Dawn 2.0 Underway

[Chris]

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm loving seeing the amount of detail being put into Dawn 2,0. But, I can't for the life of me see the need to go into such detail on her teeth How many renders can you imagine where you'd be getting close enough to see the detail in her back teeth ? It strikes me as asking for her to have nose hair included so you can look into her nostrils ? Also..if you're going into such detail for her teeth..what about something no-one is game to mention ? That which makes her a female ? I'm pretty sure that is pretty much a taboo subject ?

I've modeled in more geometry for Dawn 2.0, and I believe I have enough now for a basic vulva morph. At least I'll create what I can from the mesh we have now.

 

[eclark1894]

Speaking of making her female, is there some way of giving her wider hips and a more distinct thigh gap? And yes, I apologize if my terminology is offensive to you.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

You mean besides the existing morphs that widen her hips?

PearTorso 1, HipsFull 1, HipsRounded 1, WaistWidth 1, ThighCurveOutside 1, ThighFull 1, ThightWidth 1

I thought there was also a morph to widen the gap between her thighs, but if so, I didn't see it.

Same as above but with ThighCurveInside 1

 

[Chris]

Speaking of making her female, is there some way of giving her wider hips and a more distinct thigh gap? And yes, I apologize if my terminology is offensive to you.

Not offended. We can address these desires with morphs. Thanks.

 

[Ken1171]

The thigh gap is something I have requested for the original Dawn during the making of her SR-1 and SR-2, but it didn't come through. This is something that comes handy when creating characters with thick thighs (common feature in Brazil), where the thigh gap tends to be lost, making the character unrealistic. The thigh gap is a key female feature that was overlooked in Dawn. I would like Dawn 2.0 to have that covered.

 

[Hornet3d]

Don't get me wrong on this, I am sure Dawn 2 will great and I am looking forward to her release but part of me wonders, if there was so much wrong Dawn and Dawn SE why do we love her so much? I guess it depends on whether you are looking at it from a glass half full or half empty view point.

 

[eclark1894]

Don't get me wrong on this, I am sure Dawn 2 will great and I am looking forward to her release but part of me wonders, if there was so much wrong Dawn and Dawn SE why do we love her so much? I guess it depends on whether you are looking at it from a glass half full or half empty view point.

Who said there was anything wrong with her? Still, look at an average human... they go through life trying to make improvements and changes in the way they look. And then, don't forget, we do have morphs to change the way a figure looks.

 

[tparo]

Personally I'm beginning to wonder if she will be great only from some content creators point of views, unfortunately I'm seeing little that will entice me as a user to choose her over other well supported figures.

 

[Hornet3d]

Who said there was anything wrong with her? Still, look at an average human... they go through life trying to make improvements and changes in the way they look. And then, don't forget, we do have morphs to change the way a figure looks.

Personally I'm beginning to wonder if she will be great only from some content creators point of views, unfortunately I'm seeing little that will entice me as a user to choose her over other well supported figures.

My post was sort of tongue in cheek in that there are so many changes suggested for improvements where I was not aware there were issues, which I think touches on your point Tparo. I was sort of aware of the situation with the pelvis but, as suggested by eclark1894, I can resolve this with morphs, in this case the Perfect pelvis morph. I also use the narrow shoulders morph extensively and my main character must have hundreds of morphs in use, both from Hivewire and third parties.

I will certainly buy and use Dawn 2 and see just how much better she is over Dawn SE. Whether I will use Dawn 2 to replace my current characters long term is a decision I can only make when I have that information available.

 

[Chris]

Personally I'm beginning to wonder if she will be great only from some content creators point of views, unfortunately I'm seeing little that will entice me as a user to choose her over other well supported figures.

What is it that you would like to see? Or is it more of a support issue and popular vote type of thing?

We're open here, and this is a great place to share your thoughts. We know full well we're up against some very strong alternative figure content, but we feel compelled to keep striving to compete. We do after all provide a very solid option, especially for both Studio and Poser users.

Another thing, Dawn 2.0 will also be made available for the Rendo store and artists to create for which will potentially bolster additional creator support. As soon as we have a solid workable model Dawn 2.0 will be made available for all who wish to create for her.

Variety is a great thing, especially if that variety is viable. We're listening and looking to strengthen our presence with our human figures. We offer up the best animal content in this market, and aim to do the same with our figures. We must do what we can to improve our chances, change the game to garner any additional support of Dawn.

So... what is it that might change things up for you, if anything?

 

[NapalmArsenal]

Chris, are you thinking of doing an HD add on for her or including one? Sometimes, it's not so much the morphs, but the quality and detail. There are several artist that I appreciate them taking time to do the extra details they put into their models as far as HD goes. I know that is sort of an MDL Iray thing, but ......... Looking at La Femme and don't get me wrong she is a great Poser model, I just feel there are some things like fine details that are missing.

I'm really loving the look on 3Dreams La Femme - Another Look Mats at Renderosity. Something of that quality really grabs my attention. I love the look of her so far! Please keep up the excellent work! =) Anxiously waiting!

 

[Hornet3d]

What is it that you would like to see? Or is it more of a support issue and popular vote type of thing?

We're open here, and this is a great place to share your thoughts. We know full well we're up against some very strong alternative figure content, but we feel compelled to keep striving to compete. We do after all provide a very solid option, especially for both Studio and Poser users.

Another thing, Dawn 2.0 will also be made available for the Rendo store and artists to create for which will potentially bolster additional creator support. As soon as we have a solid workable model Dawn 2.0 will be made available for all who wish to create for her.

Variety is a great thing, especially if that variety is viable. We're listening and looking to strengthen our presence with our human figures. We offer up the best animal content in this market, and aim to do the same with our figures. We must do what we can to improve our chances, change the game to garner any additional support of Dawn.

So... what is it that might change things up for you, if anything?

A very commendable and understandable objective and I a really interested to see how Dawn 2 comes out although I am already sure she will be great. I don't think the variety aspect can be overdone as we all approach the subject from a either slightly, or very, different prospective. Now I am more awake and having given it a little more thought I think the point I was trying to make is that Dawn SE is already special for me. That does not mean it is true of everyone, I am not really into doing nudes and artistic renders neither am I after photo realistic and almost all my stuff is either fantasy or sci-fi based with the odd attempt at comedy. This could explain why I have never been aware of many of the limitations discussed here or I am just working at a much lower level that it just does not impact me.

As I have stated I will buy and use the new Dawn 2 when available, but then I am in the lucky position where I am at a place in life where I can afford to spend money on my hobby. For those not so lucky Dawn SE will still be a great figure to work with and have fun.

I love the openness here and the mature discussion and the fact that something will do does not make it wrong to try to improve, I guess I just had a moment's thought to consider what I have what I have now and not look for want I would like, not an unusual thought process for me but, as I said, I do regard myself as being very lucky.

 

[Ken1171]

Personally I'm beginning to wonder if she will be great only from some content creators point of views, unfortunately I'm seeing little that will entice me as a user to choose her over other well supported figures.

That's a good point there - we all want our figure to be well supported. For that to happen, the figure needs to be attractive to content creators, right? If CAs won't adopt the figure, it won't get any contents. Dawn 2.0 will have everything the current version has, and improve in many areas, based on experience from those who have used her extensively as users, and also as content creators.

This is not a chicken & egg paradox - it is very clear that CAs need to love the figure for it to be well supported, and therefore become popular and mainstream. If this is a requirement to you, then Dawn 2.0 is going the right direction here. So much that 3D Universe made suggestions that didn't even cross my mind, because his specialty is different from mine.

 

[Hornet3d]

That's a good point there - we all want our figure to be well supported. For that to happen, the figure needs to be attractive to content creators, right? If CAs won't adopt the figure, it won't get any contents. Dawn 2.0 will have everything the current version has, and improve in many areas, based on experience from those who have used her extensively as users, and also as content creators.

This is not a chicken & egg paradox - it is very clear that CAs need to love the figure for it to be well supported, and therefore become popular and mainstream. If this is a requirement to you, then Dawn 2.0 is going the right direction here. So much that 3D Universe made suggestions that didn't even cross my mind, because his specialty is different from mine.

Yep, I totally see that and even though I am a user rather than a content maker I have understood most of the points raised here, the solutions might have been over my head a times though. I am sure all the suggestions will make for a better figure in the long run but some of us will only really see the end result not the detail, sort of in the same way you can enjoy driving without knowing how the engine actually works.

 

[CG Cubed]

Thanks to everyone for their continued feedback and input.

We will definitely improve the thigh and crotch rotations. As for the extra bones for hands and hip pelvis grouping, Dawn SE has them and Dawn 2 will see improvements to them. Also, the thigh gap can be maintained with these improvements and adjusting the rigging to the shape for the hip morphs.

The original concept for Dawn was to have a standardized figure with the same features in both programs. We will continue this effort with Dawn 2.0. It is what makes this figure unique. No other main stream figure is natively supported in Poser and DS while maintaining the same functionality.

As with anything, we want to provide options for our community. More options push innovations and improvements, and competition keeps prices lower.

Hopefully we can deliver something special that the community will love and support.

 

[Chris]

Just an update-

Final Dawn 2.0 mesh is now in the hands of the master rigger Paul. He's been experimenting with rigging up to this point. But now since I just finished reworking the teeth, tongue and gums I emailed Dawn over to him. He's been waiting for this final mesh before he starts his grouping of our new girl.

Paul is going to show Lisa and me his rigging work on Dawn this evening in Skype. I'm looking forward to seeing how things are progressing.

Onto UV work for me next.

Here are a couple screen grabs of the teeth and gums mesh reworked to quads.

 

[Miss B]

Looking good Chris!

 

[Ken1171]

I like the proportions on these teeth. They look quite realistic. I hope those will have a "toon" morph to simplify them as well. ^___^

Eager to see the new grouping and the first rigging results.

 

[tparo]

That's a good point there - we all want our figure to be well supported. For that to happen, the figure needs to be attractive to content creators, right? If CAs won't adopt the figure, it won't get any contents. Dawn 2.0 will have everything the current version has, and improve in many areas, based on experience from those who have used her extensively as users, and also as content creators.

This is not a chicken & egg paradox - it is very clear that CAs need to love the figure for it to be well supported, and therefore become popular and mainstream. If this is a requirement to you, then Dawn 2.0 is going the right direction here. So much that 3D Universe made suggestions that didn't even cross my mind, because his specialty is different from mine.

It also needs to be attractive to users.
DS is my main program and to make Dawn attractive to me she is going to need to compete with the latest Genesis figure. I have ways of fitteing clothing from earlier figures within the program, I have ways of moving morphs acros from one generation to another, G8 has a wonderful face rig which i use a lot; I got the impression that Dawn 2 probably won't have this feature, I would like to see Dawn 2 take advantage of the features availble in my preferred program, I do not want to see her held back so that she works the same in different platforms.

 

[CG Cubed]

Speaking of grouping...

Since grouping doesn't effect the rigging, but does impact morph creation in some programs, I would like to get input for what I have planned.

For me as a user, I prefer to be able to select things quickly from within the view port, so I prefer a group for each of the bones. This can get problematic for the head for the morphing, as well as hands and feet if all the carpals are included. I could group them with tiny 4 poly groups on the knuckles but this may be difficult to select in the scene anyway.

So what I have planned is to group the whole head as one. The eyes would be separate groups. The lower jaw would be a ghost bone with its dials in the head group. The tongue will be one group and when selected, will have the controls dials for all the ghost bones. The hands and feet will have the one group each and when selected, will have the dials for the carpals. Fingers and toes would be grouped individually. I will create a hip group, pelvis, and 2 abdomen groups. 1 Chest group with dials for the ghost bones for the breasts. 1 neck group will finish out the top portion of the body. Arms and legs will have groups like Dawn SE.

Assuming I don't run into issues with the weight maps going from child to parent to grand parent, I believe this will give us a solid figure that will be easy to select and provide all the controls for any hidden bones.

Feedback, concerns, preferences?

Thanks