Discussion about content

[Hornet3d]

Sadly I recall mostly being an outcast in school and told more than once by teachers I brought bullying on myself and deserved it because I "didn't try to fit in or conform". I learned far more outside of school by asking and researching what interested me, and questioning what I didn't understand than I did in school which seemed more focused on creating good little conforming drones that didn't ask questions or stand out.

I can't say I remembered being bullied but I was certainly a lone wolf and felt I was some how different. I remember that, rather than the latest pop hit, I was more likely to be found listening to the 1812 Overture. I was rubbish at art and woodwork, couldn't sing and I have never been gods gift to women and sometime during my teenage years I decided I did not like beer or spirits that much. Made me more popular as I then became the perennial driver. I married young but sadly my first wife died very young so the marriage was a short one.

Despite that I regard myself as being lucky, I had a great, well paid career despite not going to university, I did a telecoms apprenticeship instead. In over forty years I spent a total of 11 months unemployed over the whole period. I found my sole mate and we have have been married for forty years. So I have had a charmed life in many ways but it is strange that my Poser experience has often reflected life as well. I dislike violence and people being abused, one reason for not liking the flame wars that Poser and D/S seem to generate. Not that this is limited to 3D art as the Mac verses PC debate used to generate similar wars. I have enjoyed over twenty years of playing with Poser and having fun and cannot understand those that seem to promote it way above the level of a hobby and generally do not seem to be happy. Why would you continue to do something that does not make you happy.

Despite my rather dire outlook on the world we live in I manage to shut myself away and generally enjoy life. Poser is much the same in that I do not have to look very far to see the bad side of the hobby so I just don't look.

I think also we do tend to just judge a book by it's cover or in this case content by the promos. I have purchased some pretty dire content over the years many with some great promos. On the other hand I have also purchased content with some real lack lustre promos that have turned out to be real gems.

 

[eclark1894]

Sadly I recall mostly being an outcast in school and told more than once by teachers I brought bullying on myself and deserved it because I "didn't try to fit in or conform". I learned far more outside of school by asking and researching what interested me, and questioning what I didn't understand than I did in school which seemed more focused on creating good little conforming drones that didn't ask questions or stand out.

A "teacher" told you that?

 

[KageRyu]

A "teacher" told you that?

multiple teachers and an elementary school principal even put it in writing to my parents. It was the 70's - this was the mentality then.

 

[Ken1171]

I am happy most people here have an open mind about what has happened to the world of Poser content, and how did it get to how it is now. I have to admit this is the first time in years I was not kicked out for stating what has happened in the past. Some would tell me I was entitled to have my opinion, but I think there is a difference between opinions and history. I was there when it happened, I saw it happen, and they still claimed it was my opinion - or worse, that it didn't happen. Not being able to state what had already happened has contributed to not being able to prevent the consequences.

I believe when people claim the community has become hostile, maybe that's what they meant. The spread of misinformation that caused conflict between people, and our inability to call things for what they were. Legions of loyal crowds defending a rumor until it became "truth". It's the herd behavior that seems to dominate the web these days, parroting ideas as it they were their own, using ready-made sentences others promptly agree without questioning. It seems like the more people in a crowd, the easier it becomes to maneuver it.

Many of us came to HW in an attempt to escape from that.

multiple teachers and an elementary school principal even put it in writing to my parents. It was the 70's - this was the mentality then.

My dad put me in martial arts because I was being bullied even before entering school, so he wanted me to learn self-defense early on. Comes down the school bully came straight to me right on the first day. I must have that kind of look, who knows? He punched me hard, and I punched him harder. After a moment of shocked, we became friends, and he later joined me in martial arts, becoming state champion a few years later. Martial arts has changed him, teaching him respect and discipline. He became a different person, and this all happened because he was baffled how a smaller guy like me could punch so hard. LOL one less bully in this world. I still remember the first time he didn't disobey his father, and even said "yes, sir". His mother had tears in her eyes for how much he had changed. Nowadays he is one of the funniest guys I know. I have seen martial arts changing kids into better persons many times since them. It is a beautiful thing to see.

 

[Rae134]

I like the HW forums because we can have an adult conversation most of the time without it starting to get personal or into a war (and it will get moderated if it starts to come to that).
But on the whole we're a peaceful bunch

 

[Stezza]

multiple teachers and an elementary school principal even put it in writing to my parents. It was the 70's - this was the mentality then.

We were beaten by the teachers in my school years, punched, slapped, whipped and more... didn’t have any classroom bullies!

 

[MEC4D]

They cared more about who makes the figure than the figure itself. Makes me wonder what kind of reception Dawn 2 will receive.

Not exactly, people investing a lot of money in their hobby figures , they will not want to change their favorite figure for any other and start from zero, many of them are collectors buying stuff not even once using it. Now for a new figure to have a star status it need to be at last more attractive from what they have already to be even bother with. You see my fav figures was Gen2 and 3, did not bother much after and a lot of my professional customer still request custom work for the older figures and not for the last one.

Dawn 2 need to shine, and technically better will not really sell her as many users don't care about the technical side as long it pose well and looks good in a picture and is easy to use. We living right now in a world where the good look matters first and the illustrators looking for the wow factor of their audience on social medias. It is like with the design bag , look everyone what I have , just for show off . So if someone make a render of a figure that don't even look dissent to the standards of today, it not gonna get attention and become abandoned quickly. It become another misfit. Not because it was technically well made, because it did not had the wow factor to be loved outside the community where it was created.

The 3D Artists skills of today are brilliant , that are 1000 times beyond Daz3D and others, just visit Zbrush Central , it is not like 25 years ago where the group was so little with zero resources and minimal tools, the level and skills of people today are beyond everything we share in our community. And it getting harder and harder to shine on the big platform.

All we need is more support from 3D artists that will create amazing content for Dawn2 to be taken seriously by people that use already better looking characters and content. This means Dawn2 need to be a serious competitor in this game and nobody else but us going to be responsible for her success. But somehow I have a very good feelings this time .. finger crossed

 

[McGyver]

We were beaten by the teachers in my school years, punched, slapped, whipped and more... didn’t have any classroom bullies!

That wasn’t so much of an issue with public schools in the US when I was a kid... so my parents sent me to catholic school to get around that... seriously NEVER piss off a nun.
Never.
Ever.
Just no.

 

[Hornet3d]

That wasn’t so much of an issue with public schools in the US when I was a kid... so my parents sent me to catholic school to get around that... seriously NEVER piss off a nun.
Never.
Ever.
Just no.

My childhood education was also in a catholic school and you are dead right about staying on the right side of the nuns. One incident I do remember was a group of girls being told in no uncertain terms that open-toed sandals were not to be worn in school as the sight of such cold arouse the passion of the boys. It is a wonder I did not end my school days with a massive foot fetish.

 

[Rae134]

Dawn 2 need to shine, and technically better will not really sell her as many users don't care about the technical side as long it pose well and looks good in a picture and is easy to use.

I think most artist don't understand the technically side of things (rather than don't care about it), I know I don't. Yes, easy of use (especially for beginners) is needed, you still need it to be technically up to scratch with the current software otherwise you're shooting your self in the foot.

For example LF has face chips, which helps to move a part of the face individually to the other side giving it a more realistic appearance (most people wouldn't notice the asymmetrical appearance but the brain sub consciously does so minimise the "uncanny valley" effect), if a newer figure comes out that doesn't contact that or similar tech then the newer figure is starting to fall behind from the get go. (pretty sure this is the main difference between G8 and G8.1).

So people might not know or understand why a product is technically better, I do think its important for the tech to be up-to-date because the more you learn the better your art will be and if the character is limited because it lacks features, it will make people want to move on to one that has them.

 

[Hornet3d]

Not exactly, people investing a lot of money in their hobby figures , they will not want to change their favorite figure for any other and start from zero, many of them are collectors buying stuff not even once using it. Now for a new figure to have a star status it need to be at last more attractive from what they have already to be even bother with. You see my fav figures was Gen2 and 3, did not bother much after and a lot of my professional customer still request custom work for the older figures and not for the last one.

Dawn 2 need to shine, and technically better will not really sell her as many users don't care about the technical side as long it pose well and looks good in a picture and is easy to use. We living right now in a world where the good look matters first and the illustrators looking for the wow factor of their audience on social medias. It is like with the design bag , look everyone what I have , just for show off . So if someone make a render of a figure that don't even look dissent to the standards of today, it not gonna get attention and become abandoned quickly. It become another misfit. Not because it was technically well made, because it did not had the wow factor to be loved outside the community where it was created.

The 3D Artists skills of today are brilliant , that are 1000 times beyond Daz3D and others, just visit Zbrush Central , it is not like 25 years ago where the group was so little with zero resources and minimal tools, the level and skills of people today are beyond everything we share in our community. And it getting harder and harder to shine on the big platform.

All we need is more support from 3D artists that will create amazing content for Dawn2 to be taken seriously by people that use already better looking characters and content. This means Dawn2 need to be a serious competitor in this game and nobody else but us going to be responsible for her success. But somehow I have a very good feelings this time .. finger crossed

I think you touch on another point and that is a lot of the criticism of the figures is to do with the technical aspect, I know this was certainly true of Scarlet. For the average hobbyist this is not an issue as long as the figure works for them. It is also easy to forget that the majority of any figures users is that they do not visit forums so they are not aware of a lot of this. All they are likely to see is some throw away remark on social media somewhere that Dawn does not work in Poser. From there on in they will not only believe that but they regurgitate the same at some point down the line.

To a point this the same is true if the figure is question is hard to make clothes for, the average users is never going to make clothes so they don't care. As long as enough people take up the challenge to make clothing for that figure users are not bothered, they only want to be able to buy content.

For me Hivewire3D works because the environment was created in a way that posters respect each other. They may not agree but they agree to differ not only that but there appears to be a genuine interest in different points of view on the same subject. What a shame the same it not true for life in general.

 

[eclark1894]

We were beaten by the teachers in my school years, punched, slapped, whipped and more... didn’t have any classroom bullies!

I was either high school or Junior high in the 70s. I graduated in '76, so I had outgrown spankings back then. Good thing too. Every principle I ever had from elementary to high school knew me by first name and on sight, knew my mother and even what church I went to. Fortunately, I never got into TOO much trouble. I couldn't afford to.

 

[RAMWolff]

Oh I was an outsider for sure in school. OMG. I got picked on pretty badly but I did have kids that liked me too so I just tried to avoid the asshole bullies as much as I could!

 

[DanaTA]

I hear that, Rich!

Dana

 

[Stezza]

That wasn’t so much of an issue with public schools in the US when I was a kid... so my parents sent me to catholic school to get around that... seriously NEVER piss off a nun.
Never.
Ever.
Just no.

lol

yep, was the nuns and then the brothers in high school!

 

[DanaTA]

I didn't get that far. After the terrible experience in first grade, I tried to skip school every day in second grade. I'd get caught by a truant officer...every day. Mom finally got the message and transferred me to a public school.

The nuns were mean! And they'd grab you by the ear and bend and twist it as they dragged you around. Also, they never "spared the rod". One little mistake, like, "deliver us from eagles", and whack!

Dana

 

[Stezza]

I got caught as well skipping school... was only 11 at the time but thought it a safer option

 

[DanaTA]

I got caught as well skipping school... was only 11 at the time but thought it a safer option

I was only 5 when I went into first grade...so 6 when I was trying to skip school. Between the project where I lived and the school, was downtown. I'd go into the stores. One of the 5&10 stores had a pet department, and I was fascinated with the fish and the birds.

Dana

 

[Barb]

Hello, everyone! This is my first ever post to the forum, so please excuse if I've gotten this comment way out of order. I read through the early comments in this thread about how the outlets for Poser models are dwindling - even on Rendo, which sells the software -- and I wanted to chime in.
I am just a hobbyist (so far) who uses models rather than creates them, and I throw rose petals -- ROSE PETALS I tell you! -- at the feet of the people who make the models. I use Poser, am having lots of fun with it, and I can't understand why DS models are now edging out the Poser models on Rendo. About a year and a half ago when I first started, it seemed that most models there worked on both Poser and DS.
Anyway, the thing I wanted to ask the artists who are looking for an outlet for their Poser stuff -- Have you considered selling your models on Turbosquid? Hobbyist though I am, I do find a few things on Turbosquid, and I would be THRILLED if their Poser selection started to grow. Any thoughts about this?

PS: Here is my cat-infested starship bridge. You wouldn't want to deprive me of these simple pleasures, would you? PLEASE find a way to keep the Poser models coming! ; )

 

[theschell]

I am happy most people here have an open mind about what has happened to the world of Poser content, and how did it get to how it is now. I have to admit this is the first time in years I was not kicked out for stating what has happened in the past. Some would tell me I was entitled to have my opinion, but I think there is a difference between opinions and history. I was there when it happened, I saw it happen, and they still claimed it was my opinion - or worse, that it didn't happen. Not being able to state what had already happened has contributed to not being able to prevent the consequences.

I believe when people claim the community has become hostile, maybe that's what they meant. The spread of misinformation that caused conflict between people, and our inability to call things for what they were. Legions of loyal crowds defending a rumor until it became "truth". It's the herd behavior that seems to dominate the web these days, parroting ideas as it they were their own, using ready-made sentences others promptly agree without questioning. It seems like the more people in a crowd, the easier it becomes to maneuver it.

Many of us came to HW in an attempt to escape from that.



My dad put me in martial arts because I was being bullied even before entering school, so he wanted me to learn self-defense early on. Comes down the school bully came straight to me right on the first day. I must have that kind of look, who knows? He punched me hard, and I punched him harder. After a moment of shocked, we became friends, and he later joined me in martial arts, becoming state champion a few years later. Martial arts has changed him, teaching him respect and discipline. He became a different person, and this all happened because he was baffled how a smaller guy like me could punch so hard. LOL one less bully in this world. I still remember the first time he didn't disobey his father, and even said "yes, sir". His mother had tears in her eyes for how much he had changed. Nowadays he is one of the funniest guys I know. I have seen martial arts changing kids into better persons many times since them. It is a beautiful thing to see.

I like the fact that we've been able to have an open and honest convo about things in our community as well. I suspect that had we been allowed to have conversations like this one in the places that they should have taken place (in the forums of the companies that caused the mess, rather than being denied the chance to have a say in what was then happening) we might not have had the years of venom that we have had as a result. I also suspect a ton of issues could have been avoided had certain companies been more willing to listen to the long-term user base instead of just looking to line their pocket books by ignoring or banning viewpoints that dissented with their business decisions. The thing that has always bothered me the most is that us 3rd Party Vendors wound up getting the garbage end of the stick and got blamed for loss of business when in fact it was poor business decisions on the part of those companies that was actually causing their losses, but we all got made the scape-goat since it's always easier to blame someone else. Blaming the 3rd party vendors and cutting us off from access to our primary customer base is in large part what has led to the loss of much of what our community used to offer for our tool boxes, and was rather like cutting off their noses to spite their faces...

I got bullied mercilessly in school, and had my mom and the teachers telling me that I was causing it, it didn't stop till I fought back... bullies pick on the weak and once you put up a fight they'll move on. I followed the rules and reported the bullying to my teachers but all that ever did was just make the bullying worse and it wasn't till I knocked a few heads that it finally came to an end. Oddly my best friend of 30 years is one of the bullies that had been picking on me in elementary school, and like your friend we became buddies after we'd finally had it out... he's been my closest and most loyal friend ever since. It's kinda funny how things like that work out...