Getting used to new habits for Coronavirus....

[Miss B]

The carry case I saw at Amazon is not a laminated one. You just drop it inside and it closes up. I'd rather have it with me in case someone asks for proof that I've been vaccinated. I know I wouldn't trust a photo on someone's phone, as you never know if it's been adjusted in a 2D software app, and THEN photographed.

 

[Stezza]

we'll be getting something on the phone with one of those code thingies..
we already have a covid app for when we go to the club or coffee shop that logs us in

everything is pretty much under control downunder.... except for Victorians...

 

[Hornet3d]

We have at least three ways to prove your vaccine status in the UK the first being the card that is filled out when you have the jab. On both my wife's and my visit for the second jab we were the only ones that arrived with the card from the first jab so I guess many were not looking after it that well. There are two digital methods, one using the NHS (National Health Service) app on a tablet or smart phones or via the online site were you can download a .PDF showing your vaccine status.

At present we we can go for a meal or have a haircut or the like fairly easily but social distancing is in effect. For example food orders in a pub are taken at the table or via an app you cannot/will not be served at the bar. Limited attendance at outdoor sporting events is allowed but again usually with social distancing or limited numbers. Indoor events such as theatres are still banned but that was meant to be lifted in a weeks time but it seem likely that they will announced today that the lifting of such restrictions will be delayed for four weeks due to the growing number of the delta variant (originally called the Indian variant) in some parts of the country. At present new cases are doubling every 4.5 days so it is having an impact.

Biggest upset really are for those that booked a holiday, particularly in Portugal, which was on the green list of countries and then, with only a few days notice was moved to the orange list that meant holiday makers had to go in quarantine on their return. End result, mad panic to book flight home before the change came into force and the cost of flight rose higher than most the planes did. Some saw the holiday makers plight with compassion while others thought they were a bit short sighted in booking a holiday when the future was so unclear.

Arguments have raged for months between those that want the restrictions lifted like yesterday and those wanting a more cautious approach, so far polls (if you believe them) suggest the majority of the country want to take the cautious route.

As for us, most of this is just an interesting subject that affects us little and while we have both had our two jabs more than two weeks ago our lifestyle has remained roughly the same now for about 18 months. The only thing I find a little galling is all the media experts saying everyone is feed up with the restrictions and everyone is dying to take International holidays, clearly my wife and I are not included in the term everyone. That said, the habit of media pundits who profess to speak on my behalf has always annoyed me and long before any pandemic.

 

[mrsparky]

Oh Hornet you ain't alone in those feelings. Even if someone is a fervent non believer in the science, a simple truth is countries have changed their minds quicker than some politicans can re-decorate their apartments.

So why pay out 100's in testing fees, then 1000's on booking extra flights, spending 3/4 of a holiday rushing back to an airport or getting quarantined? And for what ? A few photoshopped social media snaps that could've been done on Bognor beach ?

The other thing is since we've started heading towards normality I'm finding 2 things are happening.
People are either desperate to go out, or worried about going out.
Either way sometimes people need some help and increasingly support services are either closed or worse still, gone virtual.

The former sometimes happens because officialdom says no one is using a service.
A tad tricky when the doors have been locked for the last year
With the latter, while zoom, teams etc are useful, it's not the same as a face to face meet.

Thus then where does someone turn? Answer to whoever/wherever they can, which is why I've not managed to do any poser stuff for the last 6 months. So no, I don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who thinks a holiday is a "right".

 

[Satira Capriccio]

I'm not in that "everyone" status either. I haven't flown anywhere since 2006, and I am in no hurry to change that status. I'm also in no rush to return to the office or to go out to eat (I didn't do that before the Pandemic, why would I do that now?). I'm one of those anxious about being out in public again, and around people who refused to wear masks or social distance when the mandates were in place. Why would I want to be around those people ever again?

We were just notified by email that anyone who goes into the office is now allowed not to wear a mask at all, as long as they have provided proof they are fully vaccinated. For the last year, we were required to wear a mask in the office unless sitting in an office or at your desk. I wasn't happy with people being allowed not to wear a mask while sitting at their desk (when they started talking months ago about us returning to work shortly), considering our desks are less than 3 feet apart, and I sure am NOT happy about anyone being allowed not to wear a mask at all around me while in the office.

It's not enough to be "fully vaccinated," your body also needs to have produced antibodies as a result of the vaccine. Not everyone does, and that's being glossed over. Those older and those with immunocompromised conditions or on medication that compromise the immune system may not develop antibodies or enough antibodies to protect them (or us). Therefore, not everyone "fully vaccinated" is "unable" to become infected and contagious. Given something like 40-45% of Americans were asymptomatic and more than half of all COVID-19 infections in the US came from asymptomatic people, AND that only 35.6% of those in Philadelphia have been fully vaccinated ... what is the rush to lift all restrictions, including masks?

Yay! So glad people can go out to eat, out to bars, mingle in crowds, and not wear masks ... as long as they stay completely away from me. Like at least in another state.

 

[Hornet3d]

Oh Hornet you ain't alone in those feelings. Even if someone is a fervent non believer in the science, a simple truth is countries have changed their minds quicker than some politicans can re-decorate their apartments.

So why pay out 100's in testing fees, then 1000's on booking extra flights, spending 3/4 of a holiday rushing back to an airport or getting quarantined? And for what ? A few photoshopped social media snaps that could've been done on Bognor beach ?

The other thing is since we've started heading towards normality I'm finding 2 things are happening.
People are either desperate to go out, or worried about going out.
Either way sometimes people need some help and increasingly support services are either closed or worse still, gone virtual.

The former sometimes happens because officialdom says no one is using a service.
A tad tricky when the doors have been locked for the last year
With the latter, while zoom, teams etc are useful, it's not the same as a face to face meet.

Thus then where does someone turn? Answer to whoever/wherever they can, which is why I've not managed to do any poser stuff for the last 6 months. So no, I don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who thinks a holiday is a "right".

Well long before covid some people worried about going out used to have a crisis team to help support them and give them manageable targets. Strange thing was though that the team was only there Monday to Friday so at weekends many of those with such needs turned to the Samaritans for help. Of course the Samaritans were neither trained for, or had access to their case file so even with their best efforts the help I suspect was marginal.

If we struggled as a society to deal with mental health before the pandemic what chance do we have when cases will have sky rocketed during lock down.

I struggle with the media when the spend masses of time with those complaining about spoilt holidays but minimal time with those whose treatment for cancer and heart conditions that have been suspended for well over a year. I should not be surprised though when we live in a world where we pay millions to someone to kick a ball around but struggle to pay a living wage to some doctors and nurses who we expect to put their lives on the line at times like these.

Feelings like this and the fact I am missing this desperate need to fly off for a few weeks to another country where the percentage of the population who have had Covid jabs is a lot lower than at home only goes to show how out of step I am with the norm or should I say everyone else.

 

[Hornet3d]

I'm not in that "everyone" status either. I haven't flown anywhere since 2006, and I am in no hurry to change that status. I'm also in no rush to return to the office or to go out to eat (I didn't do that before the Pandemic, why would I do that now?). I'm one of those anxious about being out in public again, and around people who refused to wear masks or social distance when the mandates were in place. Why would I want to be around those people ever again?

We were just notified by email that anyone who goes into the office is now allowed not to wear a mask at all, as long as they have provided proof they are fully vaccinated. For the last year, we were required to wear a mask in the office unless sitting in an office or at your desk. I wasn't happy with people being allowed not to wear a mask while sitting at their desk (when they started talking months ago about us returning to work shortly), considering our desks are less than 3 feet apart, and I sure am NOT happy about anyone being allowed not to wear a mask at all around me while in the office.

It's not enough to be "fully vaccinated," your body also needs to have produced antibodies as a result of the vaccine. Not everyone does, and that's being glossed over. Those older and those with immunocompromised conditions or on medication that compromise the immune system may not develop antibodies or enough antibodies to protect them (or us). Therefore, not everyone "fully vaccinated" is "unable" to become infected and contagious. Given something like 40-45% of Americans were asymptomatic and more than half of all COVID-19 infections in the US came from asymptomatic people, AND that only 35.6% of those in Philadelphia have been fully vaccinated ... what is the rush to lift all restrictions, including masks?

Yay! So glad people can go out to eat, out to bars, mingle in crowds, and not wear masks ... as long as they stay completely away from me. Like at least in another state.

I agree with all that. The other problem is that, should there be a variant that is more contagious than the Delta virus which is already something like 4 times more transmissible that the original strain or more resistant to the vaccine it is those without masks that are going to get hit first. I would rather not take that risk.

I guess my biggest struggle is with the concept that we can return to normal, firstly that is just not possible and was the norm really that great that it is the best we can aim for in the future?

 

[Satira Capriccio]

The norm wasn't all that great for me. The last 14+ months has proven my job can be done rather well (better even) from home than in an cubicle environment with constant distractions.

But managers can't handle not feeling they are in control. Even though my immediate supervisor prefers to work from home 5 days a week, and he would probably allow us to do so if it was his decision (because if we were allowed to work from home 5 days a week, so could he)

But the department director and other managers want us in the office. Even though, they rarely ever interact with us.

 

[Hornet3d]

The norm wasn't all that great for me. The last 14+ months has proven my job can be done rather well (better even) from home than in an cubicle environment with constant distractions.

But managers can't handle not feeling they are in control. Even though my immediate supervisor prefers to work from home 5 days a week, and he would probably allow us to do so if it was his decision (because if we were allowed to work from home 5 days a week, so could he)

But the department director and other managers want us in the office. Even though, they rarely ever interact with us.

I would suspect it is not only a question of being in control but also trying to make it look as though their job is important enough to keep them employed.

 

[eclark1894]

I would suspect it is not only a question of being in control but also trying to make it look as though their job is important enough to keep them employed.

Most employees have no real idea of what managers do all day. Managers manage. I've had jobs where I never once saw the owner or the higher ups. The manager may simply be doing what he's allowed to do. He may have already have had that "working at home" talk with an owner or higher up and got shot down. Just sayin'.

 

[AnimaGemini]

I would suspect it is not only a question of being in control but also trying to make it look as though their job is important enough to keep them employed.

Hmmm... My Husband is in the higher management and had not the possibility to stay at home. 3 days per week he was in the company , with a handful other from the management , while the rest could stay at home for working from home.
I think most people have really a wrong POV from the higher managements work. I don't want to go in details but working often till 8-9 in the evening , have to cancel holidays , always telephone from company on, even at weekends , travelling half the year from one Continent to the next .
Your sentence is for me to pausal. See many of this people with heavy burn out and collapse , including my husband a few years ago.

 

[Hornet3d]

Hmmm... My Husband is in the higher management and had not the possibility to stay at home. 3 days per week he was in the company , with a handful other from the management , while the rest could stay at home for working from home.
I think most people have really a wrong POV from the higher managements work. I don't want to go in details but working often till 8-9 in the evening , have to cancel holidays , always telephone from company on, even at weekends , travelling half the year from one Continent to the next .
Your sentence is for me to pausal. See many of this people with heavy burn out and collapse , including my husband a few years ago.

Yep I accept that and on the whole I have a high regard for managers at the top of companies my gripe is more the middle management who generally tell the upper management what they want to hear rather than the truth. There are exceptions of course such as owners who asset strip a company and then sell it for £1 with a big whole in the pension pot. You have to understand that I am looking at this from a very UK point of view, over here we don't jail people like that we give them a knighthood and then expect the rest of the population to look up to them with reverence.

The other point to keep in mind is that, with few exceptions, we do not train our middle management in the UK. When I started as as an apprentice in British Telecom (or the post office as it was then) I had to go on around 3 inhouse training courses each year along with additional technical training. I reached the level of Technical Officer but to do that and maintain that I had to continue to train as telecommunications continued on it's rapid development. In almost twenty years there was never a year where I did not attend at least two training courses and one year it was seven. Training courses for management consisted of ...... well nothing. There was no real test of abilities (technical or man management) for promotion to or within the management ranks and all promotion was by board selection. Trouble is if you have a board made up of idiots they are not going to recommend anyone that would show them up and so they self propagate. Don't get me wrong I am not having a go at BT here, it was a great company to work for and generally management were promoted to levels where their particular degree of incompetence had little effect on the day to day running of the company. No nothing wrong with BT in particular as this is how many companies work here in the UK

One final point, I was a trade union secretary for around five years so that would make me hate high management right. Wrong I worked with members of the higher management on a regular basis and found I could not only work with them but I could trust them, what a shame I could not say the same for the for some of the middle management and some of my union members who created most of the problems.

When I left BT I went to work for a North American and found the management structure to be very different. Something I kept in mind as I moved from company to company and I did not join a trade union ever again, let alone be an active member, basically because there was no need.

 

[eclark1894]

I once had a job in a restaurant. Obviously not a job you can do from home. Anyway, whenever a new employee or manager came into the restaurant, guess who usually had to train them? Never got a raise from it, and most times, since I had been doing it so long, I had discovered shortcuts or better ways to get something done. But, whenever a higher up came to visit, they would shoot down the idea and we'd have to do things the way the test kitchen had indicated. So I actually appreciate managers. Never wanted to be one myself.

A few years back, I was a security guard. I was asked more than once if I wanted to move up and be a sergeant. It DID come with a raise, but I just never wanted the responsibility or the extra work. and when I was in college I was put in charge of our college radio station. It was fun for awhile, but then again, there was the responsibility. If someone couldn't make it in to do their shift for whatever reason or whatever time, if I couldn't get someone to fill that slot I had to go on. College students aren't the most reliable people in the world. I spent one summer as practically the only dj on the air at night.

 

[Hornet3d]

I once had a job in a restaurant. Obviously not a job you can do from home. Anyway, whenever a new employee or manager came into the restaurant, guess who usually had to train them? Never got a raise from it, and most times, since I had been doing it so long, I had discovered shortcuts or better ways to get something done. But, whenever a higher up came to visit, they would shoot down the idea and we'd have to do things the way the test kitchen had indicated. So I actually appreciate managers. Never wanted to be one myself.

A few years back, I was a security guard. I was asked more than once if I wanted to move up and be a sergeant. It DID come with a raise, but I just never wanted the responsibility or the extra work. and when I was in college I was put in charge of our college radio station. It was fun for awhile, but then again, there was the responsibility. If someone couldn't make it in to do their shift for whatever reason or whatever time, if I couldn't get someone to fill that slot I had to go on. College students aren't the most reliable people in the world. I spent one summer as practically the only dj on the air at night.

I can relate to that I never wanted to be a manger mainly because I always felt there were two types of managers those that cannot manage and those that can but are often not allowed to.

I left telecommunications when I was made redundant and decided I wanted to leave the long hours and two and a half hours a day travel each day behind. I made the conscious decision to down shift and a few years later I was working in a camera shop. The manager was sacked mainly for spending 95% of his time sat in the office browsing eBay, well that and the odd time when a days banking went missing. I was offered the job which I initially turned down but I was asked by the remaining four staff to reconsider. I did and took the job, it worse decision I ever made even though I was told on more than one occasion I made a good manager but I hated almost every minute of it. Strange thing was I found the missing days takings in the safe hidden under some documents so the previous manager did not steal it he was just too wound up with eBay to find the time to bank it.

With the onset off Covid such memories seem to be part of another life.

 

[AnimaGemini]

Yep I accept that and on the whole I have a high regard for managers at the top of companies my gripe is more the middle management who generally tell the upper management what they want to hear rather than the truth.

Maybe it depends what branch. What I know for sure, in the Engineer branch, even the middle management work his a.. off.

You have to understand that I am looking at this from a very UK point of view, over here we don't jail people like that we give them a knighthood and then expect the rest of the population to look up to them with reverence.

I can assure you, here in France the same. Some Branches are sacrosaint ( like Bank etc..) While others not. My husband has to sign every new improvement which goes out in mass production. ( Parts for cars, Aviation, Industrie robots) , he has to be 100% sure that there are ZERO safety issues with the parts. (Like car lodges which opens during driving or lock by its own. ) Also that in in the production Facilities are no errors with mass productions and the assembly lines dont stop to work. Which would cost the company per day a fortune . If anything would happen , his head would roll. But for some mysterious reason, Banker get their Golden Parachute and can go home.

When I started as as an apprentice in British Telecom (or the post office as it was then) I had to go on around 3 inhouse training courses each year along with additional technical training. I reached the level of Technical Officer but to do that and maintain that I had to continue to train as telecommunications continued on it's rapid development. In almost twenty years there was never a year where I did not attend at least two training courses and one year it was seven

Yeah, never ending training. But here in my Husbands company also all the Engineers get trained. It is most of the time my husband who train them and a another main Engineer . Trainings on complex new software for design safety parts , simulations etc... Fortunately his many seminars ended a few years ago when he got the Black Belt for Problem solving. Was his last one, but the most time intensive one too.

One final point, I was a trade union secretary for around five years so that would make me hate high management right. Wrong I worked with members of the higher management on a regular basis and found I could not only work with them but I could trust them, what a shame I could not say the same for the for some of the middle management and some of my union members who created most of the problems.

I think arrogant, worst people you find in high, middle management and also in normal worker. In the former company where my husband worked , the higher management Engineers get bullied by the woman from the assembly line. True story. They refuse to comply when get asked from the Engineers to change some stuff in their production. They feel discriminated and complain in the human resource . Even when they get told that when they continue with this wrong productions, the parts will all come back and it will cost probably the contract with Peugeot .
Their answer, "at last we work and not like you sit in the office watch Po.. and ....(well i will not write it out. ) What happens next was a Joke. All the higher management Engineers receive a seminar again discrimination and the woman become right spoken.
This company was an American one and at this time they begin to make some woke policies. Well today they are on the way to leave Europe, because loose almost the whole market. You can not make woke policies when it comes to the safety of millions of people. ( Car lodges, children safety seats, roof windows from cars etc..)
It is may OT , but just to show you, jerks you find in every positions. Funny fact, all the Engineers have all somewhere else a new job, including my husband. The woman from the production leave the company after it closed in the Vosges and in Sully, unemployed.

 

[Hornet3d]

I can see from the description of your husbands work it is clearly hard and responsible job but I suspect in the UK he would not be regarded as a manager. Don't get me wrong he clearly is a manager but in many UK companies his engineering skills and responsibilities would be reflected in a title which would not be place him in the pure management stream.

I think your last point highlighted this point in that in British Telecom the highest level you could reach was Technical Officer when the BT was privatised many left, either before or just after, and no Technical Officer I knew who wanted to work was left unemployed for very long (many decided it was a good time to retire). The same was not true of the managers not that there weren't some very good managers there but they did not carry the sort of certificates like the technical Officer had to show their skill set.

In one sense this is really of topic but I have a feeling much of this will change as the world learns to live with Covid as it has accelerated change that was already in progress, not only just on line shopping but the use of 3D printers and a drive to improve remote learning.

 

[eclark1894]

Funny thing... I wrote a story years ago while I was still on America Online about children learning virtually. Of course in my story there was no pandemic going on, but the kids learned via a holographic system. Somewhat like on Star Trek's Holodeck. Anyway, you're right in saying that some of the changes we've experience was already in progress. Working from home has been a goal in the business world literally for decades now. It's kind of funny that you don't even hear the word "fax" any more, but that was one of the original reasons it was actually invented. If fact, i just bought a new printer for my computer that has a fax in it. I think...

 

[AnimaGemini]

I can see from the description of your husbands work it is clearly hard and responsible job but I suspect in the UK he would not be regarded as a manager. Don't get me wrong he clearly is a manager but in many UK companies his engineering skills and responsibilities would be reflected in a title which would not be place him in the pure management stream.

And yet here you are wrong. There are the normal Engineers , the project leader and the ones who lead and coordinate the whole teams country/Europe and Wordlwide where ever the company is. His old company operated in England also, from there they had the English Main Engineer who coordinated everything what came from England. Which means he was above all other Engineer from the English site and this qualify as higher management. They manage and coordinate. Than there are specialists like my husband who operate wordlwide for the company , coordinate, solve problems , analyze and work with teams around the globe.

 

[AnimaGemini]

Forget, he has a special tittle btw.

 

[AnimaGemini]

In one sense this is really of topic but I have a feeling much of this will change as the world learns to live with Covid as it has accelerated change that was already in progress, not only just on line shopping but the use of 3D printers and a drive to improve remote learning.

I think yes , you are right. Many things can be done via improved zoom conference. Not full there till now, but we are on the right path. The biggest challenge will be the infrastructure.