Dawn 2.0 Underway

[MCarr]

She is looking good so far! I tried getting into Dawn when she was first released and I could never really get anything that I found attractive for my projects going. This version is looking like that may NOT be an issue this time.

 

[Hornet3d]

She is looking good so far! I tried getting into Dawn when she was first released and I could never really get anything that I found attractive for my projects going. This version is looking like that may NOT be an issue this time.

I had a similar experience with Dawn on launch but Dawn SE was a different prospect altogether which bodes very well for Dawn 2 which is looking great.

 

[Art_of_Mind]

I googled (perfect legs) hit images and this is one of the first images that came up. I drew red lines on the area I'm talking about.

 

[Chris]

Working on forearms and beginning topo rework of hands. Still need to scale them down and add in more femininity.

 

[eclark1894]

Two things I'd like to see...
1. Nails on the fingers and toes. (Preferably morphs)
2. Thinner and longer fingers.

 

[tparo]

Two things I'd like to see...
1. Nails on the fingers and toes. (Preferably morphs)
2. Thinner and longer fingers.

Yea I like seeing the nails on the fingers and toes rather than anywhere else.

 

[Chris]

Two things I'd like to see...
1. Nails on the fingers and toes. (Preferably morphs)
2. Thinner and longer fingers.

I will make the hands and feet smaller. I will make the arm shorter. I will thin down and taper each finger and thumb. The fingernails and toenails will be separate geometry, as recommended by Fabi and others.

 

[Ken1171]

I will make the hands and feet smaller. I will make the arm shorter. I will thin down and taper each finger and thumb. The fingernails and toenails will be separate geometry, as recommended by Fabi and others.

Sounds great, Chris! I was wondering the reasons for Fabi & others to suggest split geometry for the fingernails and toenails. Why is that an advantage? And what about separate, conforming lashes? That one I do know why it would be am advantage. I wrote about it earlier in this thread.

 

[RAMWolff]

The separate eyelash geometry would be VERY helpful in making maps easier. I too wrote about this! Please Chris!

 

[Satira Capriccio]

I'm wondering too why it's better to have the finger and toe nails separate from the fingers and toes? Does this make it easier to morph the fingernails and toenails into talons? Or is there something else I'm missing?

If separate eyelashes result in M4 type eyelashes (which frequently separated from the eyelids), I'm not going to be a fan of separate eyelashes. I do see how separate eyelashes would result in fewer steps when morphing the head in ZBrush as the eyelashes wouldn't then need to be hidden. But ... depending on what you did to the face/eyes, wouldn't you also need to create morphs for the eyelashes so they follow the head/face/eyelid morphs.

Eyelashes are already a separate map from the face, so I don't see how that will help with texturing?

 

[Miss B]

I would assume Fabi mentioned the fingernails because I use her Long Square Nails morph from her Oriana character no matter what Dawn character I'm actually working with. I would think having the fingernails as separate mesh makes it that much easier for folks to make fingernail morph sets, rather than having to pull in Dawn's whole hand to work with in ZBrush or other modeling apps.

Not sure about the toenails, though Fabi has a fix for that too, though I "think" it's just around the cuticles, and not for added length, though I can imagine anyone wanting to do fantasy characters might just want that as an option.

I have to agree with Satira about the eyelashes, as I can't see how having those as separate meshes would really work better.

 

[tparo]

I would assume Fabi mentioned the fingernails because I use her Long Square Nails morph from her Oriana character no matter what Dawn character I'm actually working with. I would think having the fingernails as separate mesh makes it that much easier for folks to make fingernail morph sets, rather than having to pull in Dawn's whole hand to work with in ZBrush or other modeling apps.

Not sure about the toenails, though Fabi has a fix for that too, though I "think" it's just around the cuticles, and not for added length, though I can imagine anyone wanting to do fantasy characters might just want that as an option.

I have to agree with Satira about the eyelashes, as I can't see how having those as separate meshes would really work better.

Personally I would love to see the lashes separate, the G8 figures have this and its such an advantage, but its possible that it may be difficult to get it to work the same way in Poser as it does in DS.

 

[RAMWolff]

Not sure about Poser but with all the new points added to the face around the brows, lips and eyes the eyelashes, for Genesis 8, follow very extreme shaping very well. So for my upcoming Gino for G8M his eyeshape is changed just enough that if I were dealing with Genesis 3 or Dusk, I'd have to create fixes for the lashes but with the separate geometry it loads to Gino's eye shape with no issues. The only thing I need fix are the blink morphs which is a given as the default blink is designed to follow the exact shape of the default eye. Plus for those of us that create free and for sale content being able to import Dawn and eventually Dusk 2.0 into ZBrush or Blender or what ever software your using to create your new character you can leave the lash geometry out of the equation and do your thing without having to hide those extra 4 layers of geometry to see what the heck your doing around the eyes. Lashes that came in as part of the main model were always very off putting to my creative process.

 

[Male-M3dia]

Not sure about Poser but with all the new points added to the face around the brows, lips and eyes the eyelashes, for Genesis 8, follow very extreme shaping very well. So for my upcoming Gino for G8M his eyeshape is changed just enough that if I were dealing with Genesis 3 or Dusk, I'd have to create fixes for the lashes but with the separate geometry it loads to Gino's eye shape with no issues. The only thing I need fix are the blink morphs which is a given as the default blink is designed to follow the exact shape of the default eye. Plus for those of us that create free and for sale content being able to import Dawn and eventually Dusk 2.0 into ZBrush or Blender or what ever software your using to create your new character you can leave the lash geometry out of the equation and do your thing without having to hide those extra 4 layers of geometry to see what the heck your doing around the eyes. Lashes that came in as part of the main model were always very off putting to my creative process.

Depending on the custom morph, you'd still need to fix lashes, including making sure they don't overlap when eyes are closed. Since Poser needs to be supported, they probably should stay part of the mesh as automorph generation doesn't exist to help conform the lashes to the figure. Also on that note, when making characters vendors should be creating eyeclose fixes if their characters are custom.

 

[RAMWolff]

I figure with the onset of Le Belle and all her new bits for natural face movement perhaps Paul could do that for Dusk and Dawn 2.0 so that things like beards and fibermesh eyebrows just follow along.

As for Gino, I did have to make a small JCM for the eye close morph dials but it wasn't very much really. The underarm hair fibermesh I made for him gave me more trouble than the eyes or eyelashes. The eyelashes themselves follow along with the reshaped eyes just fine. Fixing the eye shape for eye close L & R fixed the issues I was having with the eyelashes overlapping.

 

[Male-M3dia]

I figure with the onset of Le Belle and all her new bits for natural face movement perhaps Paul could do that for Dusk and Dawn 2.0 so that things like beards and fibermesh eyebrows just follow along.

Those are things that require a morph for the beards and eyebrows when you change the shape of the face. There's nothing stopping anyone from making them now, the end user would need something that would automatically generate the morphs for them like Poser Pro. Otherwise someone would need to make morphs for every face morph dial or the most common ones, since the product would only be rigged to the base head morph. It's not a rigging issue.

 

[RAMWolff]

Sorry, I'm not a technical person by nature, I'm an artist. I just know that when I apply my scruff set to Gino's face it works. That's good to me.

 

[Chris]

Sounds great, Chris! I was wondering the reasons for Fabi & others to suggest split geometry for the fingernails and toenails. Why is that an advantage? And what about separate, conforming lashes? That one I do know why it would be am advantage. I wrote about it earlier in this thread.

Fabi likes to be able to show translucency thru the nail to the nail bed. Also likes the nails to have UVs for normal length and a separate UV set for elongated or morphed nails to minimize stretching of maps.

We are trashing out super long lashes that don't really get used and are just in the way. We will keep the 2 upper and 2 lower lash sets. I will defer thoughts on conforming lashes to Paul's insights and thoughts. But I like your thinking.

 

[Chris]

Personally I would love to see the lashes separate, the G8 figures have this and its such an advantage, but its possible that it may be difficult to get it to work the same way in Poser as it does in DS.

This might be true, but I don't know. I'm certain that Paul would.

 

[Chris]

I'm wondering too why it's better to have the finger and toe nails separate from the fingers and toes? Does this make it easier to morph the fingernails and toenails into talons? Or is there something else I'm missing?

If separate eyelashes result in M4 type eyelashes (which frequently separated from the eyelids), I'm not going to be a fan of separate eyelashes. I do see how separate eyelashes would result in fewer steps when morphing the head in ZBrush as the eyelashes wouldn't then need to be hidden. But ... depending on what you did to the face/eyes, wouldn't you also need to create morphs for the eyelashes so they follow the head/face/eyelid morphs.

Eyelashes are already a separate map from the face, so I don't see how that will help with texturing?

Solid points with your thoughts on lashes. I know when I make characters and morphs I always have to morph the lashes along with them.