting used to new habits for Coronavirus....

[AnimaGemini]

The experts say that wearing the masks is not the right thing to do. They say, over and over again, that there is no proof it protects you from the virus. Those who are already sick with the virus are the ones who should be wearing the masks. And...those people should not be out and about in public, anyway!!!

I'm not saying this virus isn't dangerous. Just that, so far, the numbers have not shown it worse than the flu. Come on. 38 million vs. 22 thousand? More have died from the flu than those who have COVID-19. The death rate percentage is not close to that of the flu. And, if, as they say, many more have it unawares, that makes the ratio of deaths to cases even lower.

We know this can all change. But the panic, the hoarding, the price gouging, the black market selling, the misinformation...those are much more dangerous at the moment.

Dana

I think it is way to early to compare Covid-19 with Influenza. Against Influenza exists vaccine, Corona, rien. We also don't know the side effects of Covid-19. As I hear, many people which recover have issues with the lung for the rest of their lives.
Fact is, we know almost nothing about it and should not make the mistake to underestimate it.
My husband and I had it. Was like a middle heavy flue, I had 2 days heavier breathing, my husband had 1.5 days higher fever. Headache, very tired ,both of us and I loose for a short time 2-3 days maybe, my taste and smelling. We both recover quick and are completely fine now. But I still don't underestimate it, because i had luck or better immune system.
My former doctor , he is also my husbands best friend, inform us regularly about Covid-19. Mortality is 1 % ......but......very high amount of infected need Intensive care ,30% . Many of them are young . Here is no real pattern. Except that children don't get sick from it.

What ever comes out in a few weeks. Take care of you.

 

[Hornet3d]

The experts say that wearing the masks is not the right thing to do. They say, over and over again, that there is no proof it protects you from the virus. Those who are already sick with the virus are the ones who should be wearing the masks. And...those people should not be out and about in public, anyway!!!

I'm not saying this virus isn't dangerous. Just that, so far, the numbers have not shown it worse than the flu. Come on. 38 million vs. 22 thousand? More have died from the flu than those who have COVID-19. The death rate percentage is not close to that of the flu. And, if, as they say, many more have it unawares, that makes the ratio of deaths to cases even lower.

We know this can all change. But the panic, the hoarding, the price gouging, the black market selling, the misinformation...those are much more dangerous at the moment.

Dana

I understand what you are trying to say and to actually be supportive although I am not sure telling everyone that there is an even bigger killer than COVID-19 also waiting to kill you helps (before I get hounded for that it is said very much 'tongue in cheek').

In one sense the figures on the flu are very valid but that has to be seen against the backdrop that a number of countries are in lockdown so this has to be more than over reaction. I suspect that we may have avoided a lockdown here in the UK if people had taken heed to the advice but they did not. They shut the pubs because people were still filling them even when being told to stay at home. The other point is the speed of the infection rate and we seem to be in the same position in the UK as the US in that we are expecting the hospitals to be overwhelmed. When there are constant stories in the UK press of unknown sources in the hospitals saying they will stop treating anyone over the age of 65, people over 65 get scared (or more sacred than they already were).

I am over 65 and I suffer from diabetes and a number of other conditions but I can't say I am paralyzed with fear, I am taking heed of all the advice in the hope I do not get it. Other than that there is little more I can do other than help those around me. While I take that view I know of others that are terrified and, let's face it with some justification, but quoting numbers to them does not help. It matters little to them if the death rate is 1% or 20% it only matters to them if they or members of their family are in that 1%.

I am not trying to upset anyone in saying any of this and everyone's view is equally important but we are all going to react to react to situations like this in different ways.

 

[Hornet3d]

Here in France we have a full Lock down. Till now only for 2 weeks, but they talking about way longer.
Hard times for everybody. Hope you all are safe and healthy.
My husband and me we already went trough the virus.Fortunately in a mild form. (Just like a cold ,which take longer as usual )We was 3 weeks in full quarantine and now, after 1 week in freedom again in a lock down.
But we are okay with it and stay at home .Only go out for short shopping.
Only bugs us that we just move in our new home and there is so much to do, but we can not because the shops for furniture, bricolage (DYI ) stores are closed, garden stores and also all our appointments with company's which repair or replace stuff ( like floor, bath room stuff) are delayed till further notice. So still between cartons and mess.


Stay all safe and big hugs to all from France.
Hope this cheer up some of you

You got through it, that is good news both for you and some hope to the rest of us. Sorry to hear about the home though but I guess it gives you more time to do some planning. DIY stores are still open here in the UK but even that is not problem free in that customers are buying paint faster than they can put it on the shelves or delivery it to store. It seems like every man, woman and dog is going to redecorate while they are, for the most part, forced to stay in.

 

[NapalmArsenal]

Yep I work for Lowe's and that's true we are selling paint etc like crazy and also lawn care garden and plants ........ though as Delivery Coordinator we did get our updated protocol on conducting deliveries and can leave them on the front porch or in the garage if the customer so deems. Otherwise social distancing and wearing gloves etc. and disinfect all things when you get there and then again when you leave including the truck cabs etc with bleach.

 

[Alisa]

@AnimaGemini - glad you and hubby are ok, and that you both had mild forms of the virus.

My heart is with everyone who is has the virus or has a loved one who does, and with all of those who are suffering financially as a result of so many things closing.

I also want to throw out a huge THANK YOU to people in the medical community, and those in the vital services who are staying out there to keep things open that need to stay open. If you have to go to a store, for example, please thank those who work there (while practicing social distancing, of course!).

 

[Miss B]

Here in France we have a full Lock down.

Stay all safe and big hugs to all from France.
Hope this cheer up some of you

Thanks for stopping in and letting us all know you guys are OK. Sorry to hear you were both sick, but glad it was "mild", and that you're better now.

Oh, and the "pup" looks sweet, so thanks for posting that picture.

 

[AnimaGemini]

@MissB
Yes, we had luck in un-luck. It was very unfortunate the whole stuff. We get infected from a working college of my husband who just was 1 month in China. They meet each other on a friday evening on the parking place from the company . He just came from the Airport Paris and want to pick up his car which he leave for this month at the company's parking place ,because he take the rental car till the airport and back.
My husband just finish some late work , and so they meet each other.
Sunday evening the college call us and tell us that he is in quarantine because symptoms of Covid-19 and get tested also positive.
Well the rest is history. We also called the authorities where they told us to stay at home ,till we can get tested. Few days later we also get tested and get as result also positive. We was in one of the first wave.
Was not happy,but we had really big luck.

Yes, Maiko is really a ray of light in those hard times

 

[AnimaGemini]

@AnimaGemini - glad you and hubby are ok, and that you both had mild forms of the virus.

My heart is with everyone who is has the virus or has a loved one who does, and with all of those who are suffering financially as a result of so many things closing.

I also want to throw out a huge THANK YOU to people in the medical community, and those in the vital services who are staying out there to keep things open that need to stay open. If you have to go to a store, for example, please thank those who work there (while practicing social distancing, of course!).

Thank you.

The medical staff, store workers have my huge respect. They do an awesome work to keep the countries up and running.

 

[Janet]

So glad you and your husband are okay Anima! Scary stuff.

 

[Jeanne Harmon]

The coronavirus is more easily transmitted, and the percentage of death may well be higher with this than with the seasonal flu - that's not known yet.

More have died from the flu than those who have COVID-19. The death rate percentage is not close to that of the flu.

Based on data from various countries who broadly tested their population (eg South Korea), scientists came to the conclusion that Corona is deadlier.

Seasonal flu percentage is 0.1 - meaning one person out of 1000 will die
Corona percentage will be around 0.5 - 0.7 estimately - aka between 5 to 7 people out of 1000 will die. It may be higher in some countries at the moment, but this is due to lack of testing. Numbers will even out with more tests conducted.

Right now, it's definitely deadlier than the flu because there is no vaccine! Flu has a yearly vaccine; if you don't get the flu shot, it's on you. I'm getting one since over 20 years.

As I hear, many people which recover have issues with the lung for the rest of their lives.

They discovered that recently, that some people have scarring on the lungs for the rest of their lives.
Also a minority will lose their sense of smell and taste for a few days.

Except that children don't get sick from it.

Not true. They get it as well, but rarely show any symptoms. But they can transmit the virus nonetheless. There is even the case of a newborn having corona which is really heartbreaking.

 

[AnimaGemini]

Seasonal flu percentage is 0.1 - meaning one person out of 1000 will die
Corona percentage will be around 0.5 - 0.7 estimately - aka between 5 to 7 people out of 1000 will die. It may be higher in some countries at the moment, but this is due to lack of testing. Numbers will even out with more tests conducted.

True, like I write before, my husbands friend ,which is my former doctor , was telling that Covid-19 claim 1 % lives. And 30 % intensive care. Way deadlier than the normal flue.

Not true. They get it as well, but rarely show any symptoms. But they can transmit the virus nonetheless. There is even the case of a newborn having corona which is really heartbreaking.

What I say, they have the virus, but don't get sick. No symptoms. But are contagious from day 1.

 

[DanaTA]

True, like I write before, my husbands friend ,which is my former doctor , was telling that Covid-19 claim 1 % lives. And 30 % intensive care. Way deadlier than the normal flue.

If you look at the numbers, from the CDC, for flu deaths (which I quoted on the previous page of this thread), the percentage of cases resulting in deaths is 6%. 6 > 1.

I'll not comment on this anymore. It seems people want to believe what they believe. I don't want to argue. I have never said that it is not serious. One death is too much, and a tragedy. However, it is ingenuous to claim that 1% is way deadlier than 6%! Anyway, I wish no ill to anyone. I don't want to be a source of contention or unrest. So, I will now go silent about this.

Dana

 

[Roberta]

In the Bergamo area - one of the most affected areas in Italy - he had to move the coffins of the deceased to the crematoria of other cities with military vehicles.
HERE
you can see a series of slides

 

[Hornet3d]

If you look at the numbers, from the CDC, for flu deaths (which I quoted on the previous page of this thread), the percentage of cases resulting in deaths is 6%. 6 > 1.

I'll not comment on this anymore. It seems people want to believe what they believe. I don't want to argue. I have never said that it is not serious. One death is too much, and a tragedy. However, it is ingenuous to claim that 1% is way deadlier than 6%! Anyway, I wish no ill to anyone. I don't want to be a source of contention or unrest. So, I will now go silent about this.

Dana

It is difficult to be able to respond to this because on one hand I totally accept that you do not want to be the source of contention and unrest and you have been in the forums long enough for us all to know that has never been your intention. That said part of me feels uneasy when any one feels they are in a position where they need to go silent on any subject, let alone one as important as this.

My own personal view is that we don't know how deadly COVID-19 is because there are just not enough tests being done to say with any certainty, where as, we have years of testing for flu. That is a personal view though and no more likely to be right or wrong than anyone else.

I also feel that forums like this are far more important now than they have ever been. Here in the UK many of us are being advised to stay indoors for at least 12 weeks and while that is not a particular hardship for me I know I will be visiting here a lot more as I am very worried about the rest of the Hive and all we get on. It is all in the name, a Hive is a community and it really is the case of the more the merrier.

If you do drop from this thread I totally understand but please continue to stay in touch, we need to be in contact now than ever before and I for one have always valued you input as I am sure many others have.

 

[AnimaGemini]

@DanaTA
Don't go silent. A good discussion lives from controversy . To much people go silent because PC, harassment etc..You have your opinion, others have theirs. This is how we learn from each other. Listen, compare, discuss, sometimes fight but important is that we keep talking to each other and don't go silent.

Stay all you and your family members save and take care of each other. In case of any of you got infected with Covid-19, don't panic, don't freak out. Do what you would do in case of a cold or flu. Stay home, relax and drink tee with Thyme and fresh ginger ( i drink this always a lot when have a cold ). Read a book, stay always hydrated and listen to your body's needs . Measure fever regular and sleep when ever you get tired. Avoid at any costs Ibuprofen. When headache gets to heavy, try paracetamol, or like me herbal tea .
Wish you all the best and hugs to all

 

[Janet]

Hey Roberta! I was wondering how you were doing. What's going on in Italy is brutal. Stay safe!

 

[Jeanne Harmon]

@DanaTA

What Anima said - don't go silent.

Don't go silent. A good discussion lives from controversy . To much people go silent because PC, harassment etc..You have your opinion, others have theirs. This is how we learn from each other. Listen, compare, discuss, sometimes fight but important is that we keep talking to each other and don't go silent.

------------------------
Numbers varies depending on your source. They also vary depending on which numbers where used for the stats. The earliest estimates for a Corona related death rate were between 2 - 4 %, then had dropped to 1.4%. This was in the early stages and mainly Chinese stats. As the virus spread around the globe, the numbers changed. It also depends highly on how many tests are conducted. There is a really high number of undetected/unreported or even undetected recovered cases in some countries. Look alone how fast the numbers in the US have risen after testing expanded and still some experts thinks the number is actually double to triple as high because of the lack of testing /lack of tests kits.

Look at the Corona numbers the WHO states and compare them to Johns Hopkins University. They have a different way of analysing. WHO only takes the numbers submitted by local health offices, Johns Hopkins actively searches for public available data, eg. the WHO, local health offices, but also communitiy boards of medical men, twitter accounts of local health offices etc. Often there a new cases that are already known, but their data hasn't been submitted to the local health department. Therefore Johns Hopkins stats are almost realtime numbers. Risklayer works in a similar way to John Hopkins and their numbers also differs.

If you just compare the numbers of the seasonal flu vs. Corona without any context, sure the number of influenza is higher and therefore deadlier. But we have years of experience with the flu; we have a vaccine; we know a lot about it; we can do something about it to stay safe, namely getting the flu shot. We know almost nothing about Corona; we still discover symtoms; we just learned that Corona can result in lifelong lung problems; scientists assume one is immune after recovering, but they don't know for sure; with luck we have a trial vaccine by winter this year, but spring next year is probably more accurate.

We really can compare stats only, after this pandemic is over and we have a vaccine because that will change numbers once again. Mortality/death rate percentage are only preliminary right now, but they already turned favorably for us. But in the end it looks like Corona will be the deadlier one.

 

[Roberta]

I haven't been out for 3 weeks: it's my husband who goes out for buy food and what he can serve. I am a little worried because he is older than me.
We live in Liguria, in Genoa. When, on the March 8, the first closings (like schools) became known, many Italians living in Lombardy (the one with the most cases of infection) they came for an extra holiday in Liguria, where they had their second home.
You can imagine the reactions of the Ligurians and the authorities.

 

[Jeanne Harmon]

I haven't been out for 3 weeks: it's my husband who goes out for buy food and what he can serve. I am a little worried because he is older than me.
We live in Liguria, in Genoa. When, on the March 8, the first closings (like schools) became known, many Italians living in Lombardy (the one with the most cases of infection) they came for an extra holiday in Liguria, where they had their second home.
You can imagine the reactions of the Ligurians and the authorities.

I was out twice in 3 weeks, but started my second week of isolation today, mainly because of even stricter rules implemented today. I get my groceries delivered, but actually have now to plan a week or more ahead to grab an open slot for delivery (before Corona it was two days ahead). Plus many products are indeed not available which doesn't make it any easier.

 

[Hornet3d]

I haven't been out for 3 weeks: it's my husband who goes out for buy food and what he can serve. I am a little worried because he is older than me.
We live in Liguria, in Genoa. When, on the March 8, the first closings (like schools) became known, many Italians living in Lombardy (the one with the most cases of infection) they came for an extra holiday in Liguria, where they had their second home.
You can imagine the reactions of the Ligurians and the authorities.

We have a similar situation in the south of the UK, Cornwall is a holiday destination where many of those that can afford it have second homes but the authorities in Cornwall are asking second home owners not to travel.

The advice here this weekend was, without question, to stay at home yet many travelled to the seaside of filled the parks because the weather was good. I now suspect that there will be a stronger lockdown that will be imposed on the population and I can understand why. Some of the said parks have already been closed with more to follow. Sadly with such actions along with panic buying I question just how strong the community spirit is in the UK.