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What is a "Slut Dress"?

Me195

Extraordinary
I am not sure I quite understand that, but if aimed at my comment I can only say it is based on what I have seen in my own country. Outside of that, the information on the occurrence and attitude towards rape for different parts of the world is easy to find.

That said it was rather reaction to the suggestion that men are hard done by. Whenever you read any of my posts you have to keep in mind I have a very strange outlook on life, for example, the fact that we pay our entertainers and sports people (male of female) vastly more than those that care for others and save lives seem morally wrong to me, so as you see a very strange outlook.

If my posts are upsetting to anyone I am more than happy to have them removed.

It was not aimed at your post. It was aimed at complaining about a behavior while displaying that exact same behavior. I don't particularly care for that type of thing whether I agree with the opinions being expressed or not.

On the subject of your post, I believe that grooming rape gangs are a terrible thing, and law enforcement officers, politicians and activist groups should stop protecting them. Your outlook on life is not so strange.
 

eclark1894

Visionary
I am not sure I quite understand that, but if aimed at my comment I can only say it is based on what I have seen in my own country. Outside of that, the information on the occurrence and attitude towards rape for different parts of the world is easy to find.

That said it was rather reaction to the suggestion that men are hard done by. Whenever you read any of my posts you have to keep in mind I have a very strange outlook on life, for example, the fact that we pay our entertainers and sports people (male of female) vastly more than those that care for others and save lives seem morally wrong to me, so as you see a very strange outlook.

If my posts are upsetting to anyone I am more than happy to have them removed.
You're not upsetting me at all. But as Me195 points out "identity politics" has reared it's ugly head and I just don't want to get involved.
 

agentunawares

Member
Contributing Artist
In real life violence against men or women is equally despicable. However, in the fiction of all available media, Violence against women and children is considered more cringeworthy.

It certainly is considered that way. Frankly, my gut reaction is to be more bothered by women getting hurt and it probably always will be. But I recognize that this is sexist.

And the idea that depicting a murdered woman is worse than depicting a murdered man specifically because more women get harmed by men than men by women, even though:

men kill more men than women,

women kill more men than women,

and men in general are just killed more on every continent,

is thoroughly messed up, because it's both sexist to men to imply their lives matter less than womens', and sexist to women to imply they need more protection from fictional depictions of something that happens to them less.

I'm bowing out too.
 

quietrob

Extraordinary
It certainly is considered that way. Frankly, my gut reaction is to be more bothered by women getting hurt and it probably always will be. But I recognize that this is sexist.

it's both sexist to men to imply their lives matter less than womens', and sexist to women to imply they need more protection from fictional depictions of something that happens to them less.

I'm bowing out too.

State your views then run for the hills? Curtail debate by free thinking people?

Seriously? Surprising.

Still, the OP ran for the hills first due to the digression of the thread so I suppose you're not alone.
 

LisaB

HW3D Vice President & Queen Bee
Staff member
Co-Founder
This is an opportunity to do things differently ... to have discussions that lead to a better understanding of how other people see an issue so that while we may not agree, we can at least understand the why's.

There isn't ONE thing that can be pinpointed as "the problem" - there are many overlapping things. Surely we can have an adult discussion here without resorting to barbs.
 

agentunawares

Member
Contributing Artist
State your views then run for the hills? Curtail debate by free thinking people?

Seriously? Surprising.

Still, the OP ran for the hills first due to the digression of the thread so I suppose you're not alone.

I'm not curtailing debate, people can still discuss whatever they want even things that I said. This includes disagreeing with me. I find these discussions so very often turn nasty that I will not contribute to it on this forum. If I actually debate here then I will be unable to stop. I know this, so I choose to walk away. The fact that you immediately said I will stop others from speaking by not speaking on a subject myself only contributes to this decision being the obviously correct one.
 

Satira Capriccio

Renowned
CV-BEE
Contributing Artist
I'm still scratching my head at "identity politics." It's one of those words/phrases I find annoying since it ends up excluding people from a conversation and can make them feel like idiots because they don't understand the meaning. I know I'm not stupid, so I don't feel like an idiot. But I do feel excluded from this part of the discussion because I don't understand the phrase "identity politics" and consequently, I have no idea why that phrase is being invoked.

Everyone has different experiences, which results in us perceiving things rather differently. As a woman, I will be less aware of the abuse, violence, and unfair treatment men experience, while I will be more aware ... even perhaps overly aware ... of the abuse, violence, and unfair treatment women experience. I may also have a harder time feeling a man is justified in complaining about being mistreated or discriminated against. Even though, I know full well it happens. I also know race, religion, and sexual orientation increases the chance of a man being mistreated or discriminated against ... just as it increases the chance of a woman being mistreated or discriminated against.

I'm not going to "have my eyes opened ... be WOKE (a word I hate) ... unless those of you who see things differently than I do ... speak up. Don't just throw buzz words around (like woke), but take a chance on us that we can have a discussion without grabbing our rakes and pitchforks.


The cool thing about HiveWire 3D is that we CAN have discussions like this one. Things might get touchy, as they have with other discussions, but most of us here are able to step back, take a deep breath, and re-engage as adults who share a passion about art/3D art and respect this little hole in the wall, and even ... as unlikely as it may seem ... are usually able to respect each other :D

Personally, I'm not crazy about the term slut, whether it's applied to a type of clothing or 3D clothing or people, and I cringe every time I see the title "what is a slut dress." For the record, I'm also not crazy about the word bitch, unless you're referring to a female dog, and even then I'd rather call her a female dog. I'm really not crazy about girls and women who call each other slut or bitch when what they mean is girlfriend. If the intention is to shock those of us from a different generation ... well it succeeds, ok?


It's been a long day testing code, so please excuse me for rambling :confused:
 

eclark1894

Visionary
State your views then run for the hills? Curtail debate by free thinking people?

Seriously? Surprising.

Still, the OP ran for the hills first due to the digression of the thread so I suppose you're not alone.

You know, I so often write things which apparently no one really reads, and then later on statements or intentions are made and attributed to me. I never said these things, and quite often, if you would actually just go back and read what I actually did say, both my statements and intentions are crystal clear.

I "ran for the hills" because the last time I didn't, I actually tried to play peacemaker. I was trying to ratchet down the tone of the thread by telling both sides to just "Let it go" and that every perceived slight didn't need a response. This was back in the Thread where DAZ pulled out of the agreement with Hivewire to sell the Hivewire animals. I should have learned my lesson then. But I did learn a very valuable one. Later.
 

caisson

Admirable
Contributing Artist
@eclark1894 - nope; trying to make the point that it is much less common. Look, you created a provocatively titled thread (I don't believe that anyone could be unaware that the word 'slut' is used as a slur against women), then followed it up with what I would call whataboutery. Surely you can't be surprised to be called on it ;)

@agentunawares - to be clear: neither. What I am saying is that depicting violence against women in digital props being sold in an online marketplace (which is what I assume you are referring to) should be a cause for concern due to the gendered violence that exists in real life. Digital props have no context; the context is provided by the end user. The marketplace concerned would be clearly aware that a selling a digital prop of a mutilated woman would be likely to cause them problems as their business could then be accused of pandering to & fuelling fantasies of violence against women. A digital prop of a mutilated male would be unlikely to draw the same accusations as the level of gendered violence towards men is vastly different. I do not intend to imply that either is more or less serious, or more or less acceptable than the other.

To try to be clearer: men as a group have institutional power that women as a group do not. Recognising that male violence against women is different in its nature due to that power imbalance does not in any way trivialise or downgrade any other form of violence; it's not a competition.

Anyway, I'm hoping that makes my position more understandable!

===========================

I had to go look up identity politics - apparently, it's "a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics". Hmm. Maybe the key word there is 'exclusive' because otherwise it sounds like something every group does. Personally I'm a white, straight, middle-aged man so I try to remember that I carry an awful lot of privilege around with me; not quite top of the tree though as I am working class (or to be properly modern about it, a member of the Precariat). While I find it uncomfortable when my own opinions or beliefs are challenged I try to remember that my brain is a muscle & it could really use the exercise :)
 

agentunawares

Member
Contributing Artist
@caisson, I see, you're saying that you think it is less likely people have fantasies about killing men for being men than for killing women for being women, and this causes people to associate additional baggage with depictions of women being harmed.
 

eclark1894

Visionary
@eclark1894 - nope; trying to make the point that it is much less common. Look, you created a provocatively titled thread (I don't believe that anyone could be unaware that the word 'slut' is used as a slur against women), then followed it up with what I would call whataboutery. Surely you can't be surprised to be called on it ;)
You see, this is why I asked that the thread be locked. I used to have some respect for you, caisson. Consider that past tense. Once again, ANYONE who has any questions about my intentions in this thread only has to actually read (assuming you have the ability to do so) the first three posts.

Screw this.
 

quietrob

Extraordinary
You see, this is why I asked that the thread be locked. I used to have some respect for you, caisson. Consider that past tense. Once again, ANYONE who has any questions about my intentions in this thread only has to actually read (assuming you have the ability to do so) the first three posts.

Screw this.
"Diamond in the back
Sunroof top,
digging the scene
with a gangster lean."

Gangsta Whitewalls, TV antenna in the back.

The William Devaughn Version, Not the Curtis Mayfield.

Thank goodness for you, Earl. You keep things lively.
 

caisson

Admirable
Contributing Artist
@agentunawares - it’s not exactly what I’m saying, but it’s close enough that I’m happy to leave things there.

@eclark1894 - oh, I don’t think you had any malicious intent but you knew you were courting controversy. Don’t you think that maybe acknowledging the question was inappropriate & a bit insensitive would be a good way to wind down the thread?

@quietrob - sweet! had to go dig out the Massive Attack cover version :)
 
D

Deleted member 325

Guest
@caisson I offer, mostly in the hopes of fomenting greater understanding among humanity, that language often is seen and understood differently to different people. It is possible that he may not have considered the title controversial at the time of posting. I get from reading through the thread that certainly it was not intended as inappropriate or insensitive. While I certainly do understand how many can see it that way and might have taken it that way, I too have been in enough social situations where I said or asked something, that while innocent to me and not meant to start outrage, resulted in massive arguments. Certainly, continuing to insist that acknowledgement of a wrong is needed is not helping, and if no wrong was intended is only going to further drag things down and seem like a personal attack to the person it is aimed at - which I do not think is your intent.

My point is, we all have differing levels of social development and interaction. This is especially true when considering the members of the forum can also come from vastly differing parts of the world with different social views and outlooks. We all also, by very human nature, bring our own baggage with us on every interaction and into everything we read. It is not always fair to keep trying to force another to claim our baggage when they did not intend to.

Heck, I initially clicked on this thread because I was wondering the answer to that question myself - though I have my own opinions, I did wonder if there was some item out there in the community that was used as a specific reference. I do not think it was an unreasonable or offensive question to have asked given the term does pop up in a number of conversations across various 3D forums.
 

tparo

Engaged
QAV-BEE
Heck, I initially clicked on this thread because I was wondering the answer to that question myself - though I have my own opinions, I did wonder if there was some item out there in the community that was used as a specific reference. I do not think it was an unreasonable or offensive question to have asked given the term does pop up in a number of conversations across various 3D forums.

Just because the term is used doesn't mean it should be used.
 
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