Getting used to new habits for Coronavirus....

[eclark1894]

It's less about the denial or whatever, right? It's about curtesy, compassion, or at least civility to others. If the number one thing is "personal freedom" which means doing what *I* want with no regard to others... well... I can do without.

With all due respect, that's not what "personal freedom" means. And it works both ways. Your rights stop where mine begins and my rights stop where yours begins. Where I do agree with you though, and what it seems a lot of people ignore, is being courteous, compassionate and civil to others.

 

[unreal]

With all due respect, that's not what "personal freedom" means. And it works both ways. Your rights stop where mine begins and my rights stop where yours begins. Where I do agree with you though, and what it seems a lot of people ignore, is being courteous, compassionate and civil to others.

I'm curious then... you said my definition was wrong, but offered no alternative definition. I simply equated "personal" with "I" (or "me") and "freedom" with "can do what I want with no regard to others" (aka: can do anything that's possible). Anything less than anything would be a limitation, no?

Is safety a right?

Rights have an order. All rights are not equal.

"Life" was the first right. Liberty was the second. Pursuit of happiness was the third. That order was not accidental. If someone else's liberty is compromising my right to life.

Why is life listed first? Because no human can make it. Consider the wearing as mask. Let's say the pandemic requires mask wearing for 5 years. 5 years where the right to NOT wear a mask in public is suspended. Let's say someone dies of Covid because people were not wearing masks. They are dead forever. Forever vs. 5 years.

 

[eclark1894]

I'm curious then... you said my definition was wrong, but offered no alternative definition. I simply equated "personal" with "I" (or "me") and "freedom" with "can do what I want with no regard to others" (aka: can do anything that's possible). Anything less than anything would be a limitation, no?

Is safety a right?

Rights have an order. All rights are not equal.

"Life" was the first right. Liberty was the second. Pursuit of happiness was the third. That order was not accidental. If someone else's liberty is compromising my right to life.

Why is life listed first? Because no human can make it. Consider the wearing as mask. Let's say the pandemic requires mask wearing for 5 years. 5 years where the right to NOT wear a mask in public is suspended. Let's say someone dies of Covid because people were not wearing masks. They are dead forever. Forever vs. 5 years.

First safety is NOT a right. You can't guarantee someone's safety. You can do your best to try and make someone safe, but you can't guarantee it. I DID give you an alternative definition. I'll do it again. YOUR RIGHTS stop where MINE begin. So no, you can't do anything you want with no regard to others. That's where the courteous, compassionate and civility come into play.

Finally, let's address your last point. If I'm courteous, compassionate and civil, then yes, I'd wear a mask to protect someone who can't wear a mask or get vaccinated. But that's me thinking about others. If others were also doing the same, i.e. people who couldn't wear a mask or get vaccinated, why is it MY responsibilty to be more concerned about their health than they are? For instance, people are supposed to wear safety helmets on construction sites. to reduce the chances of get hit by something that falls. Does that mean that anybody who doesn't work on that site can just walk through sans helmet, and the people working have to stop what they're doing so no one will drop anything that could injure or kill? If they don't stop working, are they inconsiderate, discourteous or uncivil? If I couldn't or want to get vaccinated or wear a mask, I simply don't go around crowds of people where the chances are somebody may not be wearing a mask. Nor would I take someone who wasn't wearing a mask or vaccinated if I were that concerned they may catch COVID.

 

[parkdalegardener]

That Earl is the problem in a nutshell.

"I DID give you an alternative definition. I'll do it again. YOUR RIGHTS stop where MINE begin."

That determination was made by whom? Yelling over and over again the same point does not make it any more palateable. Society tries to maintain a balance of rules and regulations, along with the knowledge of the common good; as a method for groups of individuals to work together to prosper and and proliferate. You, the individual; do not have the "right" to make determinations for the whole. Civil society is seldom civil but the self seen "rights" of some are no more valid than the "rights" of others in the group. You, by your statement; seem to disagree with that assessment. That, in the past; would have had you removed from the society you feel you are more important than.

Your construction site analogy is completely off the mark. Any construction site that allows random people to walk around without safety equipment doesn't legally exist in your country or mine. There is no contractor that will accept responsibility for you becoming injured, or more importantly; dead on their job site. You don't get many large contracts after being sued into the stone age due to a job site accident.

 

[eclark1894]

Whoooosh! That's the sound of the point going over your head.

"That determination was made by whom?" It was made by the framers of the Constitution. I am not proprosing any hard concepts here. Your "personal freedom" extends up until it bumps into mine. We can't all do what we want with no regard for anyone else. Then yes, you will have conflicts. But that's the concept of "personal freedom" that many are making. But it also doesn't mean that everyone else needs to accomodate one or two individuals who either can't or won't mask up. It's simply easier and simpler for those few individuals to avoid or take precautions around others by taking responsibility for their own health and well being than forcing a law on everyone to do it for them. Why is that a hard concept to grasp?

 

[Hornet3d]

In the last few weeks both of my nieces and my younger sister have been infected with COVID as have two of our elderly neighbours. The good news is that none have had to go into hospital, as yet, but they have all been extremely rough with it. So far we seem to have steered clear but then we are still taking the same precautions as we did when in the middle of the pandemic, what others do are up to them.

One of the hobbies that I started during lock down was diamond paining so here are my two latest, as with all such paintings the pictures do no do them justice as they are expected to be viewed from a distance.

In addition to COVID itself we are now suffering from the aftermath. Reports in the UK say that food banks that were used by one in ten it is now being used by up to six in ten as food prices continue to rise. Electric and Gas has doubled in the last few months and petrol is now close to £10 ($12.55) a litre with diesel slightly more expensive. To fully fill up an average diesel now cost over £100 ($125.50).

Travel otherwise is also difficult with people queuing for hours at airports as many flights have been cancelled due to lack of staff as many have not returned to the industry after they were let go during the pandemic. Rail travel is also suffering and there is a national rail strike for three days at the end of June, the days are staggered so essentially the strike will have an impact for at least a week.

Some of this is clearly due to the war in the Ukraine, particularly the energy and petrol prices but it is also true the damage from COVID is still very much on going.

 

[Miss B]

One of the hobbies that I started during lock down was diamond paining so here are my two latest, as with all such paintings the pictures do no do them justice as they are expected to be viewed from a distance.

View attachment 74482

I remember when you started diamond painting, and give you a lot of credit for the patience you'd need for such a hobby.

These two are lovely, and I especially like the scene in the first one.

 

[Hornet3d]

I remember when you started diamond painting, and give you a lot of credit for the patience you'd need for such a hobby.

These two are lovely, and I especially like the scene in the first one.

Thank you, they are both fairly large with the first one being 45cm x 65cm and the second 45cm X 60cm with close to 40 different colours in each. Time wise they have taken me just over a month to do each one but it is something you need to concentrate on so worries about the real world tend to be forced from your mind for a while.

 

[Hornet3d]

Here are the promos for the two paintings which gives a better idea of what they look like from a distance. I am always surprised at how much detail the brain imagines from a distance that is not actually there close up.

 

[Hornet3d]

Even in the darkest of times there can sometimes be a ray of sunshine.

When we purchased our folding bikes it replaced two neglected mountain bikes which I intended to sell on eBay but then found that the all four tyres were perished so I replaced them with new tyres, rim tape and inner tubes. I should have checked the bikes further before buying the tyres though as I then found the derailleur gear selectors did not work. The bikes are 21 speed so there are two selectors on each bike and it was clear that there was no way I was going to recover the cost of replacement by selling the bikes. Reluctantly I put them on eBay as a restoration project or for spares at a price little more the the tyres but they did not sell.

So where is the ray of sunshine, well my wife discovered that the Salvation Army, a charity well known in the UK for looking after the homeless has a project. They take donated bikes and refurbish them to sell in their local shop, but that is not all, they employ people who are homeless to work either in the workshop or on the retail side of the shop. The aim is to give the people more confidence and add to their skill. Great so far, but it does not end there, the bike parts they cannot use are put into what they call the stripped club and cyclist are free to browse and select and parts they can use. The restored bikes are sold but at really low prices in an attempt to encourage more people to cycle.

As far as I can see this really is a win - win situation and we were more than happy to donate our bikes to the cause. The only really sad part is that the have been running since 2011 and this is the first we have heard of it but we intend to do our bit to spread the word.

 

[Miss B]

The Salvation Army is worldwide Hornet, as I've seen references to it here in the USA, though not in recent years. According to Wikipedia, it was established in London, England in the mid-1800s, so they've been around for a while. I just don't think they've been "in the news" much the past couple of decades.

 

[eclark1894]

The Salvation Army is worldwide Hornet, as I've seen references to it here in the USA, though not in recent years. According to Wikipedia, it was established in London, England in the mid-1800s, so they've been around for a while. I just don't think they've been "in the news" much the past couple of decades.

In fact, The Salvation Army was created in 1865 in London. But if you've ever seen one of those Santa Clauses ringing a bell outside a store with a large red kettle for donations, then you've probably seen the Salvation Army.

 

[eclark1894]

Your paintings remind me of a Currier and Ives paintings Hornet.

 

[DanaTA]

The Salvation Army is worldwide Hornet, as I've seen references to it here in the USA, though not in recent years. According to Wikipedia, it was established in London, England in the mid-1800s, so they've been around for a while. I just don't think they've been "in the news" much the past couple of decades.

They're still active in the U.S., very much so. They have Good Will stores all over. And as Earl said, the Santa with the kettle is Salvation Army. They also help out victims of house fires and such. They have bins here and there, usually in mall parking lots, where you can donate clothing and items for the poor. Although, they sell things that are donated, albeit at very low prices. I guess that's to help with the overhead of running their locations.

Dana

 

[Miss B]

In fact, The Salvation Army was created in 1865 in London. But if you've ever seen one of those Santa Clauses ringing a bell outside a store with a large red kettle for donations, then you've probably seen the Salvation Army.

Thanks for the remind, as I used to see them a lot years ago.

 

[Hornet3d]

The Salvation Army is worldwide Hornet, as I've seen references to it here in the USA, though not in recent years. According to Wikipedia, it was established in London, England in the mid-1800s, so they've been around for a while. I just don't think they've been "in the news" much the past couple of decades.

In fact, The Salvation Army was created in 1865 in London. But if you've ever seen one of those Santa Clauses ringing a bell outside a store with a large red kettle for donations, then you've probably seen the Salvation Army.

They're still active in the U.S., very much so. They have Good Will stores all over. And as Earl said, the Santa with the kettle is Salvation Army. They also help out victims of house fires and such. They have bins here and there, usually in mall parking lots, where you can donate clothing and items for the poor. Although, they sell things that are donated, albeit at very low prices. I guess that's to help with the overhead of running their locations.

Dana

Thank you all for the information, I have travelled a lot in Europe over the years, as the job required at the time, but only once visited the United States so I was not aware if the Salvation Army was common place, really glad to hear it is. In the UK they are only really seen out and about around Christmas time as the have some wonderful bands who add massively to the Christmas sprit by providing carol concerts. They are known for their work in the homeless and in my local town they have a hostel that offers rooms for the homeless and it has been there for many years. The bike venture is s relatively recent spin off from the hostel but it is my understanding the anyone in the hostel can look for work in the bike shop.

 

[Hornet3d]

Your paintings remind me of a Currier and Ives paintings Hornet.
View attachment 74557

That is beautiful, I can see why my paintings reminded you. My two large paintings are to replace the massive Cinderella type scene that is normally in the living room, the two new ones are just for over Christmas. I started them early in the year as I had no real idea of how long they would take. I have others to do but none of them have any time frame.

For a while it is back to car making as I did all the cards I needed for the first half of the year before I started these two diamond paintings. Now I need cards for the second half but this also includes Christmas so I have a long list of card to make. Despite that I am hoping I will find some time to keep my limited Poser skills fresh.

 

[Stezza]

the charities downunder are the biggest of rip offs... taking in millions and millions of $$'s for the fire victims and giving out bugger all... "Keeping it for a rainy day" they said... then the floods came.. a good rainy day.... yeah right...

The local charity op shop in my small community is more expensive than buying new from retail.. go figure..

that's why a lot of people are now paying forward directly to those who may be struggling or affected so they know where exactly their money and or goods goes which isn't into the charity execs pockets.

and those charity clothing bins you see in carparks.... you think that goes to charities.... nope... think again...

 

[Hornet3d]

We were more than happy to donate the bikes to the Salvation Army as their work with the homeless is well known but, on the whole, I think many of the charities here in the UK are not very different from the charities you describe and we tend to be very careful on who we give my money to. We never gave to any of the large charities even before the sex scandal of recent years and restrict any cash donations to local charities where we can see first hand what support they provide. For monetary donations we have only three we give to, one is a local hospice who cared for my mother when she was dying. We give a dotation each month to Macmillan Cancer Support for the same reason and finally I usually give to a local charity at Christmas. Some years we are able to donate toys to be distributed to the less well off families but that does not happen each year. Other than that we do not give money to any charities and would never sign up to a direct debit either at the door or in the high street. More recently, with the number of families in the UK using food banks rising from one in ten to six in ten, we have started to add a few items of food to the collection at the local supermarket each time we shop. I guess we have to trust that goes to the right place but at least we know there are not a stream of middle men/women raking off a percentage so that the people truly in need only get a small fraction of what is donated.

There are a few charities I have worked for on a volunteer basis who I would never donate to thanks to the fact it seems to be staffed by loads of volunteers who are only working there because it looked good on their CVs or I have seen first hand how the money was spent and did not approve.

 

[DanaTA]

and those charity clothing bins you see in carparks.... you think that goes to charities.... nope... think again...

Well, here they do. Except when some unethical lowlifes steal things right out of them!

Dana