Dawn 2.0 Underway

[Chris]

So how's the rigging coming? Is she getting all bendy with it??

Is that anything like getting jiggy with it? If so, then ya, Paul is moving things along with the bendy stuff.

 

[RAMWolff]

Yea, Jiggy and Bendy! LOL

 

[Mythocentric]

Bend it. Bend it. Just a little bit,
Move that shoulder. Yeah, I'm liking it.
Watch those toes, oh cool, they're wiggily
Paul don't mess she's getting jiggly and oohhhh..

With apologies to Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Titch

 

[CG Cubed]

lol, Nice. We will try to be more consistent with the naming of morphs.

Grouping is being finalized. We would like to have a few more voices for having the meta carpal and meta tarsal groupings or not.

While we have had mention of complex grouping for clothing, clothing can be made with simple grouping and bones acting as ghost bones. We do it now with DawnSE shoes...individual toe groups are not put in our high heeled pumps, as an example. So this should not be a big hurdle. Also morphs were mentioned for Poser, especially concerning the head. We know we can use the original obj in a modeling program without it dividing the mesh, but can the morph tool in Poser do this? (BTW the head will be one group, with the lower jaw group containing only the lower teeth and gums.) This is more about the hand/feet grouping.

So the question is do you prefer to be able to select all the indiviual capal/tarsal groups from the viewport, or do you prefer to have the dials available for the carpals/tarsals when you select the hand/feet groups?

 

[Ken1171]

We know we can use the original obj in a modeling program without it dividing the mesh, but can the morph tool in Poser do this?

When it comes to the Morphing Tool, it can only operate on models that are already loaded into Poser, meaning the groups have already been split. However, groups are only split if loaded as a figure. If the original OBJ mesh is loaded, it will NOT be split. One easy way to avoid Poser group splitting is to save the morphed figured to the library, and then loading it back in DAZ Studio. The morph dial will still be operational, and once dialed, it can be exported to a valid morph target that will work in both Poser and DS. This is how I create my DS versions of Poser morphs. But if the morph is only for Poser, it can be exported to a morph injection straight from Poser, and does not involve exporting geometry at all. So don't worry - there is a way around the group splitting.

So the question is do you prefer to be able to select all the indiviual capal/tarsal groups from the viewport, or do you prefer to have the dials available for the carpals/tarsals when you select the hand/feet groups?

For the hands and feet groups, I prefer to have a dedicated group for the metatarsal, because we will be posing the feet directly. However, I think the extra metacarpal on the base of the thumbs could be used by ERCs to better the thumb posing, instead of being used directly. So I think it could be a ghost bone. In general, people are used to dialing ERC master dials to pose the fingers, instead of posing individual fingers by bone. There is also the issue of creating gloves, which tends to be nightmarish as it is, so more groups wouldn't help. I have personally never used the existing metacarpal group on Dawn's hands for posing, but yet, I had to deal with them when creating outfits with gloves. The gloves get so fragmented (too many groups!!) that I had to make them poly-heavy to give the weight maps more buffer geometry to work with, not to mention the extra work with the rigging. In my humble opinion, not worth the extra group when it could be a ghost bone.

What about EZPose controls for the tongue? If it's going to be a single group, EZPose dials would supply all possible global and local posing people could think of.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

I prefer dials. You really don't want to see what happens when I have to select and drag something. I've ended up with arms twisted into pretzels just by selecting the arm! It's why I select EVERYTHING from the Hierarchy Window.

So the question is do you prefer to be able to select all the indiviual capal/tarsal groups from the viewport, or do you prefer to have the dials available for the carpals/tarsals when you select the hand/feet groups?

 

[Miss B]

I agree with Satira. I only select items from the Hierarchy Editor. In fact, I rarely use the dials, as I usually click on the setting number, and change it to what I want.

 

[RAMWolff]

One of my niggles with posing hands, so you'll have to edjumacate me on this, is when one bends their thumbs inward,,,, in ALL the models, Genesis included, being able to do that and have it look natural always bothered me. Like take your thumb and bend it all the way in, against the palm of your hand.... see how that looks? I can't ever get a thumb in any digital figure to pose like that. So if it's some carpal tunnel thingamabobber or what have you... can you please make that happen? GrassyAss!

 

[Miss B]

I don't know if I'd ever use that extreme a bend of the thumbs, but even just having the thumbs line up nicely with the side of the hand and Index finger, like when you pull your fingers tightly together, would be very nice indeed.

The thumb is the one finger I can't always figure out what setting I should be tweaking, especially with V4. With Dawn it's Bend and Side-Side. With V4, it's Up-Down and Bend, and to me those mean the same thing. I'm usually picking the wrong one, and moving it in the wrong direction (+ or -). I never have problems with the rest of the fingers, only the thumbs.

 

[Ken1171]

One of my niggles with posing hands, so you'll have to edjumacate me on this, is when one bends their thumbs inward,,,, in ALL the models, Genesis included, being able to do that and have it look natural always bothered me. Like take your thumb and bend it all the way in, against the palm of your hand.... see how that looks? I can't ever get a thumb in any digital figure to pose like that. So if it's some carpal tunnel thingamabobber or what have you... can you please make that happen? GrassyAss!

This is exactly why I have suggested the extra metacarpal at the base of the thumb finger.

 

[HandspanStudios]

I would move the upper eyelash to be flush with the edge of the upper eyelid, there's generally not a visible line on the upper eyelid between the lid and the lash, only the under edge shows as that line sometimes.

 

[Seliah (Childe of Fyre)]

So the question is do you prefer to be able to select all the indiviual capal/tarsal groups from the viewport, or do you prefer to have the dials available for the carpals/tarsals when you select the hand/feet groups?

Dials! Absolutely, dials. I can NOT work without the dials. I just cannot work by click-and-dragging. All I ever make that way is horrible little wannabe-pretzel monsters. LOL

Dials, please!

 

[Willowisp]

Dials! Can I say it again, DIALS!!

 

[RAMWolff]

I like the option for both drag and pose as well as dials in DS.

 

[eclark1894]

Dials! Absolutely, dials. I can NOT work without the dials. I just cannot work by click-and-dragging. All I ever make that way is horrible little wannabe-pretzel monsters. LOL

Dials, please!

Aww! I LIKE pretzels!

 

[Ken1171]

Just for the record, there would be dials anyway - I suppose Paul was asking if people would prefer groups in addition, not instead. I have listed my series of technical reasons why [I believe] we should have groups in some places, but not in others. Maybe we could have small [perhaps areola-sized?] groups for the pectoral bones, but I believe it's best if the hand palms and the head would stay in 1 piece.

Paul said there will be a facial rig, but I am curious about a few things. Will these bones also control translation and scale like Chuck Taylor (Nerd3D) did with LF? I am not sure if DS supports smooth translations, or if it's just a Poser 11 thing.

As an example, smooth translations can be used to adjust the position of parts of the nose, and smooth scaling to control their size. Those things are traditionally handled with morphs, but bones can be much more versatile and intuitive for that. Smooth scaling can be used to control breast size, while smooth translation can adjust their position. The original Dawn has a myriad of fixed morphs to do those things, but bones could be more versatile. Now the question is if it's possible to do these things in DS?

 

[CG Cubed]

Thanks For the feed back folks, it really helps. So I have the groups done me thinks...We will have 3 groups per finger as usual and one hand group. When the hand is selected, we will have categories of dials which will include erc controls for the hands and fingers, and individual metacarpal bend, side, twist dials.

 

[CG Cubed]

We will do the same, with the foot. Single foot group with 2 groups for the big toe and 3 for the other toes.

 

[Miss B]

Looking very good Paul.

 

[CG Cubed]

Here is her Body grouping. I have to say Chris did an outstanding job on the mesh update! Edge loops are awesome, and you can see very clean group separations.

We will have 1 chest group with controls for the breast rig. We will still have the hip and pelvis groups, and 2 abdomen groups. 1 Neck group. Clean arm and leg grouping as well.