Official Announcement: DAZ terminates agreement to publish HiveWire 3D animals!

[Willowisp]

@Razor42

Welcome to the Hive, it is always good to get input from many sides! I hope you will stay

First of all, I want to comment on a bit from your first post, where you claim that this is really just about software wars. You couldn't be farther from the truth. HiveWire has always been about content for both Poser and Daz Studio, and any official product will always be for both. Individual CA's are free to make their products for one or the other or both. I can honestly say that I haven't encountered much software bashing in the forums, quite the opposite! People here seem to want to share and learn, yes we may compare sometimes, but not in a 'my daddy's stronger than yours' capacity. Vendors who create for one software might reach out to vendors from the other software to collaborate. People from both 'camps' have been slowly learning about the other software. So no, this has absolutely nothing to do about software, and if you think so, you haven't followed this forum much.

Now to the root of this thread. You are of course entitled to your opinion on this matter, and you are of course allowed to express your opinion on this! Just like the rest of us are! No one should be told to keep quiet because their opinion don't match yours. But there is not just a difference of opinion here, there is also the difference in interpretation. Keep in mind, we are all artist here, and artists are known for being emotional, so no wonder tempers will rise occasionally. That doesn't mean everything should be taken literally. Where you apparently see loads of Daz hate, I see more disappointment, and honestly, not even you can fault us for that!

Peace.

 

[Willowisp]

Ah thanks for clearing up regarding the software wars. You are right, there will always be some individuals who have their agenda no matter where they go, but I have noticed that most of them repress that agenda while at HW. And if they step out of line, they will usually be reminded by the staff. And yes, this thread will have it's share of anti-Daz sentiment, that is only natural in this case, but I don't see any anti- Daz Studio anywhere. There is a big difference, as I'm sure you know.

Yes, there have been some speculation from some members in this thread, speculation that probably has no root in reality. But, that is just human nature Razor. People here are hurt and disappointed, and we tend to say things we wouldn't normally say. We tend to look for reasons where we can't see any. If you see that as bait, then so be it, I see it as people being frustrated and venting their emotions. Anyone is of course free to disagree and feel otherwise. And if you feel that any one member here is carrying out a smear campaign, against any entity, report their post and let the staff deal with it. Keep in mind that they are also entitled to their opinion, and if they hate Daz, they have the right to say so, just like you have the right to say that you think their opinion is wrong.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

Willowisp has really nailed it in both her (or his) posts.

At HiveWire, we are allowed to express our frustrations ... even when they turn negative. There will sometimes be unfounded speculation. Unlike some of our visitors here, most of us are human. Our many bot visitors aren't exactly human :wink:

Since we do have many Poser users (me included), there IS going to be a lot of frustration ... and even anger ... expressed toward DAZ. Anyone with any familiarity with the history of DAZ toward Poser users surely can understand that? We also have a lot of DS users, quite a few who I think the world of.

Yes. There will also be some comments pointed at DAZ Studio ... considering it frustrates some of us immensely. And we are even allowed to say that without being censored or attacked.

As a Community Volunteer, part of my responsibilities is to be a forum moderator. Absolutely when I encounter a post that gets close to stepping across the line, I'll watch the situation as closely as possible. But, I sleep and I work full time, so there are a lot of hours when I'm not here. I stayed up several hours last night past the time I should have been asleep because had this been another site, we'd have a full fledged flame war by now.

But ... we have amazing people here, and I'm so proud to be part of this community.

I would also point out ... again ... that if anyone has issues with a post, report it.

 

[Satira Capriccio]

No. As a Poser only user, what you just posted doesn't offend me. Nor do I see your statement as an attack on Poser ... or even on Smith Micro, the Poser platform, their current management team, marketing team, software engineers ... etc.

Should either Smith Micro or DAZ 3D go broke this year, it would have repercussions for all of us. I'd hate to see either happen. Just as I'd hate to see either company buy out the other, or we lose any more brokerages as we lost RDNA.

"And yes, this thread will have it's share of anti-Daz sentiment, that is only natural in this case, but I don't see any anti- Daz Studio anywhere. There is a big difference, as I'm sure you know."

Sorry but that difference to myself is rather blurred, it's a bit like if I said 'I have no issue with Poser, I have no use for it myself. But I sure hope Smith Micro goes broke this year'. Would that offend Poser users do you think? Is that an attack on Poser or just my opinion of Smith Micro as a company separate from software bias? Attacking Daz 3D is by extension attacking the Daz Studio platform. Or are you inferring that people are actually saying they hate the current management team at Daz 3D, or is it the QA department or do they hate the Marketing team? The software engineers? The CEO, BDO or the CFO? Or the hordes of content developers, artwork contractors or plugin developers working as part of the Daz 3D team? The Genesis figure series or the integrated Iray PBR engine? All of these things including Daz Studio are aspects of Daz 3D.

I'm sorry but I do not see them as two totally different things, Daz 3D is currently Daz Studio in more ways than not.

 

[Willowisp]

"And yes, this thread will have it's share of anti-Daz sentiment, that is only natural in this case, but I don't see any anti- Daz Studio anywhere. There is a big difference, as I'm sure you know."

Sorry but that difference to myself is rather blurred, it's a bit like if I said 'I have no issue with Poser, I have no use for it myself. But I sure hope Smith Micro goes broke this year'. Would that offend Poser users do you think? Is that an attack on Poser or just my opinion of Smith Micro as a company separate from software bias? Attacking Daz 3D is by extension attacking the Daz Studio platform. Or are you inferring that people are actually saying they hate the current management team at Daz 3D, or is it the QA department or do they hate the Marketing team? The software engineers? The CEO, BDO or the CFO? Or the hordes of content developers, artwork contractors or plugin developers working as part of the Daz 3D team? The Genesis figure series or the integrated Iray PBR engine? All of these things including Daz Studio are aspects of Daz 3D.

I'm sorry but I do not see them as two totally different things, Daz 3D is currently Daz Studio in more ways than not.

I'm sorry, but they are two completely different things. As a very good example, I have plenty of friends who love Daz Studio, but hates Daz the company. As for your example about liking Poser, but not SM, no, it wouldn't bother me, and I guess most Poser users, as Poser weren't even made by SM. Poser has had many different owners over the years, and so most of us don't really have any particular feelings for the company. I would of course consider your wish to see SM bankrupt as rather nasty towards the people that work there tho

Also, I would like to point out, that I don't think ANYONE here wants to see Daz (the company) fold, but many of us would like to see changes there.

 

[Willowisp]

I'm not saying that people shouldn't have a right to express themselves freely. I am saying do not be surprised when there are continued sustained attacks on DAZ here that you will see more people stepping in to argue the point. Those arguments would seem to go against what was trying to be achieved here with an open, friendly and supporting community. I have no issue with people expressing their software preference or their dislike for a businesses practices. I'm sorry but I do think lines have been crossed in this thread that have warranted a response. I just hope this site can continue to be open and friendly and not just become another flame based argument forum. That is the point I was attempting to make.

And your point is well received, and appreciated even! Please keep posting your opinions, as we all need to see things from different sides!

We may not all agree, but we do appreciate your contribution

Edit: typo

 

[Terre]

A very good question. Unfortunately it's not one I can answer but there are people here who can do so.
What I can do is explain one reason why some folks are very angry with Daz as a company: When what is now Genesis 1 came out a number of people (both Poser and Studio users) said that they didn't like the androgyny and therefore weren't going to use it. Within a matter of weeks what happened was that every time someone new popped into the forum to make this comment they got flamed and when the mods stepped in it was the original poster who got punished not the attackers. Eventually it reached the point where people who hadn't been in the forums in a few years would pop in, make a comment about not wanting to use Gen1 because of the androgyny and promptly get clobbered by a mod accusing them of making an inflammatory post. That doesn't happen any more but it left a VERY bad taste in many people's mouths, both Poser and Daz Studio users.

 

[daywalker03]

A very good question. Unfortunately it's not one I can answer but there are people here who can do so.
What I can do is explain one reason why some folks are very angry with Daz as a company: When what is now Genesis 1 came out a number of people (both Poser and Studio users) said that they didn't like the androgyny and therefore weren't going to use it. Within a matter of weeks what happened was that every time someone new popped into the forum to make this comment they got flamed and when the mods stepped in it was the original poster who got punished not the attackers. Eventually it reached the point where people who hadn't been in the forums in a few years would pop in, make a comment about not wanting to use Gen1 because of the androgyny and promptly get clobbered by a mod accusing them of making an inflammatory post. That doesn't happen any more but it left a VERY bad taste in many people's mouths, both Poser and Daz Studio users.

A lot of DAZ3D PAs didn't make content for Genesis either, staying with V4. Vendors on Renderosity, on the other hand, made lots of Genesis content.

 

[Daio]

I am a PA at DAZ though I haven't been active there in quite awhile. Personally, as a Poser user I'd like to see them provide more items in Poser format. But that is just a personal preference. Professionally, the main thing I'd like to change is for them to respond to emails in a timely fashion.

 

[PoisenedLily]

Ok. I have a few things to say here. Take it or leave it.

#1 I mean NO disrespect to Hivewire or Chris. I very much enjoy Chris' work and have never had ANY ill will towards this site. I have no issues with a post on their own site explaining what happened with their Daz publishing relationship. Completely fair, and hey to each their own. I don't care if you hate Daz, love Daz, whatever. That is YOUR choice everyone and I completely respect that.

#2 Ya know what I do NOT respect. Captainclone. Whom I sincerely hope I do not know. I try not to associate with childish scaredy cats. Because if you were really a stand up person fed up with "Daz's crap" (summary of all your recent hot air about Daz not a direct quote from you) then you would use your REAL PA name. Not make up a new one to hide behind.

Ya know what else? Don't give a rats behind if an NDA isnt going to get you jail time, therefore its not illegal. No you aren't a criminal, just an immoral jack ass.

For everyone else bashing Daz, Daz PAs whatever the hell your deal is... stop. You look childish and ridiculous. Maybe you are jealous because you can't get anything into Daz? Idk but seriously grow up.

Again this is nothing against Chris, or Hivewire. I have actually heard very good things about this site. I have a very good friend (one of my best) who goes out of her way to support this site whenever she can because she believes in Chris and the site SO much. So I have no issue with this site. I have issue with Captainclone using it to get his/her rocks off while hiding like a big ole baby. Come out of the closet pal. If you wanna be a grown up act like one.

 

[AllenArt]

The mods did remove the stuff posted by captainclone as soon as they knew about it FWIW. Can't have ppl posting private emails of any sort, especially stuff under NDA's.

Laurie

 

[PoisenedLily]

The mods did remove the stuff posted by captainclone as soon as they knew about it FWIW. Can't have ppl posting private emails of any sort, especially stuff under NDA's.

Laurie

I completely agree there. Again I have NO issue with this site or Chris or anyone on this site (excluding Captainclone of course) But I have to ask (sorry lol) what is FWIW?

 

[Glitterati3D]

Boy, I see an awful lot of personal attacks going on.

At least they are coming out in the open instead of running around behind people's back and tattletelling like kindergardeners. "Teacher, teacher, look what this person said about us on that internet forum! And, look, BillyBob liked his post, too. Kick them out of school."

 

[AllenArt]

Yes, For What It's Worth . Sorry. I just assume everyone knows internet lingo. LOL

 

[PoisenedLily]

For What Its Worth, AFAIK.

LOL now that you mention it...it makes perfect sense haha

 

[PoisenedLily]

Yes, For What It's Worth . Sorry. I just assume everyone knows internet lingo. LOL

LOL well sometimes I do. But sometimes I forget haha. Its the blonde AND polish thing. Some days are an uphill battle lol

 

[RAMWolff]

I'm betting an ostrich and raising an emu that @Razor42 's post doesn't get removed from here.... I do hope he posts the same on Daz3D forum. I'll keep an eye out for it.

and I have no idea who @Razor42 is... not even from his avatar.. ?????
any clues?????

As stated in last nights post from me, DAZ doesn't like conversations like this claiming bashing or what ever. Discourse that doesn't meet their standards (which seems to waver ALLOT depending on what it's about) removes posts they don't like or even entire threads. So if anyone where to bring this conversation to the DAZ forums the entire thread would disappear rather than letting it run it's course.

 

[RAMWolff]

I always think of an avatar as the icon rather than the forum name. Although ... Merriam Webster defines avatar as "an electronic image that represents and is manipulated by a computer user in a virtual space (as in a computer game or an online shopping site) and that interacts with other objects in the space." Shades of tall blue people!

I've gone by any number of names over the years, although I'm consistent within an "industry." So ... for anything art related, it's Satira Capriccio. MMORPGs ... it's Taeyn Kaidyrsi. Being she's my main character on MMORPGs. Unless it's a game I am not sure I'll put in much time or effort, in which case, it could be one of my other character names.

Oh ... pretty pretty DesertSilver.

One of the reasons I usually go with a Wolf or my own mug. Some folks really trick me when they change their avatars. And what's more choose a female when they are male or vice versa. Cracks me up!

 

[Glitterati3D]

As stated in last nights post from me, DAZ doesn't like conversations like this claiming bashing or what ever. Discourse that doesn't meet their standards (which seems to waver ALLOT depending on what it's about) removes posts they don't like or even entire threads. So if anyone where to bring this conversation to the DAZ forums the entire thread would disappear rather than letting it run it's course.

And, when they can't debate the issues, they attack the person. It's called gaslighting and a favorite tactic of none other than Donald Trump.

 

[eclark1894]

I completely agree there. Again I have NO issue with this site or Chris or anyone on this site (excluding Captainclone of course since that person is a coward) But I have to ask (sorry lol) what is FWIW?

Seriously, folks can we stop with the name calling? You disagree, fine. Let it go, and just don't respond.