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Dawn 2.0 Underway

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
When Chris was making additions to Dawn's morphs in SR1 and SR2, I remember asking for smiling expressions with "less facial creasing", but I couldn't explain what that meant. Maybe showing is better than explaining. I know that Dawn's expressions take into account realistic facial muscle groups, but I think those things vary with age, where the older we get, the deeper those features become.

I wish I could make Dawn smile with less cheek creasing, because that would give her a more jovial look. I also wish she had more smiling variety. In all these years, I have found myself always using the "Joy" smile because the other smiles didn't seem to fit the occasion.

Having that said, below is Terai Yuki 2 showing some of her mouth and lip expressions, where top left is her neutral face, and mid left is her "relaxed lips". Note she basically never creases the cheeks, which may be a feature of her semi-realistic style, but I believe it does give her a more jovial look. It is worth noticing that TY2 is an old, obsolete figure, and she's not very versatile - but what people remember the most about her are her expressions. She's one of the very few figures where we can push her expression dials to max values and she still looks pretty.

TY2_Expressions.jpg


I know TY2 is not a realistic figure like Dawn is, but I wish I had an option to make Dawn smile without creasing the cheeks so much. I also like how TY2 smiles in several different ways, sometimes with subtle differences that I find easy to place in my scenes. Dawn has some of these expressions, but I wish I had more to play with. So much that sometimes I replace Dawn's head with TY2's just to get a specific expression, even when TY2 has very few mouth dials.

And here's one morph from Maelwenn's Elisa that I use in almost all Dawn renders nowadays: "Elisa Lips Parted". I would call it "Lips Relaxed" instead, and I use it as a permanent replacement for DawnSE's "Mouth Parted". I love this shape because it "relaxes" the lips instead of opening the mouth. I think it doesn't really replace "Mouth Parted", but instead it adds an option Dawn lacks.

ElisaLippart.jpg
 

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I too love that "Elisa Lips Parted" morph, its my fave because it looks natural. (I find most 3D expressions creepy, no matter what the model)
 

eclark1894

Visionary
Hey, Chris, while you're busy making improvements to the nails, and only if it wouldn't be too much of an imposition, could you also consider letting her nails morph into claws or talons? Maybe even as an add-on?
 

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Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
I too love that "Elisa Lips Parted" morph, its my fave because it looks natural. (I find most 3D expressions creepy, no matter what the model)

I think most figure's facial expressions look best when used with moderation. In some cases, depending on the figure, we can't dial even 50% before it gets creepy. My first experience with that was when A3 was released. I think they used Vicky3 expressions on an Anime head, and it inevitably looked creepy to me. Nonetheless, so many out there won't touch expression dials, pose hands, or even the eyes. I made an entire tutorial trying to tell people those things are important, because I believe art is supposed to express something. Expressions are important to me, but I was surprised by how many people just don't care. To each their own.

Hey, Chris, while you're busy making improvements to the nails, and only if it wouldn't be too much of an imposition, could you also consider letting her nails morph into claws or talons? Maybe even as an add-on?

Oh, I could use that with my catgirls! Maybe not talons, but definitely claws! It's good to have options. ^___^
 

CG Cubed

Technical Director
Staff member
HW3D Exclusive Artist
Please remember we have partial expressions and full ones. The first one shown was a full expression Anger. The other was a partial expression, Mouth Smile. Happy would be the Full expression which would include the eyes and cheeks. ;)

I like the idea of softening the creases but keeping the original for the creepy factor.

Oooooo talons, add ons would be perfect for this so we can have separate relaxed UVs.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
Oooooo talons, add ons would be perfect for this so we can have separate relaxed UVs.

I think Poser doesn't support multiple UVs, so that would be DS-only. However, I remember V4 had a "creature" set that included conforming talons and claws. Since Dawn 2.0 has separate nail geometry, replacing them in Poser will not open holes on the fingers, making add-ons like this easier to make. :)

WIP continues

Love the new thigh bends, Paul! You are doing an awesome job! ^____^

As a test, I have loaded G2F again, and this time applied the body shape with the thickest legs I could find. Thigh gap is still preserved when the thigh is bent side-side inwards. It doesn't seem to matter how thick the thighs are. This is something I just can't have with Dawn, and I have hopes this could change with 2.0.

ThighGap.jpg
 
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Hornet3d

Wise
I like to do the odd portrait render so expressions are important to me so I am really interested to see what dawn 2 can deliver.

Irrespective of the figure I am using, I never do a single shot expression, by that I mean I have the default expression in frame one the the expression applied in frame 30 and then step thorough the frames until I have the expression I want. One of the most difficult problems with expressions is that a weird looking expression in the preview is often quite acceptable when rendered.
 

Chris

HW3D President
Staff member
Co-Founder
Looking over your video again Paul. That is such a beautiful bending pelvis and thigh area.

Well done friend and Master Blaster!
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
As long as it looks good at about 0.2 to 0.5, I'm good! I'm not sure I've ever used an expression at full strength, especially, the smiles ... which are always too much at full strength for me. But that's ok. I'd rather they be too much at full strength than not enough at partial strength.

I also tend to combine several expression morphs from Head, Mouth, Eyes, etc., to get what I want.
 

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I tend to not use smiles at full strength either, as I usually like a soft smile, rather than a wide open mouth smile.
 

Ken1171

Esteemed
Contributing Artist
That's how I handle expressions here - subtle. I agree with Satira - it's good to have expressions that go strong at max value because you never know what range of expression a scene will require. We can use anything in between. I care for the smile because it's what I use the most.
 
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