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What is so special about Genesis?

Janet

Janet

Dances with Bees
Contributing Artist
I hope it's okay to post this but this really has me stumped. What is so special about that figure? I mean it's just another model right? Apparently DAZ sunk a bunch of money into the development of it but for what? I don't do people renders often haven't upgraded since Victoria 4. If I had to do one now I'd use Dawn.
 
Alisa

Alisa

RETIRED HW3D QAV Director (QAV Queen Bee)
Staff member
QAV-BEE
I moved this to the Meadow :)

To me, the original Genesis was very cool when it came out because it could be male or female. Then they switched to different male/female models. Weight-mapping is part of the attraction, but our figures (and some others) are also weight-mapped.

I think a lot is personal preference, though. Different people like different stuff :). Personally, I don't see anything more special about the current Genesis figures (though I don't hate them) than I see with the HW figures.
 
E

eclark1894

Visionary
Janet said:
I hope it's okay to post this but this really has me stumped. What is so special about that figure? I mean it's just another model right? Apparently DAZ sunk a bunch of money into the development of it but for what? I don't do people renders often haven't upgraded since Victoria 4. If I had to do one now I'd use Dawn.
Click to expand...
Amazingly, while I have never used Genesis before, (apart from introduction to Studio) I've never bad mouthed the figure. I can't, I've never used it. My biggest gripe about it was that it was originally, (and technically, still is,) unavailable in Poser as a native figure. Frankly, I wouldn't use Dawn either if she weren't Poser native.
 
Willowisp

Willowisp

Adventurous
Genesis isn't just a figure, it's a system deeply encoded in the software. It's what makes Autofit work, among other things. Which is why it will never be fully compatible with Poser unless they completely rewrite Poser. At least that's how I understand it from all the discussions I've seen over the years.
 
Miss B

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Like Alisa, I too liked the original Genesis because it could be either male or female, and I still have my DS 4.0 Pro and V5/M5 installed. I don't hate Genesis as a figure, my problem is, every piece of content for the newer versions are just updates of content created for the original Genesis, and in some cases, such as the MFD, originally created for generation 3 & 4 characters.

How many times can you buy the same piece of clothing, just so you can use it in the newer version of DS. That's part of the reason I turned back to Poser when Dawn came out, after 8+ years and 3 versions of DS.
 
Rae134

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
That's the beauty of Auto-fit Miss B, you don't need to update the clothing if you already have it :D (in most cases)

But I hate when I bought something when I first started (approx 1.5-2 years ago) and end up buying it again because I forgot I had it :p
 
Miss B

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
I liked AutoFit when I used it on V5 and M5, but I never got into the newer versions of Genesis, so didn't know it would work as well in those cases.
 
daywalker03

daywalker03

Eager
Miss B said:
I liked AutoFit when I used it on V5 and M5, but I never got into the newer versions of Genesis, so didn't know it would work as well in those cases.
Click to expand...

A lot of of it is dependent on whether or not the creator of a given outfit provides a decent selection of morph support in the clothing; I've seen stuff done in the early run of ech version that had trouble with extreme shape changes because it didn't have support for one of the figures or morph sets that were used to create someone's custom figure and it clung to the figure like plastic wrap.
 
Rae134

Rae134

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
Boots are pretty easy to fix, I just hide the feet :p (if its major mangled then of course that won't help :D)
 
Miss B

Miss B

Drawing Life 1 Pixel at a Time
CV-BEE
Oh true. I used to do that way back with a set I had for Vicky 3. I'm not sure vendors created foot poses for their footwear back then, so the only way I could get her to wear them, was to hide her feet.
 
Satira Capriccio

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
As Willowisp said, Genesis is a software system that is really more about DS than the Genesis figure. One of the big selling points when Genesis first came out was that it was a single mesh that could be anything ... male, female, child, monster ... whatever. Later, DAZ rethought it and the next version was again separate male and female figures. Though I was still visiting the DAZ forums when Genesis 2 came out, I had long given up on being able to use Genesis in Poser. But, I remember how upset DS users were that DAZ reverted back to male and female figures. Unless I'm wrong (and I could very well be), PAs found creating clothing to work as male or female difficult. But then, you can always get as many stories as to why something doesn't work as there are content creators :wink:

What a lot of DS users don't realize ... at least those who haven't found HiveWire ... is that the DS version of Dawn is also designed for that system. So what you can do with the Genesis figure in DS 4 (3 too?), you can do with HiveWire Dawn, Dusk, & Baby Luna DS versions.

Note ... I've no direct experience with Dawn in DS, so I'm basing that statement on what DS users have said here at HiveWire. But I've seen Pen do some fabulous things with Dawn in DS.

DAZ attempted to make the Genesis figure usable in Poser through the use of DSON. However, DSON never worked very well for many / most? of us Poser users. Which meant we either had to switch to DS (which hates me with a passion) or be content with the old technology of V4 and M4.

It took a itty bitty company of a handful of people who had a fantastic vision of bridging that horrible DS / Poser divide to do what we'd been told couldn't be done. Which was ... create a weight mapped figure fully usable in both DS and Poser. (and ... to make it possible for DS users and Poser users to once again share our love of and passion with 3D with each other)
 
Pendraia

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
There are two parts to Genesis.

First there are the figures that are called Genesis and what makes them so good is the second part of the equation which is the Genesis Platform.

I'd like to point out that the Hivewire figures in DS also use this platform.

The platform is what allows autofit and clones to work. It also allows for alternate uv's to be created which is what allows textures for other characters to be created.

This system when launched with the original genesis allowed users to leverage all of the older content they had. Which was an amazing step forward but Daz quickly worked out that this impacted on sales and future versions of Genesis charged for the tools to do this whereas the original version came with autofit and alternate uv's.

The figures themselves are good but even the ds users recognise that they arent perfect and to be honest all figures have imperfections of some sort...which is why newer versions are released as technology improves.

One of the biggest issues for the hivewire figures in DS imho is that they didnt initially come with things such as templates and clones and due to copyright cant leverage older content without knowing how to create them.
 
Bonnie2001

Bonnie2001

Extraordinary
The newer Genesis has higher mesh density, and in all the right places like the head, body joints etc. Things like wrinkles and frown lines can be added directly on the mesh without the need for bump maps. Shame it doesn't work in Poser. :(
 
Pendraia

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
Hey Bonnie, are you referring to Genesis 8? I haven't used it yet but have read elsewhere that it is lower poly but has higher polys in certain areas. How many active points are there in zbrush? DO you know? Dawn is around 40000. When I boot up my computer later I'll check genesis 3 which I'm fairly certain is lower poly.
 
Bonnie2001

Bonnie2001

Extraordinary
Pen, Genesis 8 is 862 polys less than G7, but they concentrated them in the right areas. Generally speaking, lower poly count should give better bends with less risk of crunching up on the inner parts of bends. Also the morphs seem to merge or blend better now, looking more natural to me.
That said and with computers and software able to handle high poly counts, why they don't just add more polys is a mystery. We could always decimate for game use if we wanted to.
 
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Pendraia

Pendraia

Sage
Contributing Artist
The people who posted about the low poly count were saying that daz is aiming the more recent versions of Genesis at the game designer market. So that would make sense.
 
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