• Welcome to the Community Forums at HiveWire 3D! Please note that the user name you choose for our forum will be displayed to the public. Our store was closed as January 4, 2021. You can find HiveWire 3D and Lisa's Botanicals products, as well as many of our Contributing Artists, at Renderosity. This thread lists where many are now selling their products. Renderosity is generously putting products which were purchased at HiveWire 3D and are now sold at their store into customer accounts by gifting them. This is not an overnight process so please be patient, if you have already emailed them about this. If you have NOT emailed them, please see the 2nd post in this thread for instructions on what you need to do

Official Announcement: DAZ terminates agreement to publish HiveWire 3D animals!

Hornet3d

Hornet3d

Wise
Alisa said:
Ha! Chris posted a reply as I was writing this, but I 'll comment anyway:

Alessandro, thanks for chiming in here and making this clear - it's really appreciated! I know there's been quite a bit of speculation, but I don't believe any of the HW team thinks that you or any other of the talented DAZ PAs are responsible for this decision being made. I think it's human nature to talk about "oh, I think THIS is the best" and "no, THIS is the best". Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and what one person likes "best" is not necessarily what another likes "best".

There is room in all our Runtimes for many people's products, just as there is room for Poser AND for DAZ Studio in our arsenals! Variety is important to customers!

I have a number of your animals, and others in my wishlist over at DAZ. Thank you for sharing your many talents with the 3D World !

And thank you for LAMH, by the way, as well as for creating the free player so people can create and others can use cool hair/fur in DS!

I seem to recall folks mentioning there was talk of you doing a version for Poser, and I know that Poser users would love that! If DAZ didn't want to sell it, I know we would :). As we'd love any presets for our Animals, as Chris said.





Indeed! An awful lot of work is put in behind the scenes by all of us to get every new HW Product out the door - Chris, Lisa, Paul and myself, any CAs like the awesome Laurie (CWRW) who collaborate with us, the beta and QAV teams, and others. Part of that group worked on this effort to move the animals to DAZ.

As noted earlier, Bonnie, some of that will not be completely wasted, as the products will be updated her, though it is going to involve a bit more work on the part of a few of us to redo things and get the updates in our store.
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If my runtimes are anything to go by the question of whose product you have in your runtimes is becoming more a question of the broker they use than the PAs themselves. In an ideal world it should not be the case but when bad decisions like this are made many people get tarred with the same brush even those who may equally dislike the decision.

There are at least five vendors that I used to follow and would purchase pretty well everything they produced. These days I buy nothing, not because they quality has dropped or for any action they have made but because they use a brokerage that I will not buy from. If they moved here I would immediately fill in the blanks I have in their collections despite the fact I know it would cost me a few hundred dollars minimum. As is it is they have lost that few hundred dollars through no real fault on their part. I actually feel guilty about not buying but that feeling is dwarfed by my resolve not to buy from a company who's business practice and customer service is dire. I have not mentioned the site in question but if they are reading this they will know who they are so I will only add by all means block my account if it makes you feel any more sanctimonious, I am happy here.
 
CWRW

CWRW

Extraordinary
HW3D Exclusive Artist
Bonnie2001 said:
That's all well and good, but what about all the time and effort you must have put in getting your products ready for the DAZ store, for it then to be discarded? How many hours did you spend getting everything ready?
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Trust me I don't want to remember and you don't want to know:) LOL actually all WILL see the results of some of that effort when we put the updated stuff in our store here. It was not all time wasted.
 
Hornet3d

Hornet3d

Wise
Well it as to said the two announcements have certainly kept the forum buzzing, elsewhere it would mean we were in the middle of a flame war, how different it is here.

There have been so many new bees it is difficult to say welcome to everyone but I do hope you feel welcome and stick around. Your views may be very different than many here but the forum will be all the better for that and at least you will be able to air those views freely.

If you find you like it tell the world, the more people that see how vastly different individuals can work together and have fun the better it will be, not only for Hivewire but the 3D art community in general.
 
Hornet3d

Hornet3d

Wise
CWRW said:
Trust me I don't want to remember and you don't want to know:) LOL actually all WILL see the results of some of that effort when we put the updated stuff in our store here. It was not all time wasted.
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Glad your efforts were not a total loss, but I still feel for you.
 
CWRW

CWRW

Extraordinary
HW3D Exclusive Artist
Thanks Hornet! It really wasn't so much doing the updating; more it was doing the updating on a try to have it done as fast as possible schedule:) ( And yeah I get those- I've run a design/ad biz for over 30 years:) It's always been the intention to update all the products I've worked on that needed it, but at a pace we can sustain without killing ourselves:)
 
Satira Capriccio

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
There's also this little thing called word of mouth. While many customers may never visit the forums, many of those customers may have been brought to 3d because of a friend. That friend might visit the forums. Or it could be a friend of a friend of a friend. They could belong to Facebook, Google+, deviantart, or some other non forum art type site, and in their connections and explorations there, hear things. It's too much of a social media world now NOT to believe that just because a person never visits a store's forums doesn't mean they don't hear about things that could cost a store their business.

When people are upset at the actions of a store, they don't just post about it at a store's forum. They bring up their discontent everywhere. At work, at home, among friends, on their cell in elevators, every social media they use. Conversations are overheard ... and while most of the time those people won't have any clue what the discussion is about, it's always possible someone will. That person will then spread that little bit of gossip they overheard. Even if they have no clue, they still may spread that little bit of gossip, and someone they share it with just might be a customer.

That's my 2 cents worth anyway :p
 
Hornet3d

Hornet3d

Wise
Satira Capriccio said:
There's also this little thing called word of mouth. While many customers may never visit the forums, many of those customers may have been brought to 3d because of a friend. That friend might visit the forums. Or it could be a friend of a friend of a friend. They could belong to Facebook, Google+, deviantart, or some other non forum art type site, and in their connections and explorations there, hear things. It's too much of a social media world now NOT to believe that just because a person never visits a store's forums doesn't mean they don't hear about things that could cost a store their business.

When people are upset at the actions of a store, they don't just post about it at a store's forum. They bring up their discontent everywhere. At work, at home, among friends, on their cell in elevators, every social media they use. Conversations are overheard ... and while most of the time those people won't have any clue what the discussion is about, it's always possible someone will. That person will then spread that little bit of gossip they overheard. Even if they have no clue, they still may spread that little bit of gossip, and someone they share it with just might be a customer.

That's my 2 cents worth anyway :p
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Just because you cannot quantify something does not mean it does not exist. I agree that word of mouth is a very powerful force, it always was, but it spreads wider and faster these days due to the Internet and social media. That just makes it even more non nonsensical to believe you can shut down dissatisfaction by closing a thread in one forum.

You also do not need to loose all your customers to go out of business, if enough leave that you make a profit but not enough to cover your overheads and the writing is on the wall. Sadly as companies get closer to that wall they usually try to close down any criticism rather then putting their hands up, admitting they were wrong and trying to change for the better.
 
K

Kendall R. Sears

New-Bee
Chris said:
You and I have had some discussion on this. Respect for others talents and efforts, and I agree. Does Kendall agree as well?

Whatever you're working on now, I wish you the best with.

By the way, we'd sure love to see what you could come up with by way of LAMH presets for a quality effort such as our House Cat. Or how bout our Big Cat... that one could use your talents to create some presets for. Saiyaness has done a superb job for the House Cat, don't you think?

Thank you so much for chiming in Alessandro. Drop by any time. Mean that.
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I'm trying to stay away from this.

FOR THE RECORD: I have a policy to NEVER publicly deride another person's work. It is what it is. If I have negative criticisms of any works, they will stay private. If I compare works/products I endeavor to only say which one I feel is "better".

I did not know about this subject until it was pointed out to me that I had been reported to somehow have magically managed to obtain enough power to dictate to Daz what they should do. TBH, it is likely that Daz doesn't really even realize that I exist other than as Alessandro's shadow.

Kendall
 
LisaB

LisaB

HW3D Vice President & Queen Bee
Staff member
Co-Founder
Alessandro said:
Since my name came around let me tell you that your assumptions and conspiracy theories are all wrong. I don't care at all about competition, nor I do my work to seek any kind of validation from users; last thing I'd do is asking a store to remove someone else products because they compete with mine. And stay assured that if one would even try that, DAZ would kindly show them the door, as it is supposed to be if you ask me.
About the game "wh0's the best animal modeler" I will leave that up to you and those that have the time and energy to play it. I just find it unfair to mock the ones that support or like competition better: regardless how biased one could be, else work and opinion should always be respected.
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Nice to see you here, Alessandro!

Of course we have the utmost respect for what you do and do so well. I have been following you on Facebook where I get to see what you're working on next. Your renders are just incredibly realistic and I've "liked" many of them.

We are super excited over the LAMH results we are getting on the House Cat. Thanks for working to continually improve LAMH so it's available to more people.

Jennifer Blake said:
Hey everyone! :)
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Hiya! ;)
 
JOdel

JOdel

Dances with Bees
HW Honey Bear
Well, human nature is human nature. Even in the nicest of forums the utter *why*-ness of DAZ's behavior is going to have people looking under rocks. Rivalry between artists is the very *least* likely "why," but eventually someone will add it to the list. Silly as the concept is. (And it took several pages to do so.)
 
Hornet3d

Hornet3d

Wise
Kendall R. Sears said:
I'm trying to stay away from this.

FOR THE RECORD: I have a policy to NEVER publicly deride another person's work. It is what it is. If I have negative criticisms of any works, they will stay private. If I compare works/products I endeavor to only say which one I feel is "better".

I did not know about this subject until it was pointed out to me that I had been reported to somehow have magically managed to obtain enough power to dictate to Daz what they should do. TBH, it is likely that Daz doesn't really even realize that I exist other than as Alessandro's shadow.

Kendall
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Once again I think that is a very fair approach and I am glad you have taken the time to put your side. It is a very personal view but I honestly don't think Daz need to be dictated to in this instance they are far to capable on their own to need any assistance history alone suggests that is the case. It is a shame that innocent victims on both sides are dragged into the fallout.
 
E

eclark1894

Visionary
Alisa said:
Well, that is a shame, and I hope it's not the case, as I anyone who's seen LAMH sees your name on it, too, so therefore you've clearly played a role in that product. Thank you :)
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Since I have heard of LAMH before, still I've always thought of it as a DS product. Does LAMH work in Poser?
 
K

Kendall R. Sears

New-Bee
eclark1894 said:
Since I have heard of LAMH before, still I've always thought of it as a DS product. Does LAMH work in Poser?
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It is a DS product for the moment. I doubt that it will ever directly support Poser as a part of the Poser UI/Workflow, but I intend to create Poser compatible output from it at some point. The market and interest for Poser just never materialized.

Kendall
 
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