Official Announcement: DAZ terminates agreement to publish HiveWire 3D animals!

[Hornet3d]

Wow John. I didn't know about all this. I'm sorry to hear such news. It would appear a trend is going on here, seeing that we've both experienced a similar situation.

Once we got the couple of emails back from DAZ that they weren't happy by my announcement post, Lisa responded back in email. I followed it up a several days after with a couple of phone calls and text messages. Then it went dark for a week, and we heard nothing back. Then... boom! It was over.

My thought is that they weighed out the pros and cons, and the cons won. I believe they see this as a casualty of doing business, and that's all. I think in their minds folks will air their thoughts and feelings about it for a week or two, and then move on. DAZ knows that only a portion of their buying audience ever visits the forums, so with that data behind them, they simply accept a bit of fall out as part of the deal, or in our cases... no deal.

It's only the few (like those of us here) that are deep into this stuff that will bare the affects of all this. Artists that care about our content, folks that care about a perceived injustice, and those that were hopeful for a joint venture.

Having said this, I know Lisa, myself, and the HiveWire team, and many passionate people will not forget this so easily. All this does is amp up our drive to find ways to make things happen, make improvements, and move forward with an injection of Hulk blood into our collective muse!

While you are right that only a small proportion of their buying audience ever visits their forums, something not unique to Daz, I think they are taking a gamble here. Each time something like this happens the number of people who decide not to spend their money at Daz grows and each time that happens Daz losses potential revenue and the vendors there miss out on potential sales. The responses to the original announcement only goes to show there is already a fair number of people in the 'I won't buy camp' and here the low participation on forums works in the opposite fashion, these are just the ones stating publicly that they won't shop.

This fiasco will do noting to decrease the group and I suspect the membership will continue to grow. There has to be a limit to how big this group gets is before it impacts the bottom line.

I am annoyed at that this happen because it is unfair, I am angry that your trust, despite the past, was rewarded in this manner and I am dismayed that the effort expended on this would have been better spent on what Hivewire do best, building a community of 3D artist who can get on well together, use the same products the irrespective of their software choice, and have some really good discussions on an adult level That is no easy task and despite this setback the whole team should be proud and at this low point should understand and take pride in what the have achieved. I certainly have learnt so much more in the short time I have been here than I have in the ten years before. It is so much easier to see another's point of view when it is presented in a respectful manner and when you know that this is their genuine beliefs rather than working to some perverse hidden agenda.

If there is a plus to this it is your increased passion in making the Hivewire venture, I will certainly be supporting the team wherever I can, even to the point of spending what I monies I can (remembering I am an aging pensioner).

 

[Glitterati3D]

Nice outfit

Thank you!

 

[Glitterati3D]

I spent years avoiding the news or barely reading it because it was just so stressful. Everything in the news was bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. Nothing good either never happened or was never covered. After all, if it was something I really needed to know about, it would most likely be discussed at work. If something important was going on ... like an incoming snow storm or something important that would impact me, I'd check it out. But other than that, I didn't bother keeping up with all the stabbings and shootings or threats of annihilation. I would read Mother Nature Network and Treehugger a few times a week, since they both cover primarily "environmental news, advice on sustainable living, conservation and social responsibility." But they also then to promote hope.

So, I was blissfully unaware of many things that had others cowering under their beds.

Until the current administration that is. Surprisingly, several of my coworkers now take the approach of avoiding the news ... specifically anything about the current administration. But me? I can't resist the train wreck. But because the current administration also threatens those things that are very important to me (environment, human rights, conservation, social responsibility, blah, blah, blah), rarely a day goes by when I don't read everything I can find about what's going on.

Anywhooo ... I really do try not to mention politics in my posts, but this particular situation was just sooo much like what's going on in that little house in the swamp.

Same here, Satira. I get up every morning reading the news, cringing, thinking......what fresh hell does today bring.....

 

[Bonnie2001]

I believe they see this as a casualty of doing business, and that's all.

That's all well and good, but what about all the time and effort you must have put in getting your products ready for the DAZ store, for it then to be discarded? How many hours did you spend getting everything ready?

 

[Pendraia]

Stezza!!! Is that Auntie Jack in your avatar??? LOL.
I'll rip your ** arms off!!! Heh.

yep...

 

[Jakiblue]

I can still sing that theme tune....man, I'm old.

 

[Pendraia]

Me too...

 

[Jennifer Blake]

Hey everyone!

 

[Chris]

Since my name came around let me tell you that your assumptions and conspiracy theories are all wrong. I don't care at all about competition, nor I do my work to seek any kind of validation from users; last thing I'd do is asking a store to remove someone else products because they compete with mine. And stay assured that if one would even try that, DAZ would kindly show them the door, as it is supposed to be if you ask me.
About the game "wh0's the best animal modeler" I will leave that up to you and those that have the time and energy to play it. I just find it unfair to mock the ones that support or like competition better: regardless how biased one could be, else work and opinion should always be respected.

You and I have had some discussion on this. Respect for others talents and efforts, and I agree. Does Kendall agree as well?

Whatever you're working on now, I wish you the best with.

By the way, we'd sure love to see what you could come up with by way of LAMH presets for a quality effort such as our House Cat. Or how bout our Big Cat... that one could use your talents to create some presets for. Saiyaness has done a superb job for the House Cat, don't you think?

Thank you so much for chiming in Alessandro. Drop by any time. Mean that.

 

[Chris]

That's all well and good, but what about all the time and effort you must have put in getting your products ready for the DAZ store, for it then to be discarded? How many hours did you spend getting everything ready?

Yeah, lots!

The mind share and opportunity cost as well.

 

[Chris]

Hey everyone!

Hey... back at cha.

 

[Alisa]

Since my name came around let me tell you that your assumptions and conspiracy theories are all wrong. I don't care at all about competition, nor I do my work to seek any kind of validation from users; last thing I'd do is asking a store to remove someone else products because they compete with mine. And stay assured that if one would even try that, DAZ would kindly show them the door, as it is supposed to be if you ask me.
About the game "wh0's the best animal modeler" I will leave that up to you and those that have the time and energy to play it. I just find it unfair to mock the ones that support or like competition better: regardless how biased one could be, else work and opinion should always be respected.

Ha! Chris posted a reply as I was writing this, but I 'll comment anyway:

Alessandro, thanks for chiming in here and making this clear - it's really appreciated! I know there's been quite a bit of speculation, but I don't believe any of the HW team thinks that you or any other of the talented DAZ PAs are responsible for this decision being made. I think it's human nature to talk about "oh, I think THIS is the best" and "no, THIS is the best". Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and what one person likes "best" is not necessarily what another likes "best".

There is room in all our Runtimes for many people's products, just as there is room for Poser AND for DAZ Studio in our arsenals! Variety is important to customers!

I have a number of your animals, and others in my wishlist over at DAZ. Thank you for sharing your many talents with the 3D World !

And thank you for LAMH, by the way, as well as for creating the free player so people can create and others can use cool hair/fur in DS!

I seem to recall folks mentioning there was talk of you doing a version for Poser, and I know that Poser users would love that! If DAZ didn't want to sell it, I know we would . As we'd love any presets for our Animals, as Chris said.

That's all well and good, but what about all the time and effort you must have put in getting your products ready for the DAZ store, for it then to be discarded? How many hours did you spend getting everything ready?

Yeah, lots!

The mind share and opportunity cost as well.

Indeed! An awful lot of work is put in behind the scenes by all of us to get every new HW Product out the door - Chris, Lisa, Paul and myself, any CAs like the awesome Laurie (CWRW) who collaborate with us, the beta and QAV teams, and others. Part of that group worked on this effort to move the animals to DAZ.

As noted earlier, Bonnie, some of that will not be completely wasted, as the products will be updated her, though it is going to involve a bit more work on the part of a few of us to redo things and get the updates in our store.

 

[Novica]

Thank you so much for creating an account to share this. Your support means a lot to us.

to the

Thank you so much, to everyone. It's very sweet.

 

[Steve.M]

I understood the reasons for moving the animals to Daz, sorry that DAZ backed out of the deal.
Not much else I can say/do, apart from make purchase of (a license for) the HW animals from this store.

 

[Hornet3d]

MHAHAHAHA did someone mention a Zoot Suit?

View attachment 28320

Nope, damned if I can see a difference.

 

[Dylan]

It's a real shame this happened. So much work and preparation put in by the team here, only to have the rug pulled from under them. I guess life will go on here and it's DAZ's loss at the end of the day.

 

[Novica]

...and then move on. DAZ knows that only a portion of their buying audience ever visits the forums, so with that data behind them, they simply accept a bit of fall out as part of the deal, or in our cases... no deal.

It's only the few (like those of us here) that are deep into this stuff that will bear the affects of all this.

Well, in those forums, when that "only a small part of buyers visit the forums" logic gets used, I smile and think "Yeah, but if even a small part of THAT small part is your biggest spenders or consistent buyers, then you might want to listen to what they say." It's such a flawed logic. They should compare spending of the two groups. But what this means for you is many consistent purchasers saw the thread, and take heart, Google searches call up forum threads all the time, so that closed one will see quite a bit of action and direct people here. If for any reason it gets removed (which I doubt it) then Google will pick up this thread. So you're covered.

I haven't gotten through all the pages of this thread yet, so it may have been covered- but if people bought the cats from Daz, when you do updated things for them, are you going to support the Daz purchases since they supported you? I mentioned you in my Art Studio thread (deliberately, so folks who weren't visiting the thread out in the Commons would get a heads up) and getting continued support was brought up by some thread regulars, also members here. I think it would be a good idea to do that, not sure how you would know who bought from there.

 

[Hornet3d]

Since my name came around let me tell you that your assumptions and conspiracy theories are all wrong. I don't care at all about competition, nor I do my work to seek any kind of validation from users; last thing I'd do is asking a store to remove someone else products because they compete with mine. And stay assured that if one would even try that, DAZ would kindly show them the door, as it is supposed to be if you ask me.
About the game "wh0's the best animal modeler" I will leave that up to you and those that have the time and energy to play it. I just find it unfair to mock the ones that support or like competition better: regardless how biased one could be, else work and opinion should always be respected.

Welcome Alessandro and thank you for the information. In the absence of hard fact it is human nature to imagine, particularly if you are an artist as imagination seems to be a basic requirement. That does not make the such comments factual or right so I find your post of benefit, from what you have said it will make little difference but I happen to agree with your standpoint.

 

[Hornet3d]

Well, in those forums, when that "only a small part of buyers visit the forums" logic gets used, I smile and think "Yeah, but if even a small part of THAT small part is your biggest spenders or consistent buyers, then you might want to listen to what they say." It's such a flawed logic. They should compare spending of the two groups. But what this means for you is many consistent purchasers saw the thread, and take heart, Google searches call up forum threads all the time, so that closed one will see quite a bit of action and direct people here. If for any reason it gets removed (which I doubt it) then Google will pick up this thread. So you're covered.

I haven't gotten through all the pages of this thread yet, so it may have been covered- but if people bought the cats from Daz, when you do updated things for them, are you going to support the Daz purchases since they supported you? I mentioned you in my Art Studio thread (deliberately, so folks who weren't visiting the thread out in the Commons would get a heads up) and getting continued support was brought up by some thread regulars, also members here. I think it would be a good idea to do that, not sure how you would know who bought from there.

A point well made, if you are going to upset anyone it would be wise to at least have some understanding of the on going impact and just how much custom they bring (or maybe did bring)

I cannot answer to question correctly as I am not one of the team but I am sure one of the team will before long. As a paying customer who has been a while I can say that Hivewire are usually extremely supportive they even supported me when I was being very negative in the thread preceeding this one. I also think that fact they go out of their way to support both DS and Poser says a lot about them and their intent.

 

[Alisa]

Nope, damned if I can see a difference.

LOL!!

I haven't gotten through all the pages of this thread yet, so it may have been covered- but if people bought the cats from Daz, when you do updated things for them, are you going to support the Daz purchases since they supported you? I mentioned you in my Art Studio thread (deliberately, so folks who weren't visiting the thread out in the Commons would get a heads up) and getting continued support was brought up by some thread regulars, also members here. I think it would be a good idea to do that, not sure how you would know who bought from there.

Yes, we haven't gotten the details down yet, but we will accomodate them.